FB status update: ferberizing is hard

WiggleBaby · April 2010

momofolivia:
lanie30:

I think sometimes I feel that way on here too because I do actually legitimately feel like some women are so far pressed in one direction that its ferber or violence/emotional breakdown. I have a lot of time for women at their breaking point and feel like we don't do a good enough job of saying "this is hard. You are doing the best you can.. This is hard." Instead we lecture or tsk tsk, or cry "uneducated" or pity the exhausted women's child, and I just don't think its helpful.

100% agree.

The decision to do CIO with my DD was not taken lightly and was done, quite frankly one night when both DH and I had reached our breaking point. You know the advice everyone gives to parents to leave the baby in the crib and leave the room if you feel yourself losing control? That was us. We couldn't take it anymore. 15 months is a long time to have the patience of a saint.

There are shades of grey in the sleep training world. Just because you CIO/Ferber doesn't mean you are sitting there with bon bons in hand gleeful that your child is crying.

EXACTLY.

i have a hardcore AP friend IRL and she despises ferber (hasn't read the book either). but her daughter only wakes up once a night. you cannot understand the effects of *compounding* sleep deprivation until it happens to you. there is a reason they use it as torture in battle.

EcoBaby · April 2010

Doodler:
[
"I feel like I missed out on a lot with Oliver. I argued with you about so many things and wanted to have him sleeping in a crib, Cry-it-out and have a binky in his mouth. I wanted time away from him. You didn't want to do that, so we agreed that you should sleep in a different room with him right before we left the States. What I need you to know is that you were the one who was right. Crying or not crying, I could have had those moments with my baby. Now, I cannot have moments with him. I am missing out on a huge part of his life. I now understand why you wanted him in bed with us. I now understand why you wanted to soothe him and care for him. I now wish I had enjoyed those moments more, rather than coming up with a solution to make those moments go away."

That made me cry!

brideofaussie · April 2010

Doodler:
ncbelle:

Should we be supportive of other mothers - sure. But I agree with those who've said that Ferber (as in the controlled crying part) gets over-used. The boards are full of folks (and I know folks IRL) who are chomping at the bit to "Ferber" at 6 or even 4 months - not because they have a sleep deprived baby, but because they want to end that last night waking or two. Big difference. Of course, everyone who uses Ferber's methods doesn't fall into the latter category - and I do feel for those folks. But for the "convenience Ferber-ers" (and they are definitely out there!) - I'm not really sympathetic (flame away).

I also have to confess to having nursed kiddo in the car (don't worry, DH was driving and kiddo was safely strapped in!). But this was at the tail end of a 12 hour car trip (South Alabama is the most endless stretch of highway ever!) and all other options to get him to sleep had been exhausted.    Fortunately, it was dark so no one could see the crazy contortions going on in the backseat. But sure, there are times when kiddo is going to cry in the car and I've just kept going.

This exactly. 100 percent.

I myself would never feel comfortable with Ferber. I don't need to "read the book" because if the general idea is something I don't feel comfortable with, I see no reason to read it. I also would not enjoy a walk talking about Ferber because it is just something I would never feel comfortable doing. I also wouldn't feel comfortable talking with friends about how they love to eat McDonald's everyday. Why? Partly because I haven't had it in years (I can't remember the last time I went to McDonald's, but It has probably been ten years. Am I weird? Possibly) but I would feel like the weirdo who was like "Oh, I don't like anything they have to offer"

I have nursed Oliver on the Autobahn while he was in his seat. It was really our only option. The autobahn is not a place you can pull over and Oliver was hysterical. I decided it was what was best for Oliver.

Lanie, how can you say it is wrong to vent about listening to someone talk about Ferber, when you feel entitled to judge someone for leaning over their child's car seat (for the record, I managed to keep my seat belt on)

Oliver doesn't sleep through the night. Oliver doesn't fall asleep without being nursed...he doesn't self soothe. This means that I need to get up with him at night or he will scream and I need to nurse him at night, or he will scream. This means that I cannot just pat his back and expect him soothe himself to sleep. Do I have times where I just wish I could sleep all night without waking up? Of course. Am I going to resort to Ferber? Nope....I will survive and in the meantime, I am going to treasure those moments.

My husband said something to me in an email the other day....

"I feel like I missed out on a lot with Oliver. I argued with you about so many things and wanted to have him sleeping in a crib, Cry-it-out and have a binky in his mouth. I wanted time away from him.   You didn't want to do that, so we agreed that you should sleep in a different room with him right before we left the States. What I need you to know is that you were the one who was right. Crying or not crying, I could have had those moments with my baby. Now, I cannot have moments with him. I am missing out on a huge part of his life. I now understand why you wanted him in bed with us. I now understand why you wanted to soothe him and care for him. I now wish I had enjoyed those moments more, rather than coming up with a solution to make those moments go away."

