Your thoughts- BFing in Public Situation

m+j · September 2010

So a situation came up at my husband's office and he asked for my thoughts as an ebf and a new mom. I gave him my opinion but thought I would post the situation here and see what the consensus was, strictly out of curiosity.

So my husband is a partner at a law firm that employs several associates. The firm is on the smaller side, employing about 30 people total. They see about 50 potential new clients a day for consultations. One male associate was having a consultation with a potential new client who also happened to be a new mom to a 3 month old baby. The associate welcomed the new mom into his personal office, along with her baby. For what it's worth, the associate is a younger, single male with no children. While he was discussing their fees and the firm's services the mom starts to breastfeed the baby. She did not have a cover/hooter hider/udder cover, she just had a wrap type shirt that she moved to the side. The associate felt uncomfortable and asked if the mother could step out of the office or wait to breastfeed until after the consultation was complete. The mother said she was offended and left the firm, later calling to complain to my husband that his associate was insensitive and rude and should have more respect for new mothres, especially breastfeeding mothers.

When confronted, the associate said that he didn't want her breastfeeding the baby in his office when it was just the two of him because (a) he felt uncomfortable and (b) it was distracting to him.

What are your thoughts on this? Should the new mom have been accomodated in his office or was the associate's request acceptable?

[Deleted User] · September 2010

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nopegoat · September 2010

I have NIP and don't have a problem with that, but this is kind of a weird situation... I kind of see both sides. I think if she would have been covered up and he asked her to step outside or wait then he would have been kind of out of line... but at the same time I see her side. She wasn't doing anything sexual, but was just trying to feed her baby...

That's a tough one!

BLykins16 · September 2010

I've BF in public before, but I used a blanket to cover myself and I didn't do it during a meeting. I think if she wanted to BF during the meeting, she should have asked if it was okay with him first. Since she didn't ask and just started BFing, he could have told her that he would leave the room so she could feed the baby and he would come back after she was finished. I don't think he was being rude, but that's how I think he could have handled it without upsetting the new mom.

ashlee1120 · September 2010

They should look into the laws of that state. In Oklahoma you have the right to breastfeed anywhere you have the right to be. I would have personally had a cover but thats just me.

CamFam · September 2010

Hmmm, I can see both sides. I bf in public, but use a blanket or udder cover and try to remain discreet. I know people feel uncomfortable around me, but that is life.

I would never just whip out a boob in an office with only another male present. Ever. That would put him in a difficult situation. Even my male OB brings in a female nurse when he does breast exams with me.

Maybe the associate could have said, "I see you need to nurse. I'll give you a few minutes. Prop open the door when you are ready to continue our meeting." And he would leave for a coffee/bathroom break.

Sometimes we get so used to our boobs becoming public property after the whole labor and delivery, doctor appointments, lactation consults that we forget the general public do not care to see this.

sweetadventure · September 2010

If he was uncomfortable, he should have left her in his office to feed her baby. After all, since he was the associate and she was the potential new client, it is up to him to make her comfortable. He didn't have to stay in there but he shouldn't have asked her to leave (where would she go?).

Quizzle · September 2010

I'd have been pretty uncomfortable whipping a boob out to breastfeed in that situation, too. I just.. I dunno. I have no problem with breastfeeding in public, but I think you can plan your kids feeding schedule a bit better. If we're going somewhere I'll feed DD before we go even if she doesn't act hungry just to top her off if the nursing schedule doesn't quite line up.

And honestly, I couldn't conduct business while breastfeeding. I need both hands to feed the baby since I have to support a boob since they're so heavy, and she's a NOISY eater.

