Flame Free Confession Session

MrsGo4Hockeychick · July 2010

no, my comment on your sh!tty hospital came from working in health care, actually. And I stand by the fact that a hospital with such a high rate of labor and delivery emergencies, is indeed a sh!tty hospital...and NO one should be giving birth there.

And I had a c/s with my daughter because it was necessary. I'm well aware they can save lives...but they also have their own VERY serious risks. I'm extremely lucky that my recovery was what it was.

rkearns0821 · July 2010

MrsTotty:
rkearns0821:

says blah blah blah ...

I'm not actually going to quote you because you're rambling and shouting and it takes up too much space.

If you're so 'knowledgeable' on both ends of the spectrum, how about you post REAL statistics on BOTH sides of the fence, instead of walking into a 'vag delivery is skerry!' post and saying something along the lines of, 'OMG you're so right! I'm a nurse and people DIE from giving birth vaginally!!!1!'.

Maybe think before you post, and try a little harder not to scare a bunch of women who are brand new to this and don't know what to expect. Hmmm???

So what you are saying is that I should just let you ladies tell her what is right since you OBIVOUSLY know so much more than I do about the topic. That makes alot of sense...you are just pissed off because I called you out, people on this board LOVE to do this ***...You jump on someone for posting something that you don't like and start judging them but then when someone as the nerve to provide an opinion different than yours you freak out, call them a liar and tell them they are stupid for posting their opinion.

Where are your statistics to back up what you have to say? Or do you not have to provide them since you apparently know SO much more than everyone else about the subject and we should just take your word for it.

lanie30 · July 2010

rkearns0821:

a) I'm pretty damn sure that I stated in the very FIRST sentence that this was MY experience from the hospital where I worked. I did not state that these were national averages or statistics so I am sorry if some of you don't like it but it is a reality that BAD things happen during vaginal births JUST like bad things can happen during CS deliveries. I am also pretty certain I stated that I wasn't saying anything about CS being "better" than a vaginal birth I just merely said I can understand why some women would be scared of a vaginal delivery and the complications that can arise.

b) NO I am not trying to scare anyone...trust me if I was trying to scare you I would..there is alot more things I could tell you that would make you run for the hills...Do you get pissed off at people who tell you to get a mammogram or pap smear because they have seen what CAN happen if you don't? Do you jump on them and tell them "well not everyone gets cancer and dies so how dare you tell people there is a risk of it" NO you don't..the only reason you are jumping on me is because you THINK you know better than I do because our opinions differ.

c) Lanie30- I defintely don't appreciate you saying ANYTHING about my experience as a nurse. I was not simply "on rotation"..I am certified by the American Academy of Pediatrics in Neonatal Resuscitation AND I am a certified Pediatric Advanced Life Support Instructor, meaning I TEACH doctors and nurses advanced life saving techinques so before YOU start YOUR absurd ramblings maybe you should shutup and RE-READ my post that specifically said "I'm not saying that CS is better than a vaginal delivery I am simply saying that I can understand"

GOD all of you need to get over your damn attidude and quit thinking that you know everything. YES you are right, vaginal delivery can be very safe and YES it is natural BUT how many women do you believe died in childbirth BEFORE c-section deliveries became an option? How many children do you think died because they got stuck in the birth canal or because their mothers weren't progressing normally? Before you start putting down modern medicine and shoving your "vaginal is natural and we are designed to do it" down people's throats maybe you should think about the vast number of children and women that LOST THEIR LIVES before there were any other options.

Actually as soon as hospitals arrived more women lost their lives than were saved. I have some books you should probably read. And the maternal death rate is higher than it has been in 30 years. Mostly due to the section rate increasing but other reasons too like more interventions, more infection in hospital etc...

If you teach CPR I think that's nifty. But that doesn't make you a doctor and clearly does not make you a knowledgable person about history of labour and delivery, or about surgical birth. I'm not even sure why you needed to toss that out there. It has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

I'm with the poster who said you must have worked for some piss poor hospital if your vaginal birth rate was so low and marred by so many "devestations". Sorry about that.

