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Attachment Parenting
S/O- sleep... I've bungled it beyond repair...
It's stressing me out, because I feel like I'm to the point where we're going to have to do some form of CIO.
For a brief few days, Emmy STTN. We had tried giving her some water, and it worked in a way- she wasn't interested in it and would then go back to sleep. So she STTN for a few days, then started waking more.. and more.. and more, until my H finally couldn't handle it so I had to start stepping in. If I step in, she wants to nurse... and she never unlatches. Or even gets into a deep enough sleep for me to unlatch her- she's constantly twitching, kicking... etc.
For naps, she will only sleep in the swing (swaddled) or in the carseat. She actually naps REALLY well in the carseat, but won't transfer inside. So I have to sit in the car with her the whole time. In the swing/swaddled she will sleep for 1 hour tops, and then she goes into cranky/clingy baby mode.
I just don't know what to do. At night, she'll sleep (briefly) in the swing if she's swaddled. She wakes up every 30-90 minutes. If she's in bed with me, she nurses all night and neither of us sleep well. I'm just TIRED. Oh, and I've tried putting her down on a floor bed... she just crawls right off, even when dead asleep. Her eyes won't be open but she still crawls.
We have SO many sleep associations I don't even know where to begin. Trying to break them all one at a time will be an entire summer of hell. Trying to break them all at once... well that will lead to lots of tears for everybody. I don't need her to STTN.. I don't need her to take 2 naps a day... I just need SOMETHING. Ugh.
I'm just venting...
This discussion has been closed.
Re: S/O- sleep... I've bungled it beyond repair...
I'm sorry you're here too, but honestly I am glad I'm not the only one!
We currently don't have a crib or anything set up for her... I thought about trying to transition to the cribs for naps, but honestly when she sleeps SO horribly at night I NEED nap time to keep me sane... even if it is just sitting in the car reading a book, kwim?
I have absolutely zero advice for you. Just wanted to tell you that you're a fabulous mama, and whatever you decide, it will be the right thing. *hugs*
yes, please! I remember talking to you about it, but not what your plan was. Refresh my memory on what you did, how it went, etc?
I haven't the same difficulties but do sympathise because sleep deprivation is the worst form of torture.
I don't have any specific tips but wondered if you have a "family" centre near you.
Here in NZ we have a family centre. It is a drop in centre for Mum's of babies under one where you can go in and get support if you're struggling with sleep, feeding etc etc etc. The people I know who have used it said it was fabulous. They made them a cup of tea, chatted with them and then when it was time to feed LO or put them down for a nap, they watched how they did it and gave them some suggestions and feed back. they have individual rooms with cots, beds etc. You could have a nap or chat with other mums, just whatever you need.
We also have a clinic attached to the local hospital. It's more CIO focused where as the family centre isn't, and it's more for older babies. A friend of mine used the hospital one and they had her stay overnight for a couple of nights.
Anyway I just thought there might be something similar in your area with staff that specialise in baby care, that you could look into?
ETA: I know my SIL used a similar clinic type thing in Australia
Elizabeth 5yrs old Jane 3yrs old
I just wanted to let you know that around 9 months was really hard for us too. We previously napped in the Moby and bottle nursed to get good long naps, then it just stopped working.
We had also been pretty go with the flow on sleeping before then, but I just reached a breaking point and something had to change.
So I logged her sleep (or lack thereof) for a week and picked a fairly average sleepy time in the morning and in the afternoon. For the morning nap, we'd go to a local park and I'd walk about three miles. Sometimes she'd fall asleep, sometimes she wouldn't, but she'd always at least have quiet time. Afternoons were a lot, lot harder. But it just had to be done. So I set a really strict afternoon nap time and stuck to it no matter what for about a month. We did the exact same nap routine every day as well. Then I'd put her in the crib and sit on the floor beside her while she cried. Sometimes, it was an hour (or more.) Sometimes it was a lot less. But pick up / put down never worked for us and this way, I was able to get her lay down so I could hold her hand through the crib rails. We stopped wearing and co sleeping for naps then because I'd have to physical restrain her from crawling off / arching away and I wasn't comfortable with that.
