Naming your kid something outside the realm of your culture...

dkreckel@saintmikesalum.com · August 2010

My husband is dead set on naming our baby Toshiro, which means "clever son" in Japanese if it is a boy. I'm afraid that because he won't be asian in the slightest, other kids will make fun of him hard core for having the name. I know it might be silly, but a name is not something to be taken lightly; you are stuck with it for at least the first 18 years of your life... What do you all think?

wittyschaffy · August 2010

Use it as a MN if you like it that much, but don't do it as a first name.

cutebride73 · August 2010

I don't know, but would doing that be in any way insulting to someone of Japanese decent?

As far as getting teased who knows - with kids you just never know, but I would think that people would find it strange and when he applies to college and jobs they are going to expect an asian person when they see his name - even when you register him for kindergarten. I would think it could possibly also cause mix-ups when he fills in his ethnicity on something and then people look at his name, they might think it was a mistake.

I agree with the pp - use the name for a mn, but not as the first name. I think it will make things less confusing when he's out in the real world. Remember school only lasts 12 years - then he's got to live with this name as an adult for another 70 - 80 years.

LittleDucky · August 2010

I think it is definitely odd to use a Japanese name if neither of you are Japanese or have any personal connection to Japan. I would be confused if I met a kid named Toshiro and he wasn't Japanese.

ttmccoot · August 2010

cutebride73:

I don't know, but would doing that be in any way insulting to someone of Japanese decent?

As far as getting teased who knows - with kids you just never know, but I would think that people would find it strange and when he applies to college and jobs they are going to expect an asian person when they see his name - even when you register him for kindergarten. I would think it could possibly also cause mix-ups when he fills in his ethnicity on something and then people look at his name, they might think it was a mistake.

I agree with the pp - use the name for a mn, but not as the first name. I think it will make things less confusing when he's out in the real world. Remember school only lasts 12 years - then he's got to live with this name as an adult for another 70 - 80 years.

i don't see why a japanses person would find this offensive. i named my daughter an english name; i am not english even a little bit. not quite the same thing, but you catch my drift.

as for the school and job thing, why would it matter if they are mistaken about his ethnicity?

i'm just not following any of your reasoning, i guess.

op, i think if you like it, use it. it's NMS, but it has a great meaning. like PPs said, you can always use it as a middle name.

good luck!

magsugar13 · August 2010

I don't understand either...a lot of people name their children names that come from different cultures. Look at all the Aiden, Maeve, Gianna, etc....babies there are. I know for a fact that not all of them are Irish or Italian. My name is originally a Hebrew name...I am not Jewish. I do not understand that line of thinking.

LittleDucky · August 2010

magsugar13:
I don't understand either...a lot of people name their children names that come from different cultures. Look at all the Aiden, Maeve, Gianna, etc....babies there are. I know for a fact that not all of them are Irish or Italian. My name is originally a Hebrew name...I am not Jewish. I do not understand that line of thinking.

I think there is a difference between using a name from a dominant culture, considering that most Americans are of European ancestry and Judeo-Christian heritage, and using a name from a minority culture. That's how I distinguish between the two.

EastCoastBride · August 2010

We used a pretty Irish name but we really aren't irish. And we have a very Jewish last name.

But I do have to say - using a Japanese name is a bigger stretch and will probably stand out. i am sure he'll get a lot of questions in his life about his background, where did his name come from, etc.

I don't think it's horrible to use, but it's definitely odd and I think a LOT of people are going to be like "what? Huh?" - if not to your face, behind your back.

cutebride73 · August 2010

ttmccoot:
cutebride73:

I don't know, but would doing that be in any way insulting to someone of Japanese decent?

As far as getting teased who knows - with kids you just never know, but I would think that people would find it strange and when he applies to college and jobs they are going to expect an asian person when they see his name - even when you register him for kindergarten. I would think it could possibly also cause mix-ups when he fills in his ethnicity on something and then people look at his name, they might think it was a mistake.