MrsTotty · July 2010

rkearns0821:

So what you are saying is that I should just let you ladies tell her what is right since you OBIVOUSLY know so much more than I do about the topic. That makes alot of sense...you are just pissed off because I called you out, people on this board LOVE to do this ***...You jump on someone for posting something that you don't like and start judging them but then when someone as the nerve to provide an opinion different than yours you freak out, call them a liar and tell them they are stupid for posting their opinion.
Where are your statistics to back up what you have to say? Or do you not have to provide them since you apparently know SO much more than everyone else about the subject and we should just take your word for it.

ok

a) I never said one way was better than the other, I only said that the OP should educate herself and do her own research on her options ... and not choose one over the other 8 weeks into her pregnancy. A lot can happen in 30 weeks.

b) I'm not claiming to be a healthcare professional and posting random numbers and percentages in my comments. Since YOU ARE, I've asked you several times to back YOUR information, which you have yet to do.

c) and yes, I still think you're an idiot for posting inaccurate SCARY information on a board full of brand new mothers and then claim you're 'not trying to scare anyone'.

rkearns0821 · July 2010

Did you ever stop and think that maybe, just maybe the OP doctor has a reason for telling her about a c-section in her first tri....or maybe the OP has risk factors that make it medically safer for her to have a scheduled c-section?

I guess that thought never popped into your head...and yes maybe you didn't come right out and say it but by throwing out your "oh i can't believe you would have a scheduled c-section over a vaginal delivery" is about the same as saying a c-section is a scary thing that should only be done as a last resort. I would also LOVE for you to show me where in my post I stated ANY inaccurate or skewed statistics SINCE I DIDNT USE ANY!!!

andrealynn0707 · July 2010

You said "harder to stop the bleeding 95% of the time" which is a scary statistic if I ever heard one.

The nurses on the bump that I respect the most are the ones that don't start posting about their profession and trying to give medical advice/information without a)knowing the poster's entire history, and b)giving her opinion with the only justification for said opinion being that she is a nurse.

MrsTotty · July 2010

rkearns0821:
Did you ever stop and think that maybe, just maybe the OP doctor has a reason for telling her about a c-section in her first tri....or maybe the OP has risk factors that make it medically safer for her to have a scheduled c-section?
I guess that thought never popped into your head...and yes maybe you didn't come right out and say it but by throwing out your "oh i can't believe you would have a scheduled c-section over a vaginal delivery" is about the same as saying a c-section is a scary thing that should only be done as a last resort. I would also LOVE for you to show me where in my post I stated ANY inaccurate or skewed statistics SINCE I DIDNT USE ANY!!!

Sure, I can do that :

"Whereas if a mother starts hemorrhaging during a vaginal delivery it can be alot harder to stop it and about 95% of the time the mother ends up in surgery to stop the bleeding anyway and that is if they CAN stop it by that point."

And the OP said this about her OB's reasoning :

"With multiple births it is recommended to go C. Sometimes the 1st gets delivered vaginally and the second one goes breech and an emergency c is done anyway. Some doctors think it is safer to avoid the "double whammy."

and

"I've had other surgeries before and none of them were ever half as scary as I thought they would be so I'm not afraid of the c but a vag birth scares the bejesus out of me!"

It sounds to me like she's scared. Which is absolutely normal ... I was terrified of my vaginal birth. My point is that she should probably be a little more scared of a c/s than she seems to be. C/S have just as much if not MORE risks than vaginal birth. And heres where I ask her about that:

"It would be interesting to me to know the statistics involved with both scenarios ... complications from a dual birth and complications from a section. "

....

Anything else you would like me to recap for you?

rkearns0821 · July 2010

MrsTotty:
rkearns0821:

So what you are saying is that I should just let you ladies tell her what is right since you OBIVOUSLY know so much more than I do about the topic. That makes alot of sense...you are just pissed off because I called you out, people on this board LOVE to do this ***...You jump on someone for posting something that you don't like and start judging them but then when someone as the nerve to provide an opinion different than yours you freak out, call them a liar and tell them they are stupid for posting their opinion.

Where are your statistics to back up what you have to say? Or do you not have to provide them since you apparently know SO much more than everyone else about the subject and we should just take your word for it.

ok

a) I never said one way was better than the other, I only said that the OP should educate herself and do her own research on her options ... and not choose one over the other 8 weeks into her pregnancy. A lot can happen in 30 weeks.

b) I'm not claiming to be a healthcare professional and posting random numbers and percentages in my comments. Since YOU ARE, I've asked you several times to back YOUR information, which you have yet to do.

c) and yes, I still think you're an idiot for posting inaccurate SCARY information on a board full of brand new mothers and then claim you're 'not trying to scare anyone'.

I mentioned ONE instance of something terrible that happened during what should have been a routine vaginal delivery...that is not "inaccurate" information because it happened and I never said that it was a common occurrence.