It took a while, like three weeks, but it did get better and I was able to just put her down and walk out of the room and she'd fall asleep. When naps got better, her night time sleep improved with no interventions.
j+k+m+e | running with needles
YES! I hate, hate, hate restraining her in any form. Not to mention, if she doesn't want to nurse she pinches or kicks me... combine that with me restraining her and it really puts me into a "fight" mentality- and I don't want that at all, it just makes me angry.
We're going to have to get the crib set up...
Well- I'm no help for naps. DD nurses to sleep (she didn't used to, but after one of our early and failed deswaddled attempts she went back), plus her naps are terribly short most of the time.
For bedtime dd just couldn't fall asleep, she was definitely tired and we had a very clear and set routine so she knew it was bedtime, but for whatever reeason it took 1-5 hours every night, of rocking, nursing, singing, swaying, I was exhausted, and when she woke up, it took 1-2 hours to get her back down (which happened once or twice a night!) DH works a lot so for a lot of this I was on my own. I was starting to lose it. I really just needed for her to be able to fall asleep, if she wants to nurse in the middle of the night, I'm cool with that. So we did sleep training with timed interval checks. Not Ferber, but we found intervals that felt right to us, based on her cries. Never longer than 20 minutes or she got to worked up. Also we did this at 6-ish months and at the same time, deswaddled her. We had tried doing it gradually, one arm, waist down... but these gentle approaches caused other regressions. We had to go cold turkey.
It took about two weeks to really work well, and unlike many people, dd did cry.. and cry... and cry. It was awful. But... Most nights now she is asleep on her own in under five minutes. Recently we have had some middle of the night regressions (gets up and is really hard to get back down). She has slept through the night 7-6 a bunch of times. It is much better, and I know by her cries when she really needs us. If she seems or uncomfortableI go in, sleep training be damned.
Two things:
1. Are you absolutely, positively sure that her reflux is not back? And I'm not talking "she's not spitting up", I'm talking about have you rule it out by checking w/ your pedi? Just throwing it out there - that's the first thing that went with Ari, & he was having weird cranky/clingy spells during the day. I thought it was milestone/teething/just shitty sleep stuff b/c he wasn't spitting up & didn't have any more eczema going on, plus it wasn't as bad as before. The only reason I'm suggesting this is you mentioned she is having fussy episodes, nursing a ton @ night, the twitching stuff, & she sleeps better sitting up. I'd rule out everything medical first - if there is an underlying medical issue, you can't sleep train that away & you any improvement you see will be short lived. It's prob not anything medical but you never know.
2. If you don't want to do just straight up CIO, there are other gentle ways to start fixing this besides NCSS. It may not be hell to break one @ a time, b/c fixing one may fix a lot of others. I'd say cutting back on the night nursing would be #1, b/c that will fix a lot of issues. If her metabolism is revved up all night from eating, she can't get into a deep enough sleep, which causes her to wake more, & its a bad cycle to get into. Ferber's technique for this worked well for us & Ari only fussed a bit when I tried to push him a little too long the 1st night.
3. I say try the crib, but if it doesn't work, don't force it. This can be a bad age to do it. We tried repeatedly & gave up because it backfired, but for some ppl it makes all the difference in the world. Try it & see, you should know pretty quickly if it will work.
That's all I've got, it's prob not much help. Ari has thankfully been sleeping a little better at least 1 night a week. Other than that he's back into full crappy sleep again. So you're not alone at least! I'm sure that really makes you feel better, right?
I'm not 100% sure that it's not reflux. I am a bad, forgetful mommy (lol) and had to cancel her 6 month check up because she was running a fever. Then she just seemed "off" and I kept waiting for her to feel better before getting more shots. She has never had an entirely good week, so...
but, I don't know how they would even tell if it's reflux? the gave medicine before based solely on my reporting, there wasn't a test, kwim? She actually does still spit up a lot, just not as much as before. Today I really noticed it because she didn't want to eat much solid foods, so we were back to a lot of spit up. Like, a few times I was holding her and then all of a sudden realized she spit up all down my back... and she hasn't done that in awhile.I need to call the pedi...