I'd imagine he was also pretty flustered. Even the most savvy person may not think straight and think to leave their own office when that happens. In hindsight, sure, but at the time he probably felt a little trapped and afraid of an awkward situation.

tforpres · September 2010

I breastfeed my own 3 month old baby. When I must breastfeed in public I always use a cover-up. I think this mother was being inconsiderate. Even though breastfeeding is a natural process not everyone is comfortable with it and it is impolite to assume that everyone else needs to ignore their own feelings. I think it is particularly impolite in this situation since it took place in a very professional, formal environment. At the very least some more modesty is called for.

m+j · September 2010

Asking if he could leave the room would have been a good plan. I felt the same way you ladies do, I could see both sides. I haven't had to NIP yet, but I have no problems doing so. I definitely wouldn't do it in the privacy of someone's office, I would have asked to excuse myself and found another location.

I do know the associate and I wonder if he came across as a jerk just by the way he said it and by his overall demeanor. I guess I'll never know, but that was a concern I passed along to my husband. He's not always the most tactful person.

Violet_McPurpleson · September 2010

sweetadventure:
If he was uncomfortable, he should have left her in his office to feed her baby. After all, since he was the associate and she was the potential new client, it is up to him to make her comfortable. He didn't have to stay in there but he shouldn't have asked her to leave (where would she go?).

Exactly. I can see both sides, but I also don't understand being uncomfortable by a mom feeding her baby though I know many people are.

Bottom line is that she was with in her rights to nurse and he lost a client by asking her to leave.

monkski · September 2010

she totally should've asked if it was ok first. I'm all for NIP, but also sensitive to the fact that some people are uncomfortable with it and to not even give him the heads up is odd to me.

m+j · September 2010

I think he was uncomfortable for a number of reasons, one of which being the potential situation in puts him in should she claim he was sexually harassing her (or something simillar). Since they were in his private office, he was concerned that she may try to claim something. That never occurred to me when I first heard the story, but apparently he thought about it. Most of all though, he is a single, childless, young male who had never encountered a nursing mother in this close proximity. Right or wrong (and I honestly don't know how I feel), he was freaked out by it.

yogisunam · September 2010

I think the associate was out of line. She was the customer, and the customer is always right. If the associate was truly uncomfortable then he should have let her have his office and he stepped out to wait. That said, she probably could have given him a heads up.

KRISTA555 · September 2010

tforpres:
I breastfeed my own 3 month old baby. When I must breastfeed in public I always use a cover-up. I think this mother was being inconsiderate. Even though breastfeeding is a natural process not everyone is comfortable with it and it is impolite to assume that everyone else needs to ignore their own feelings. I think it is particularly impolite in this situation since it took place in a very professional, formal environment. At the very least some more modesty is called for.

this

MrsSR · September 2010

CamFam:

Hmmm, I can see both sides. I bf in public, but use a blanket or udder cover and try to remain discreet. I know people feel uncomfortable around me, but that is life.

I would never just whip out a boob in an office with only another male present. Ever. That would put him in a difficult situation. Even my male OB brings in a female nurse when he does breast exams with me.

Maybe the associate could have said, "I see you need to nurse. I'll give you a few minutes. Prop open the door when you are ready to continue our meeting." And he would leave for a coffee/bathroom break.

Sometimes we get so used to our boobs becoming public property after the whole labor and delivery, doctor appointments, lactation consults that we forget the general public do not care to see this.

I agree with this!

June2007 · September 2010

I am a EBF too, and did so for a year with DD#1. I feel that he should have told the women that he would give her some privacy and stepped out of his office, it would be less offensive that way. I do think she should have used a cover since she was having a direct conversation with a stranger in a professional setting.

PubStar09 · September 2010

sweetadventure:
If he was uncomfortable, he should have left her in his office to feed her baby. After all, since he was the associate and she was the potential new client, it is up to him to make her comfortable. He didn't have to stay in there but he shouldn't have asked her to leave (where would she go?).

I would agree with this.

I BF, and while I understand the law and BFer's passion for the law, I'm not comfortable with NIP. I mostly pump, so when we go out, DS has a bottle. I don't like the attention that NIP brings and I don't like to make other people uncomfortable either.

That being said, if I were the mom in this situation, I would have apologized and maybe left the room, asking if we could reschedule or if I could come back in 20 minutes after LO ate.

Angela814 · September 2010

I think even at 3 months it's not always possible to plan your child's feeding schedule.

