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Parenting
If you are very strict and have a child 4 or older?
My DD is a "spirited" child. She could pitch a fit for an hour at 2 because you gave her the wrong color hair clip. She generally a good child, plays well with others and alone, but lately, she does not follow directions at all. Her baby brother is better at it. I could say, "please play with your dolly." and she would argue with me about why this isn't a good idea, the dolly is the wrong dolly, and . She also will ask for the same thing over and over again, "I want a jelly bean." 10 times after I have already told her no.
My question is, how many chances do you give them? If you have a policy that is closer to 0 tolerance, does it work or do you battle all day? I am being unreasonable to expect a 4 year old to listen the first 3 times, so I don't have to ask her 12 times to put her shoes on, only to get in the car and realize she doesn't have them on? What do you do when they don't listen to the mundane day to day request?
I don't want to be to harsh, but I don't want to be a pushover raising a child who thinks adults are merely "Here to Serve".
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Re: If you are very strict and have a child 4 or older?
My kid is 3, but I guess you could call her "spirited" (though I hate that term....because usually it just means "brat" in a nicer term). She gets two chances.
As in:
"Betty pick up your toys"
Betty: NO! I don't WANT TO! (which is what I usually get)
Me: Ok, this is your final chance. You pick up your toys or it is 3 minutes in time out. The choice is yours.
9 times out of 10 she complies, because she knows I'm not messing around and she ALWAYS gets a time out or punishment that was promised. The key is consistency..and follow thru.
Christmas 2011
I could have written this entire post.
My girls (and L for that matter) all do the things you mentioned. ESP the asking for something 10xs (or more) after being told no. They even ask repeatedly for something after I have told them yes and in the process of getting it for them.
We do 3 chances and you are out. I am in the process of reading 123 Magic. Havent made it very far. I have had it for a year (or longer) and maybe on the 3-4th chapter, I never have time to read and when I do Im so tired I fall asleep. I have heard great things about it. So far it seems so basic but for some reason i catch myself doing what it says not to do.
I spend too much time trying to negotiate with them and where Im out numbered I have 3 different questions/requests/tantrums going on at one time. Therefore I find I have to yell so they can hear me over each other. Its gotten rough since the girls turned 4.
My dh is trying the 0 tolerance approach. If they are doing something they know they shouldnt be doing they are automatically in trouble. If it is something they havent been told once before they get 1 warning. Ex. They know by being told and yelled at and put in time out for spinning in dh computer chair. They still do it...so the first time dh catches them doing it the go to time out without a single warning. Its more "you are not allowed to spin in the chair" and he takes them to time out. For things like Fighting over a toy he will say "we do not fight over toys, share or it will be taken away" He will give it to one of the kids and start a timer for them to take turns. If they start to fight over it again or take it from the other he takes the toy and the go to time out.
He just started this so Im not sure how its working out. He only does it while Im at work and he has them. (which is a lot since he doesnt work)
I get that about meaning what you say. I am consistent with being nice to her brother, picking up toys, not hurting people, and being nice to her friends. The stuff I am talking about is little stuff, like could you put the napkin in the trash please or please close the door, or flush the toilet. I think that 4 minutes of time is extreme for such a little thing, since she freaks in time out. I generally save it for the larger problems, like being mean or hurting people. If people do that and it works, I can give it a try. I have been doing 1, 2, 3, then she loses something, but I feel like I am counting all day and end up with a pile of her favorite toys at the end of the day, so clearly that isn't working.
Maybe I will get it soon and read it for the both of us! Let me know if your DH thinks it is working. DD is super sensitive, so I have to balance it somewhere. I want her to behave, but I also want her to not feel constantly like we are in a battle of the wills. That is how my mom, and I were and it wasn't productive, though I did do what they said, except when they were not looking :-)
Audrey is like that. She's very stubborn, high maintenance and independent. It drives me crazy, even though she's 3.5
I ask/tell her to do something. If she doesn't listen, I will begin to count. If I get to 3, she gets whatever she's playing with or farting around with away and it's gone for the day. I put it on the counter where she can see it. If she doesn't eat her dinner, no snacks.
It was hard to deal with at first, but I kept telling her that I am the mom and the boss and I make the rules. Now that she knows I mean business, it's easier. I also hold the same rule when out in public and have taken her out of fun things because she was testing me. The key is being consistent and firm every time.
I am not sure how this answer will go over, but we are a pro-spank household.
When the kids were younger, we would tell them once, then give a warning explaining what the consequence was, and finally issue out consequence.
1. Put on your shoes.
2. Put on your shoes or you will get a spanking.
3. Spank - Now put on your shoes.
Now, I say that, but we haven't had to spank them in years. Even when we did, it was a rare occasion.
We are incredibly strict, but we have been given compliments countless times at how well behaved they are. They also know that they have love overflowing from us.
Anyway, if you prefer not to spank, I totally respect that. Regardless, find a consequence that will work and follow through with it. Your 4yo should not be talking to you like that. It is not unreasonable to expect her to listen to you. She is a brat because you let her be a brat. If she learns that you have certain expectation, she will meet that expectation. Kids are constantly pushing their boundaries, and it sounds like you've set them too wide. It won't go over well at first, but you will thank yourself in the long run.
My child has humbled me considerably. As a professional who sat for years telling people to "just be consistent and it will work" and "if you're doing time outs correctly, they will diminish the undesired behavior" and "catch them being good" etc... all of the parenting tricks that in most cases works.
1-2-3 Magic is a good resource, but even it hasn't quite fit DS's mold. And though I cringe a bit to say it (since I used to make fun of it for years when working professionally...) I've recently started reading Raising Your Spirited Child and I have to say it has been a helpful mental model for me thus far. While I strongly agree the term "spirited" gets way over-used and over-applied, I think there is a group of children who are more intense, more sensitive etc and need a different approach. And reality is, understanding your child's temperament and ways to work within it can be helpful, regardless of how "spirited" they are
One thing that has been working really well for DS lately is to have contests - having him race to see how quickly he can put on his shoes (racing his 16-mo old little brother means he almost always "wins"), pick up his toys, etc. We've been playing "I spy cleanup" - meaning "I spy three musical instruments that need to be put away" (and he grabs them) Or color clean up "let's clean up all the red toys first" - Yes, it requires a ton of intervention on my part still, but it's so much easier/more pleasant that battling with him.
Humor and joking in a playful way helped, too. Eg. when he comes down grumpy from a rest period, we "dust off" the grumpy bugs from his clothes, and "glue on smiley bugs" - nonsense that only a 4 y/o could love!
Ooh, sorry, that response got long... but totally get what you're writing about!!!
Great suggestions, and the AP issue is a big one - good call. The book looks good, too, and is one I hadn't seen before - always nice to have new options to read