I have also stated several times I am well aware of the national averages on complications during c-section deliveries so I don't believe that I NEED to post anything to "back me up" because I never said that c-sections were safer...so I don't really understand why you keep referencing that

I will do my very best in the future to not post anything that might scare anyone or make them uncomfortable....happy now?

violetvirgo · July 2010

lanie30:
rkearns0821:
blah, blah being a nurse blows modern medical research and statistics out of the water. blah.

Actually as soon as hospitals arrived more women lost their lives than were saved. I have some books you should probably read. And the maternal death rate is higher than it has been in 30 years. Mostly due to the section rate increasing but other reasons too like more interventions, more infection in hospital etc...

If you teach CPR I think that's nifty. But that doesn't make you a doctor and clearly does not make you a knowledgable person about history of labour and delivery, or about surgical birth. I'm not even sure why you needed to toss that out there. It has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

I'm with the poster who said you must have worked for some piss poor hospital if your vaginal birth rate was so low and marred by so many "devestations". Sorry about that.

thank you lanie. i'm appalled that this "nurse" is spewing stupid. you know what rkearns? you sound like the fvcking idiot OB who had been practices for 30 years who looked at me like i had three heads when i told him i had a med free/ birth center birth. old school docs =/= wiser or better.

ina may gaskins (famous midwife) has a lower maternal/infant mortality rate than most OBs. her c/s (when her patients need them) rate is extremely low. i guess all those bloody messes of women were only concentrated in your hostpiatl.

i'm sure there's a multitude of reasons you saw the "horrors" you saw with natural deliver.

lanie30 · July 2010

rkearns0821:

Did you ever stop and think that maybe, just maybe the OP doctor has a reason for telling her about a c-section in her first tri....or maybe the OP has risk factors that make it medically safer for her to have a scheduled c-section?

I guess that thought never popped into your head...and yes maybe you didn't come right out and say it but by throwing out your "oh i can't believe you would have a scheduled c-section over a vaginal delivery" is about the same as saying a c-section is a scary thing that should only be done as a last resort. I would also LOVE for you to show me where in my post I stated ANY inaccurate or skewed statistics SINCE I DIDNT USE ANY!!!

Whereas if a mother starts hemorrhaging during a vaginal delivery it can be alot harder to stop it and about 95% of the time the mother ends up in surgery to stop the bleeding anyway and that is if they CAN stop it by that point.

::points:: That is a statistic. A poor one. A stupid one, and an ignorant and uninformed one.

rkearns0821 · July 2010

oh and you really should learn the difference between a statistic and a percentage.

A statistic is when you say something like:

"95% of women hemorrhage during childbirth" or "1 out of every 100 children are born with two toes"...That would be considered an inaccurate statistic and if I had said THAT without proof than you would have every right to jump on me...

HOWEVER

Maybe I didn't say it clearly enough for you..what I said was "Once the woman starts to hemorrhage during childbirth, 95% of the time they had to go into surgery to stop the bleeding anyways, that means that out of the women I took care of on L&D, for the FEW that DID hemorrhage during delivery 95% of those women ended up in the OR to stop the bleeding and ended up having a more difficult recovery than what they would have had.

Does that explain it better for you?

lanie30 · July 2010

I think you're being a bit silly now. Scare people. Do it. But do it with stats and information you didn't pull of a couple episodes of birth stories.

Otherwise you just look like a tool.

MrsTotty · July 2010

rkearns0821:
oh and you really should learn the difference between a statistic and a percentage.
A statistic is when you say something like:
"95% of women hemorrhage during childbirth" or "1 out of every 100 children are born with two toes"...That would be considered an inaccurate statistic and if I had said THAT without proof than you would have every right to jump on me...
HOWEVER
Maybe I didn't say it clearly enough for you..what I said was "Once the woman starts to hemorrhage during childbirth, 95% of the time they had to go into surgery to stop the bleeding anyways, that means that out of the women I took care of on L&D, for the FEW that DID hemorrhage during delivery 95% of those women ended up in the OR to stop the bleeding and ended up having a more difficult recovery than what they would have had.
Does that explain it better for you?

1. (noun) statistic

a datum that can be represented numerically

violetvirgo · July 2010

lanie30:
I think you're being a bit silly now. Scare people. Do it. But do it with stats and information you didn't pull of a couple episodes of birth stories.

Otherwise you just look like a tool.

but, but....percentages and statistics ARE DIFFERENT!!!!

lanie30 · July 2010