I don't use a cover when I NIP, and it's never been an issue. I do however make sure to wear a shirt over a nursing tank because I'm not comfortable will my whole breast hanging out.

I think he handled it wrong. If I was in her situation, I would have gotten up to leave and would have crossed that firm off my list. If he was uncomfortable, he could have excused himself. The only way I think he was in the right is if her bfing somehow interfered with her ability to hold out her part of the conversation. If she was distracted, then she was wasting his time.

wednesday51 · September 2010

I do not think it was appropriate for her to do that--- at all. It doesn't matter what she was doing with her boob. It was still out. I get that it's a natural function, etc. but with all due respect... so is taking a dump. And both should be private. Just because it is "natural" does not mean you need to do it in public without a cover and assume others will think it is natural and beautiful and wonderful etc. too.

I would have been offended, too, if a woman assumed she could leave her breast hanging out in front of my husband and not even use a cover (how hard is that?). It's not as if your boobs are suddenly de-sexualized in the minds of men because they have a baby attached to them, as much as some women want to think they are.

In the interest of customer service, yes, he could have offered to let himself out the door. But she had to have seen how it might be weird to lock yourself in a guy's office and then whip out your boob without warning.

wednesday51 · September 2010

tforpres:
I breastfeed my own 3 month old baby. When I must breastfeed in public I always use a cover-up. I think this mother was being inconsiderate. Even though breastfeeding is a natural process not everyone is comfortable with it and it is impolite to assume that everyone else needs to ignore their own feelings. I think it is particularly impolite in this situation since it took place in a very professional, formal environment. At the very least some more modesty is called for.

exactly.

Discordia1030 · September 2010

I am completely pro NIP, with or without a cover, but to do it in a business meeting is unacceptable to me. I understand babies need to eat and most feed on demand, but the client should have said something beforehand rather then put the associate in that position. To me, its the same thing as him pulling out a sandwich during the meeting and just eating it, not offering any explanation such as "Do you mind if I eat, I missed lunch and my blood sugar is dropping." She is well within her right as a BF'ing mother to feed her child where ever she is, but she should have spoken up prior. I do agree with pp about the associate could have stepped out and such, but at the same time it was unfair for her to put him in the position.

mrs07c · September 2010

BLykins16:
I've BF in public before, but I used a blanket to cover myself and I didn't do it during a meeting. I think if she wanted to BF during the meeting, she should have asked if it was okay with him first. Since she didn't ask and just started BFing, he could have told her that he would leave the room so she could feed the baby and he would come back after she was finished. I don't think he was being rude, but that's how I think he could have handled it without upsetting the new mom.

I like this idea the best, but I cannot imagine going into a meeting and feeding like that- I'm uncomfortable even when I AM covered my mind races to LO pulling it off, is it a good latch, are people staring, etc

m+j · September 2010

I really like the idea of excusing himself so that she could have some privacy in his office, but in all honesty that never occurred to me until someone here mentioned it and I've had three days to think about this situation! In his defense, I'm sure he was so caught off guard that this never occurred to him either.

Thanks for your thoughts. Like I said, I don't think my husband is going to take any further action and I don't see this lady returning, so it's probably a non issue at this point (assuming it doesn't happen again in the future). I just wanted to get other perspectives.

Mrs.Cford · September 2010

What a strange lady, I am very comfortable bf'ing in public and I would never do that!

He should have excused himself, waited outside and told her to come and get him when she was finished. He could have chalked it up to privacy for her but I still would have billed her for the time. I bf on demand too but I know if it's almost time and I have something to do I will just feed her beforehand so it doesn't come up during!

jrolls79 · September 2010

m+j:

I think he was uncomfortable for a number of reasons, one of which being the potential situation in puts him in should she claim he was sexually harassing her (or something simillar). Since they were in his private office, he was concerned that she may try to claim something. That never occurred to me when I first heard the story, but apparently he thought about it. Most of all though, he is a single, childless, young male who had never encountered a nursing mother in this close proximity. Right or wrong (and I honestly don't know how I feel), he was freaked out by it.