So, my deployed Solider is missing his baby...maybe this has nothing to do with the topic, maybe my point is way off base...but maybe it is something to think about...no?

Babies are only babies once. Then they grow up and are ten years old. They can do things on their own and it will make you sad that your baby is no longer a baby. Why give some of those baby moments up just to convenience yourself?

Um, because sleep-deprived babies who have bags under their eyes aren't healthy. Do you REALLY think those of us on here who have "resorted" to using some kind of sleep training or CIO do it solely for our own convenience? If that is the case, you need a reality check. I am actually quite happy that DS is growing normally though I do sometimes miss him being a newborn. However, I can assure you that in NO WAY do I miss him getting less than 8 hrs. sleep and going around like a zombie w/ bags under his eyes.

I also think it is sad you don't feel comfortable expressing an opinion that differs from that of your friends, especially on a topic so benign as love of fast food.

lanie30 · April 2010

Did people legitimately read that nursing in the car post and think I was judging women who could do it WITH the baby strapped in and their own seatbelt on? If not LOL.

If you read the post you will see I posted about women NOT DRIVING ANYWHERE ON THEIR OWN because they feared their baby may cry OR taking the baby OUT of the carseat in order to nurse.

I could not have managed to nurse with Jo in the carseat. My boobs are bit, but not that big. If you can more power to you.

But I truly cannot fathom this comparison.

What I'm saying is, every 2 days there's a "I wept because a friend is doing Ferber" message. ANd then it comes out that not only is the friend NOT doing Ferber, they have some strange long story that was entirely left out of the OP.

It doesn't get any less insightful or helpful or in any way illuminating.

I'm not anti cosleeping so I'm not sure what that tangent was about. I just think this board is not always all that supportive OF women. I think its more supportive of a philosophy and I think it can hurt people who otherwise just need a supportive ear. I think when you hide under the guise of "we support everyone here" you have to do just that.

lanie30 · April 2010

The book IS NOT ABOUT CRYING.

Its about sleep. I dont' understand why people do not grasp this. I think the crying part of the book is 3 pages prefaced by "you may not feel comfortable doing this and your baby will likely be just fine with out it."

It's no Ezzo giving examples of all the hoodlem children breaking into apartments to steal *** because their parents bedshared. KWIM?

I do think you need to read before you condemn a book. There's a lot of sleep advice in there. 1/100th of it involves crying.

Also that part about babies being babies is exactly what I was lectured with when I was getting up every half hour for 8 months. I wanted to die and people told me I should be grateful and love this time. It was about as helpful as a kick in the mouth and super patronizing.

webMistress0609 · April 2010

lanie30:
The book IS NOT ABOUT CRYING.
Its about sleep. I dont' understand why people do not grasp this. I think the crying part of the book is 3 pages prefaced by "you may not feel comfortable doing this and your baby will likely be just fine with out it."
It's no Ezzo giving examples of all the hoodlem children breaking into apartments to steal *** because their parents bedshared. KWIM?
I do think you need to read before you condemn a book. There's a lot of sleep advice in there. 1/100th of it involves crying.
Also that part about babies being babies is exactly what I was lectured with when I was getting up every half hour for 8 months. I wanted to die and people told me I should be grateful and love this time. It was about as helpful as a kick in the mouth and super patronizing.

This! This! This! I'm pretty firmly against controlled crying in 98% of cases. And since Ari's sleep issues seem to be from medical issues still it's not right in our case. However, he's a sh!tty sleeper, I can't just live w/ it. 1-3 night wakings that are quick are livable. 1-2 hours of restful sleep all night is not.

I read Ferber's book w/ NO intention of implementing the progressive extinction method, & I found a ton in there to help w/ his sleep problems. The chapter on cutting back night feeds broke the reverse cycling w/in a week. The chapter on scheduling eliminated the 2 hour wakeful period at night w/in 2 days. The chapter on sleep apnea has been very informative & helpful in understanding what may be going on with Ari right now & also helped me to push Ari's pedi to refer him to a specialist. Oh, & Ferber's night weaning technique was actually more gentle than the Dr. Sears & Dr. Gordon suggestions in our case. Sears & Gordon recommend having DH step in instead of nursing, which means hysterical crying for Ari, which means puking & then being up for hours. It wasn't working. Ferber's technique worked wonderfully.

