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Natural Birth
Natural Mommies' Views on Circumcision
mzovoce's comment about being freaked out over circumcision has me curious - how do y'all feel about it? My DH and I are both against it, but everyone is *convinced* we are having a girl so I guess it won't matter.
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Re: Natural Mommies' Views on Circumcision
We will not be cutting off any bits of our children unless medically necessary, and I don't think routine circ falls in that category.
And I have a hard time keeping my mouth shut when my IRL friends do it "just because"--the only justification IMO is a religious requirement.
we opted not to circ. family tradition as well as the fact that i don't see it as a necessary procedure. we have no religious reason to circ and i'd prefer to teach my children proper hygiene rather than rely on slicing off their body parts to maybe reduce the risk of STDs. i'm not sold on any correlation between circ and reduced incidence of STDs.
i'm bothered by people who claim that epi's are perfectly safe for their babies (in a 'yes, i'm judging you' kind of way), but i'm not bothered in the same way by people who circ just because.
i do find it ridiculous that people want to circ so that their son looks like daddy or doesn't get ridiculed in the locker room. i think children are a lot more understanding and a lot less 'OMG i don't look like daddy' than we give them credit for. satisfy his curiousity by explaining why he isn't circ'd and i bet that kid will be just fine.
as for locker room ridicule, my husband isn't circ'd (and went to an all boys high school and played sports) and when i asked him about this alleged phenomenon, he said something along the lines of "no, that never happened, and if it ever had, i think more boys would be wondering why so-and-so was looking at my johnson so hard."
IMO, and mind you I am quite the odd cookie about this issue, those who do it for aesthetic reasons or because 'Daddy is so baby has to be too' is a bunch of crappola.
Ironically enough because of me being a cashew we had a Bris (Jewish ceremonial circumcision) for DS. DH was actually not very happy, as we both knew that it is not medically necessary. It is a rather long story but we ended up circ'ing baby #1.
LO#2 has a 50/50 or being a boy but since no family will be involved/present around the time of the birth we have decided to skip it and will most likely skip it for all future boys. I almost feel bad for DS1 now, at least grandpa is happy he has his quarter cashew to take to take to Temple.
Why does that matter though? In both cases, people are making the decision to circ because of cultural norms in their community.
We did not circumcise our son - I could not find a single compelling reason to do so. After doing the research, it seemed to me like an archaic (and frankly barbaric) practice.
My grandpa underwent a voluntary circumcision in his 70s. At least it was his decision!
I totally agree with this. Regardless of your religion, it's a violation of bodily integrity.
There was a circumcision poll on this board recently. https://tinyurl.com/29gt9rg
Mommy to DD1 (June 2007), DS (January 2010), DD2 (July 2012), and The Next One (EDD 3/31/2015)
this x100.
neither DH or his brother are and they have never had any problems with it -mentally or physically. i think if someone is really that grossed out by it then they are shallow idiots.
2 beautiful children
proud mommy!
No unnecessary surgery for any of my family members, especially without anesthetic.
http://oi62.tinypic.com/2w73hq9.jpg
Like a few other posters, I'm more likely to respect religious tradition and ritual than I am "we don't want him getting made fun of in the locker room," because there is always something to make fun of in the locker room.
I think I respect religious ritual as different because I see it as having more solid, comprehensible ground than "he should look like everyone else" or "I don't want him to be different." Because, really, difference is inevitable. I have friends who are non-religious Jews who chose not to circ, because for them it's part of the religion aspect, and I respect that deeply. I also have friends who are very involved with the religious aspects of their Judaism, and for them circumcision was obedience to God's commandment and a ritual tie to generations of family. To me, that's a distinction that makes sense.
That said, this is a case where I'm glad I'm not Jewish, and so don't have to decide whether to weigh my beliefs about body modification against my religious culture. I truly don't know what I'd do then.
Mother's Day, 2011
I would be on the fence if I hadn't dated a guy who wasn't circumsised.
We dated for 3 years. I personally didn't care, but he told me if we ever had a son (we thought we were pretty serious...we were wrong..lol) he would have him circumsised because he hated not being circumsised but was to scared to go get it done once he got older.
Either way I think its fine personally. I hate to put a small baby though that, but in the long run it may be better for your son.
A picture is worth a thousand words. I'd bet money your words are ignorant.
We're having a boy and it'll be a cold day in hell before I let someone strap/hold him down to lop off part of his body without damn good reason.
What I can't understand is how women defer to their significant others on this issue because "he has the penis, he'll know what to do with it." What other parenting decisions can I bow out of because I don't have a johnson?
It's cosmetic surgery on the genitals of a two-day old infant. I'm not going to get behind that unless there is a really compelling reason to do so.
I can see your point but I disagree. Either you think it's inhumane to cut off part of a child's genitals, or you don't. Religion is used for the reason to do a lot of things that I can't get on board with, such as female genital cutting. In some societies, like the Sande in Africa, FGM is also obedience to their religion and a ritual tie to generations of family. (I realize that FGM =/= male circ).
I just don't see a whole lot of difference between religious circ and secular circ that is also based in societal norms. In both cases, parents think it is the best choice for the child. In both cases, the end result is the same.
FWIW I'm Jewish and I know how important circ is in Jewish tradition.
LMAO--I guess, if you have a boy, you wont need to change diapers or potty train; after all, you don't have a penis, how could you possible know how to do these things for your little boy properly?