I agree with the pp - use the name for a mn, but not as the first name. I think it will make things less confusing when he's out in the real world. Remember school only lasts 12 years - then he's got to live with this name as an adult for another 70 - 80 years.

I don't see why a japanses person would find this offensive. i named my daughter an english name; i am not english even a little bit. not quite the same thing, but you catch my drift.

as for the school and job thing, why would it matter if they are mistaken about his ethnicity?

i'm just not following any of your reasoning, i guess.

op, i think if you like it, use it. it's NMS, but it has a great meaning. like PPs said, you can always use it as a middle name.

good luck!

These are far from the same thing. I am sorry, but they are. This isn't just about the ethnicity of a name - it's about culture as well. And I didn't say a Japanese person would be offended, I asked - would they be? I don't know - that is why I posed it as a question.

Anyway, as people being confused by his name implying his race/ethnicity - I work in a school, there are standardized tests that kids have to take a lot. The results are broken down in a number of ways, race included. If it is assumed (by the standardized test persons) that he is one race, based on his name, no matter what box is checked, then that could be problematic. All of the discipline actions must be reported to the state each year, as well as a host of other data and it is all broken down by race (as well as by grade, gender, etc..).

When he applies to college he could be offered scholarships or be put in the running for some based on his perceived ehtnicity. And I am sorry, but the reality in the world (right or wrong) is that people make assumptions based on what they perceive to be true, not what is actually true. That could be in his favor or not, it's just the way it is.

In the end can all of these "assumptions" can be corrected I am sure, but I just think it could create a lot more of a hassle throughout the child's and then adult's life.

EastCoastBride · August 2010

*justducky*:

I think there is a difference between using a name from a dominant culture, considering that most Americans are of European ancestry and Judeo-Christian heritage, and using a name from a minority culture. That's how I distinguish between the two.

Better said than what I wrote - but this!

LittleDucky · August 2010

OP: Completely unrelated to your post, but you might want to consider changing your screen name. If you have your email address as your screen name you will get lots of spam.

Fryday37 · August 2010

it's a fine name but not something that i would use. i agree with pp, use it as a middle name.

dkreckel@saintmikesalum.com · August 2010

justducky: I tried to change it, but it won't let me. I didn't realize that it had put that in there as my screen name when I signed up for this site.

LittleDucky · August 2010

dkreckel@saintmikesalum.com:
justducky: I tried to change it, but it won't let me. I didn't realize that it had put that in there as my screen name when I signed up for this site.

Given that you only have four posts, you might want to create a new account. I just don't want your email to be spammed!

juniper19 · August 2010

He may not be teased, but he will be asked about it all.the.time. and unless he's got the patience of a saint he will probably be very annoyed.

Allie30 · August 2010

cutebride73:
Anyway, as people being confused by his name implying his race/ethnicity - I work in a school, there are standardized tests that kids have to take a lot. The results are broken down in a number of ways, race included. If it is assumed (by the standardized test persons) that he is one race, based on his name, no matter what box is checked, then that could be problematic. All of the discipline actions must be reported to the state each year, as well as a host of other data and it is all broken down by race (as well as by grade, gender, etc..).

When he applies to college he could be offered scholarships or be put in the running for some based on his perceived ehtnicity. And I am sorry, but the reality in the world (right or wrong) is that people make assumptions based on what they perceive to be true, not what is actually true. That could be in his favor or not, it's just the way it is.

That's ridiculous. Your argument is that schools grade standardized tests based on an ASSUMPTION of the individual's race because of their first name? What about all the Asian kids named Jennifer and Grace and Thomas and William? Are they going to be assumed *not* Asian because their names aren't Michigo and Toshiro?

I knew two girls in my class named Erica Johnson. One was black, one could have passed for a barbie doll. But you'd better believe that when the black Erica Johnson took a standardized test or applied for a scholarship reserved for black students, she marked down her race as African-American.When people compile stats, they compile it based on the ethnicity marked in the ethnicity column, not on whether the child's parents named them Toshiro, John, or Bentley.