I really don't understand why this matters. He is old enough to have finished law school so I am guessing he is old enough to understand that breasts are not just male playthings. As a law professional, I think he better get used to encountering people he may not have dealt with in his sheltered life. (criminals, for example. Or does he just deal with upstanding members of the community?)

I think he was way out of line. If he was worried about a sexual harrassment suit, then he should of excused himself or asked a femal employee to come in. He just lost the firm a client because he hasn't outgrown his frat boy days.

BearsMrs · September 2010

The associate could have found a place for her to nurse & met with her when she was finished. I think that he has the same right to be uncomfortable as she has to nurse.

AliciaCM · September 2010

sweetadventure:
If he was uncomfortable, he should have left her in his office to feed her baby. After all, since he was the associate and she was the potential new client, it is up to him to make her comfortable. He didn't have to stay in there but he shouldn't have asked her to leave (where would she go?).

This.

m+j · September 2010

kandjrolls2:
m+j:

I think he was uncomfortable for a number of reasons, one of which being the potential situation in puts him in should she claim he was sexually harassing her (or something simillar). Since they were in his private office, he was concerned that she may try to claim something. That never occurred to me when I first heard the story, but apparently he thought about it. Most of all though, he is a single, childless, young male who had never encountered a nursing mother in this close proximity. Right or wrong (and I honestly don't know how I feel), he was freaked out by it.

I really don't understand why this matters. He is old enough to have finished law school so I am guessing he is old enough to understand that breasts are not just male playthings. As a law professional, I think he better get used to encountering people he may not have dealt with in his sheltered life. (criminals, for example. Or does he just deal with upstanding members of the community?)

I think he was way out of line. If he was worried about a sexual harrassment suit, then he should of excused himself or asked a femal employee to come in. He just lost the firm a client because he hasn't outgrown his frat boy days.

I don't see why it matters either. That was his justification, not mine. ITA with you on that.

brittlandk · September 2010

ashlee1120:
They should look into the laws of that state. In Oklahoma you have the right to breastfeed anywhere you have the right to be. I would have personally had a cover but thats just me.

Not only this, but in my state, it's against the law to ask a nursing mother to cover up or stop; she can press charges for harassment.

I agree with all the PP's who say if he was uncomfortable, it would have been best for him to excuse himself.

m+j · September 2010

brittlandk:

ashlee1120:
They should look into the laws of that state. In Oklahoma you have the right to breastfeed anywhere you have the right to be. I would have personally had a cover but thats just me.

Not only this, but in my state, it's against the law to ask a nursing mother to cover up or stop; she can press charges for harassment.

I agree with all the PP's who say if he was uncomfortable, it would have been best for him to excuse himself.

I can understand this being the case in public, but surely this isn' t the same for a private establishment. It's my understanding that as a private establishment they have the right to refuse anyone service for whatever reason they want, right or wrong. I'm not justifying it, I'm just distinguishing between this type of behavior occurring out in the open and it occurring in a private office.

ETA: I stand corrected: Nevada law reads as follows-

NRS 201.232
Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a mother may breast feed her child in any public or private location where the mother is otherwise authorized to be, irrespective of whether the nipple of the mother's breast is uncovered during or incidental to the breastfeeding.

(Added to Nevada Revised Statutes by 1995, 126)

wifeandmama · September 2010

Angela814:
I think even at 3 months it's not always possible to plan your child's feeding schedule.
I don't use a cover when I NIP, and it's never been an issue. I do however make sure to wear a shirt over a nursing tank because I'm not comfortable will my whole breast hanging out.
I think he handled it wrong. If I was in her situation, I would have gotten up to leave and would have crossed that firm off my list. If he was uncomfortable, he could have excused himself. The only way I think he was in the right is if her bfing somehow interfered with her ability to hold out her part of the conversation. If she was distracted, then she was wasting his time.

My thoughts exactly!