No crying was involved with any of this. Not. one. single. tear. And even though we still have a lot of issues, we're way improved from where we were 2 or 3 months ago. NCSS & Dr. Sears techniques were not enough in Ari's case. It took a blend of those & Ferber to get us where we are now.

CollieJade · April 2010

I'm late to the party, and admittedly haven't read all the responses to this thread, but wanted to say that I'm happy to see some Ferberizers on this board, and happy to read that some of you, while you may not have Ferberized your children, are still supportive of those that find it their only option for the health and welfare of their child and/or family. I'm just a lurker, but I seriously thought I was going to come on here and read about how AWFUL Ferber moms are. I'm glad to see that's not the case!

I felt like an AP failure when we had to Ferberize DD. I wanted to be the best damn AP family ever, and we were for 6 1/2 months. But we had worn out every no-cry sleep option, read EVERY book, and by that time NONE of us were getting any sleep, most importantly DD. So we did what we had to do. It was hard, but even my hard-core AP friends agree that DD is a totally different (and much happier/healthier) baby now. I didn't share details with them because I was certain they didn't want to hear it - which I understand. But I'm glad they, like the OP, were able to at least sympathize with me when I said, "It's hard."

To the OP - I didn't read your post and think that you were judgy at all about your Ferberizing friend. It IS hard to hear about when you don't feel like it's right for your family; it's hard to hear about PERIOD I think. Babies crying (while not the end of the world) hurts every mom's heart! Even if it is the best thing for some children.

ncbelle · April 2010

Lanie - On the nursing in the car thing - I was merely LOLing at myself ;-)

brideofaussie:
Um, because sleep-deprived babies who have bags under their eyes aren't healthy. Do you REALLY think those of us on here who have "resorted" to using some kind of sleep training or CIO do it solely for our own convenience? If that is the case, you need a reality check. I am actually quite happy that DS is growing normally though I do sometimes miss him being a newborn. However, I can assure you that in NO WAY do I miss him getting less than 8 hrs. sleep and going around like a zombie w/ bags under his eyes.

I also think it is sad you don't feel comfortable expressing an opinion that differs from that of your friends, especially on a topic so benign as love of fast food.

I think you have to admit that there are SOME (as in not all) people who use Ferber's controlled crying or straight up CIO who don't have sleep deprived children. They may have kiddos who wake at night or who don't put themselves to sleep but those things do not automatically equal sleep deprived.

So, I stand by my statement that there are plenty of people who use CIO for their own convenience - not all, but some. And those people I judge. As I believer Ferber himself notes, CIO (or controlled crying) should be the last resort, not the first. Way too many people go to that before trying anything else.

brideofaussie · April 2010

ncbelle:

Lanie - On the nursing in the car thing - I was merely LOLing at myself ;-)

brideofaussie:

Um, because sleep-deprived babies who have bags under their eyes aren't healthy. Do you REALLY think those of us on here who have "resorted" to using some kind of sleep training or CIO do it solely for our own convenience? If that is the case, you need a reality check. I am actually quite happy that DS is growing normally though I do sometimes miss him being a newborn. However, I can assure you that in NO WAY do I miss him getting less than 8 hrs. sleep and going around like a zombie w/ bags under his eyes.

I also think it is sad you don't feel comfortable expressing an opinion that differs from that of your friends, especially on a topic so benign as love of fast food.

I think you have to admit that there are SOME (as in not all) people who use Ferber's controlled crying or straight up CIO who don't have sleep deprived children. They may have kiddos who wake at night or who don't put themselves to sleep but those things do not automatically equal sleep deprived.

So, I stand by my statement that there are plenty of people who use CIO for their own convenience - not all, but some. And those people I judge. As I believer Ferber himself notes, CIO (or controlled crying) should be the last resort, not the first. Way too many people go to that before trying anything else.

I don't necessarily disagree w/ you. But Doozer was not talking about "those" women. She was speaking to the women on this board. I don't think any woman on this board has used CIO lightly or for her own convenience. And to suggest it is outrageous. It is also outrageous that she is so critical of a method and practitioners of a method she herself has admitted having no knowledge of.

ETA- and by Doozer I meant Doodler

brideofaussie · April 2010

Doodler:

I said that I wouldn't do it to CONVENIENCE myself.

No you asked a general question to everyone reading your posts. "Why give some of those baby moments up just to convenience yourself?" is exactly what you said.

But even if you had simply made an "I" statement, it still assumes that some of us on this board have done it simply out of convenience. And to that my previous reply still stands.

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