Also, the idea that it's okay for someone with no Irish or Italian heritage to name their kid Siobhan or Gianna or whatever because "all white people are the same" but it *isn't* okay for them to name their child a Japanese name is utter nonsense. If ethnic names are on the table, then ANY ethnic name is on the table. What about all the folks naming their kids Leila? That's an Arabic name that a bunch of white people are using, too. Is that also on the "unacceptable" list because Leila isn't "European" (which apparently means "white" though, honestly, Siobhan and Kellan and similar look and sound a lot more "foreign" to my ears and eyes than Toshiro, and non-Irish parents are using those names with abandon.)

Frankly, I think naming your kid Dante Robertson or Aidan Moskowitz or Pythagoras Jones sounds no more jarring than naming him Toshiro Smith -- it is definitely jarring, but not as much as it was even ten years ago, and therefore probably won't make people even blink in another ten.

In the early part of the 20th century, it was common for Jewish-American families to give their children English sounding names so as to assimilate into the culture. Names that I now think of as sounding very "Borscht Belt" -- Arthur, Bernard, etc. -- were actually very "English" names adopted by Jewish families who didn't want their kids to be Moshe and Ezra.

Ironically, now a lot of those "Jewish" Old Testament names are all the rage among folks who aren't Jewish -- Isaiah and Elijah and yes, Ezra.

I have family members who are of different ethnicities but took our last name upon marriage -- no big deal. And with the craze over "Celtic" names and made up names and names that you spell seventy-five different ways or names that are spelled "Xgrdfswwwhfr" but pronounced "Jennifer" -- then little Toshiro has NOTHING to worry about.

MaryYVR · August 2010

I think it would be great as a mn.

futuremrsstotler · August 2010

Thats terrible. People would think you were naming him that as a joke! Don't do it!!

cozylittlecave · August 2010

hmmm... this is actually interesting (I don't mean that in a bad way!)

I do think the mn option is probably safest (you could always go by that if you want to), but I don't think it can't work.

If I met a little Toshiro (with no physical asian qualities), I would assume that a)his parents were totally into the culture or had traveled there or b)he had a single relative in the family who WAS Japanese. Either way, I would find it interesting, and I'd probably ask if making small talk. The only thing I'd really be concerned about is having to deal with people often asking (although in this day & age... even NORMAL names are misspelled & mispronounced, so I don't find it a big deal). I say go for it!

braveangel2 · August 2010

My non-Japanese BIL was named, Ren - a Japanese name. However, it was a familiar Japanese name used in the movie, Foot Loose, so it's not like it was a unheard of.

Toshiro - I would middle name it. One person's passion doesn't always translate well into another person's life-long name.

Nova726 · August 2010

Allie30:
I knew two girls in my class named Erica Johnson. One was black, one could have passed for a barbie doll.

Um, Barbie comes in different skin colors.

redhotchili83 · August 2010

DS's name is Hawaiian and he is Hispanic/White. We went with it because it is still a recognizible name and there are other "white kids" with that name. IDK about yours.... it might be too stereotypical Asian and he will forever have to explain his name.

I might be the pot calling the kettle black?

libelle85 · August 2010

Thanks for the advice everyone! I think we are going to compromise and use it as a middle name. My husband has been stuck on it. I think we are going to go with Damien Toshiro.

braveangel2 · August 2010

libelle219:
Thanks for the advice everyone! I think we are going to compromise and use it as a middle name. My husband has been stuck on it. I think we are going to go with Damien Toshiro.