And to the other poster who compared BF to "taking a dump" - you sound like a real idiot.

brittlandk · September 2010

m+j:
brittlandk:

ashlee1120:
They should look into the laws of that state. In Oklahoma you have the right to breastfeed anywhere you have the right to be. I would have personally had a cover but thats just me.

Not only this, but in my state, it's against the law to ask a nursing mother to cover up or stop; she can press charges for harassment.

I agree with all the PP's who say if he was uncomfortable, it would have been best for him to excuse himself.

I can understand this being the case in public, but surely this isn' t the same for a private establishment. It's my understanding that as a private establishment they have the right to refuse anyone service for whatever reason they want, right or wrong. I'm not justifying it, I'm just distinguishing between this type of behavior occurring out in the open and it occurring in a private office.

ETA: I stand corrected: Nevada law reads as follows-

NRS 201.232
Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a mother may breast feed her child in any public or private location where the mother is otherwise authorized to be, irrespective of whether the nipple of the mother's breast is uncovered during or incidental to the breastfeeding.

(Added to Nevada Revised Statutes by 1995, 126)

Yup. So many people are unfamiliar with this aspect, and I know in WI, this was a somewhat recent change to the law.

Whether you would be comfortable, or whether it passes your standards of modesty, or whether you just think it's rude.... it doesn't matter. Those are all opinions and personal perspectives, and (at least in my and other states) the law says it's the choice of the breastfeeding mother.

Bride2bMO · September 2010

I would guess she was pacifying the baby. I'm sure a screaming or fussy baby would've been a bigger distraction. And his time is surely valuable, would he have minded that she stepped out for 20 min.? Sounds like he needs to grow up. The only context I can find BFing is offensive is one where bottle feeding would be offensive. So almost no situation I can think of.

biohaz444 · September 2010

wednesday51:
I do not think it was appropriate for her to do that--- at all. It doesn't matter what she was doing with her boob. It was still out. I get that it's a natural function, etc. but with all due respect... so is taking a dump. And both should be private. Just because it is "natural" does not mean you need to do it in public without a cover and assume others will think it is natural and beautiful and wonderful etc. too.

when nursing, you typically don't "whip out your boob", it sounds like she had a nursing shirt on, and just moved the flap over enough to nurse. You usually don't even really see much skin, if any... baby usually covers what skin is exposed by a nursing shirt.

I find that often my little guy will fuss lots more under a blanket, which just draws more attention to the situation, where, if I just discreetly find a semi-private spot and sit with him, people barely notice, or don't seem to mind - for example, the bench outside of the restrooms in a store. I tend to try to find the semi-private areas to nurse, and if we're going to a place that it would be harder to do this (restaurants), I bring a bottle of expressed milk if I can..

That said, I think that she was comfortable (enough) with nursing there, and he made her feel uncomfortable. If the baby needs to eat, it's better to feed and keep the baby comfortable than to allow the baby to get fussy, usually that's when it gets really distracting. I think he should have offered to leave and allow her to finish nursing if he was uncomfortable.

Bride2bMO · September 2010

wednesday51:
I do not think it was appropriate for her to do that--- at all. It doesn't matter what she was doing with her boob. It was still out. I get that it's a natural function, etc. but with all due respect... so is taking a dump. And both should be private. Just because it is "natural" does not mean you need to do it in public without a cover and assume others will think it is natural and beautiful and wonderful etc. too.
I would have been offended, too, if a woman assumed she could leave her breast hanging out in front of my husband and not even use a cover (how hard is that?). It's not as if your boobs are suddenly de-sexualized in the minds of men because they have a baby attached to them, as much as some women want to think they are.
In the interest of customer service, yes, he could have offered to let himself out the door. But she had to have seen how it might be weird to lock yourself in a guy's office and then whip out your boob without warning.

It's obvious you don't breastfeed. The sexualization is his problem, not hers. A bare breast is not any more offensive than a bottle, unless the observer has a sexual hang up. Breasts exist for feeding. The reason men may find them attractive is because they are subconsciously driven to notice females who look fertile and able to NURSE babies. Biology is on her side, the law is on her side, common sense is on her side.

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