To the OP: After reading the responses, I now hardly remember what your original question was . . . but I am staunchly opposed to circumcision. I will go further and admit that, while I support both religious freedom and child birthing/rearing choices, I do not support any parent's decision to mutilate their child. Science does not support health and disease prevention as logical reasons in favor of circumcision. Choosing to circumcise due to aesthetics is egotistical and shows a lack of both compassion and education. And I do not understand why safety isn't considered more often: more baby boys die every year from complications arising from circumcision than all children (boys and girls) die of SIDS--yet, we do everything we can to prevent SIDS and ignore the possibility that our little boys could be harmed by a "routine" surgery? I just cannot support it, for any reason.
I sort of agree with you, but in re: the religious aspect, it is not so black and white, especially in the United States. The United States theoretically could ban circs regardless of religious affiliation but I find that to be equally, if not moreso, alarming. To take it a step further, religion on face should be banned in the United States bc religion "causes" spousal abuse, child abuse, wars, genital mutilation, rape--you get the picture.
And while circ might be somewhat considered an issue of cultural norms, I think circ for religious reasons is the "lesser of two evils". The procedure itself might be terrible, but the alternatives (the parents and baby boy being potentially ostracized by their religious community/ the federal government being able to impose laws upon religious groups) to be far worse.
I would assume it's tangential at best to get into a discussion about whether devout parents actually have a true choice in the matter (given that their religion to some degree forces their hand). For now I lean more toward acknowledging that circ is ingrained in religious culture in the United States. We should try to educate people, change the minds of religious leaders, change the cultural norms-- rather than advocating it be banned entirely-- so perhaps millions of members of a religious community are not forced to choose between their religion and their child's well being.
It looks like this is going to be a very unpopular opinion, but in all honesty, I'll leave it up to DH. I have no opinion on it one way or another. I figure he's gone through it, so he'd know any long term effects one way or the other.
I'm not freaked over circ. I'm freaked over making the decision, it's a big deal. I have a family history of guys not being circ and then getting infections and having to be circ'd later.
We have decided not to circ, but to get two opinions to make sure that if we have a son he doesn't have the same genetic predisposition my other family members do.
My son is perfect exactly as he is. It is his body and his choice to make. If he wants to be circumcised as an adult, that is his decision.
I don't harass moms who've circumcised their sons, but if I meet a mom-to-be who is undecided, I will absolutely say something to her in the hopes that she will consider leaving her son intact.
Meredith, 6-1-06 and Alex, 11-5-09
Yup..same her. 2 circ'ed, one more being done in September. It's pretty unheard of in these parts to not.
You'd have to kill me first to get to any son I have to circumcise him
This. As for thinking you are having a girl. everyone thought I was...and I have a boy! He was not circumcised.
Well, it was clear to me in talking to my husband that there were emotional reasons for him to favor circumcision, which I don't think I could fully understand because I don't have a penis. Much as there were emotional reasons for me to favor homebirth, which I couldn't fully articulate to DH because he cannot give birth.
That is not to say that I simply deferred to him on the circumcision decision, nor did he simply defer to me on the homebirth decision, but that emotional component definitely factored in to both.
Source? A recent article estimates that there are a little over 100 deaths per year in the U.S. from circumcision: https://tinyurl.com/27ue7s8. Other estimates have gone as high as 230 deaths per year. But in 2005, there were over 2000 deaths in the U.S. from SIDS: https://www.sidscenter.org/Statistics.html
Mommy to DD1 (June 2007), DS (January 2010), DD2 (July 2012), and The Next One (EDD 3/31/2015)
This, exactly.
I also agree with this 100%.
We just found out we're having a boy and I don't think there really is a need. DH isn't and he hasn't had one single issue his entire 33 years of life so far (whether physical or emotional/being teased and he's a jock/was a frat guy).
He is also very glad he is not and would prefer we left our son intact. So, it was an obvious choice for us.
I would choose not to do it, but I will give my husband 51% of the voting power. Since he's male (obviously), he's closer to the issue than I am. Only a male can really understand the psychological implications. While it's easy for me to say it's a physically painful experience (to put it mildly), I can never really understand what it would be like to grow up as circumcised or not circumcised from a psychological or emotional perspective. So I can't really weigh what the "greater good" is based on my own experience.
Fortunately, last time I checked, my husband was still leaning towards the side of not circumcising.
I didn't say anything about banning circ or religion; that would be ludicrous IMO. I agree with what you are saying about the social cost of not circing in certain communities. I don't forsee success at changing circ rituals in Judaism though.
Another unpopular response... we did circ. DS. I didn't feel strongly one way or the other and saw the drawbacks and benefits on both sides. Ultimately DH and I decided to do it based on the reduced risks of STDs later in life and b/c DH is circ'd and that's what DH knows and felt comfortable with. That being said, we did not have him circ'd in the hospital by the OB, we waited until he was about 6 weeks old and had it done by a pediatric surgeon. The surgeon used 3 different methods of anesthetic including a penial block and DS didn't even fuss so I at least feel like we did it in the most humane way possible.
The day of his procedure and the day or so after I really regretted my decision. I really beat myself up. I felt like I put so much effort, thought and research into trying to have the most natural birth possible- taught myself to trust in nature and my body but then I reject nature and chose to let science win when it came to the circ, it just didn't feel right. Now that it's all healed up and after talking to the pedi surgeon about the many circs he does on boys in their late teens (at the boys' request) and how much more painful it is on a mature male I feel a little better about it all. Still if I had it to do over again I probably would have done more research and most likely would have left him intact.