I wish she wasn't so darn MOBILE! I think I could pat her back or sooth her in some other way, but she literally starts crawling the minute she hits a flat surface, asleep or not. Like, if I try to push off a nursing session... she just crawls over and starts trying to pull my shirt off.
The problem with the crib- currently we have it attached to our bed. She never sleeps in it. But, our bed is against the wall and the crib is on the other side- so there is no way she can crawl out. If we move it so we can put the rails on, we'll have to figure something out about the "open" side of the bed. She'd crawl right over a bed rail.
It's horrid, isn't it? I remember calling Josh many, many times when she was in the Moby just screaming her head off. He was always like, just take her out. It's bad enough she's screaming, much less right in your ear.
That fight mentality is to be avoided at all costs when you're dealing with sleep issues. It can only lead to bad things. The flight mentality is okay sometimes, but the fight one is awful.
j+k+m+e | running with needles
Your pedi should be able to check her throat thoroughly & see if it's red. That's the 1st thing that sleep doc did when we went & as soon as he said Ari's reflux was acting up I felt like a total dumbass. If she can't see redness or tell what's up it wouldn't hurt to start her meds again & see if it helps. If she's sleeping for ***, not too keen on solids, & spitting up, it's very plausible her reflux is at least a contributing factor.
The mobility thing will get better. Ari went through a phase where he had to be so dead asleep before I could even stop walking & rocking, then even more asleep before I could lay him down - he'd have to be fully asleep for like an hour. This was after spending 30-60 minutes getting him to sit still enough to just get drowsy. It's a stage, albeit a sucky one. He's really started to get better about it over the last few weeks - now he crawls up to me or DH when he's ready for sleepy time & snuggles up, or if he's playing in his room doing wind down before nap he'll just crawl up into his floor bed. He still needs one of us to snuggle him, but I never thought I'd see that happen.
I'm going to ditto a doctor's appointment. DS had a bad sleep week last week and I chalked it up to teething since I can see at least one tooth below the gum no the bottom.
We were in for his 1 year appointment last week and it turns out he has a double ear infection. Lovely. After 4 days of antibiotics he's back to waking up just 1 time per night and napping better, too. So I would rule out any medical issues - ears or reflux - before making any changes.
Also, I'll just tell you that 7-10 months sucked for us for sleep. (With DD it was 8-11 months). Between the learning to be mobile, the teething, the developmental spurts and the separation anxiety it seemed like getting good sleep was a far off dream. All I wanted was for DS to sleep for a couple of hours at bedtime so I could do my chores or for him to nap for more than 30 minutes somewhere other than in my arms. We kept trying, but for the most part he couldn't do it and the house went to h*ll.
The good news, is that around 10 months (after learning to crawl, after his teeth popped through and after he started eating more solids) he started napping longer and sleeping the first few hours of the night in his crib. And since then his sleep has gotten better and he's averaging 1 wake-up a night a 2, 90-minute naps. We didn't train him, we just kept trying the crib every day or every few days until it stuck. And when it didn't stick, one of us would lie in bed with him while he slept and use the laptop/watch TV/etc.
Hugs!
I guess separation anxiety could be part of it, but I really don't think it has anything to do with being mobile.. she's been crawling for MONTHS now, no joke. I think she started crawling at 4.5 or 5 months, and pulling up and cruising a week after that. She's been mobile for a long time.. actually at this point, she's been crawling longer than she has been not crawling
I'm calling the pedi this AM, and then we'll go from there, I guess.
I took Ari to the pedi 3 times b/c I thought for sure he had an ear infection. The 3rd time was when we got our sleep doctor referral & found out about the reflux thing.
I get you on the mobility too. Ari was an early crawler & cruiser so I knew that wasn't the whole story. Although it sure as heck doesn't help when they're so busy.