Great compromise - I like the mix of French and Japanese!

wallace84 · August 2010

Dude, name your kid Toshiro if you like it. It sounds like a band name Yes

still_a_bride · August 2010

cozylittlecave:
hmmm... this is actually interesting (I don't mean that in a bad way!)
I do think the mn option is probably safest (you could always go by that if you want to), but I don't think it can't work.
If I met a little Toshiro (with no physical asian qualities), I would assume that a)his parents were totally into the culture or had traveled there or b)he had a single relative in the family who WAS Japanese. Either way, I would find it interesting, and I'd probably ask if making small talk. The only thing I'd really be concerned about is having to deal with people often asking (although in this day & age... even NORMAL names are misspelled & mispronounced, so I don't find it a big deal). I say go for it!

THIS exactly!

Mama_SAS · August 2010

Allie30:
cutebride73:
Anyway, as people being confused by his name implying his race/ethnicity - I work in a school, there are standardized tests that kids have to take a lot. The results are broken down in a number of ways, race included. If it is assumed (by the standardized test persons) that he is one race, based on his name, no matter what box is checked, then that could be problematic. All of the discipline actions must be reported to the state each year, as well as a host of other data and it is all broken down by race (as well as by grade, gender, etc..).
When he applies to college he could be offered scholarships or be put in the running for some based on his perceived ehtnicity. And I am sorry, but the reality in the world (right or wrong) is that people make assumptions based on what they perceive to be true, not what is actually true. That could be in his favor or not, it's just the way it is.
That's ridiculous. Your argument is that schools grade standardized tests based on an ASSUMPTION of the individual's race because of their first name? What about all the Asian kids named Jennifer and Grace and Thomas and William? Are they going to be assumed *not* Asian because their names aren't Michigo and Toshiro?
I knew two girls in my class named Erica Johnson. One was black, one could have passed for a barbie doll. But you'd better believe that when the black Erica Johnson took a standardized test or applied for a scholarship reserved for black students, she marked down her race as African-American.When people compile stats, they compile it based on the ethnicity marked in the ethnicity column, not on whether the child's parents named them Toshiro, John, or Bentley.
Also, the idea that it's okay for someone with no Irish or Italian heritage to name their kid Siobhan or Gianna or whatever because "all white people are the same" but it *isn't* okay for them to name their child a Japanese name is utter nonsense. If ethnic names are on the table, then ANY ethnic name is on the table. What about all the folks naming their kids Leila? That's an Arabic name that a bunch of white people are using, too. Is that also on the "unacceptable" list because Leila isn't "European" (which apparently means "white" though, honestly, Siobhan and Kellan and similar look and sound a lot more "foreign" to my ears and eyes than Toshiro, and non-Irish parents are using those names with abandon.)
Frankly, I think naming your kid Dante Robertson or Aidan Moskowitz or Pythagoras Jones sounds no more jarring than naming him Toshiro Smith -- it is definitely jarring, but not as much as it was even ten years ago, and therefore probably won't make people even blink in another ten.
In the early part of the 20th century, it was common for Jewish-American families to give their children English sounding names so as to assimilate into the culture. Names that I now think of as sounding very "Borscht Belt" -- Arthur, Bernard, etc. -- were actually very "English" names adopted by Jewish families who didn't want their kids to be Moshe and Ezra.
Ironically, now a lot of those "Jewish" Old Testament names are all the rage among folks who aren't Jewish -- Isaiah and Elijah and yes, Ezra.
I have family members who are of different ethnicities but took our last name upon marriage -- no big deal. And with the craze over "Celtic" names and made up names and names that you spell seventy-five different ways or names that are spelled "Xgrdfswwwhfr" but pronounced "Jennifer" -- then little Toshiro has NOTHING to worry about.

I agree. I like Toshiro and I don't think you have anything to worry about.

ShellShockedMama · August 2010

I'm in the minority but I definitely do not favor that name. Hell, I'm getting _shit_ for naming my child Xavier and I don't think it's as..um..different as the one your husband likes.

Boizmom · August 2010

Lurker here and saw your post. Maybe the compromise you can come up with is first name Toshiro, but call him Tosh? IDK. Or like PP said, use it as the middle name?? Are there any other names your DH likes?

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