anti-circ legislation

sunnyday016 · January 2010

Thought this might interest some of you:

lvisser · January 2010

ok... so under that law... as a parent, I would not have been able to circ my son?

kit443 · January 2010

so stupid.

anna7602 · January 2010

I don't think this is an area the government should get involved in.

DAuger · January 2010

I saw this too. I think it is great! Boys and girls should be treated equally when it comes to circ.

lvisser · January 2010

fredalina:

DAuger:
I saw this too. I think it is great! Boys and girls should be treated equally when it comes to circ.

Seriously? Because removal of a small portion of foreskin is so equal to using an unclean knife to cut out and/or scrape off the outer genitalia of a school age girl and then sewing her up tightly, leaving only a tiny hole for urine and menses.

There is not an eyeroll big enough on the planet for this one.

Ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch.

DAuger · January 2010

fredalina:

DAuger:
I saw this too. I think it is great! Boys and girls should be treated equally when it comes to circ.

Seriously? Because removal of a small portion of foreskin is so equal to using an unclean knife to cut out and/or scrape off the outer genitalia of a school age girl and then sewing her up tightly, leaving only a tiny hole for urine and menses.

There is not an eyeroll big enough on the planet for this one.

Are YOU serious? They are the same thing. Funny when you think of femal circ, you think of an "unclean knife" and "scraping the outer genitalia." We are doing the SAME thing to out boys but in hospitals. You are cutting off a piece of a child's penis. How is this ok?

Let me ask you a question? If we did female circ in hospitals with clean knives, would that be alright?

anna7602 · January 2010

DAuger:
I saw this too. I think it is great! Boys and girls should be treated equally when it comes to circ.

I am very tempted to say this statement reeks of anti-semitism.

kit443 · January 2010

anna7602:

DAuger:
I saw this too. I think it is great! Boys and girls should be treated equally when it comes to circ.

I am very tempted to say this statement reeks of anti-semitism.

Yes

kit443 · January 2010

DAuger:
fredalina:

DAuger:
I saw this too. I think it is great! Boys and girls should be treated equally when it comes to circ.

Seriously? Because removal of a small portion of foreskin is so equal to using an unclean knife to cut out and/or scrape off the outer genitalia of a school age girl and then sewing her up tightly, leaving only a tiny hole for urine and menses.

There is not an eyeroll big enough on the planet for this one.

Are YOU serious? They are the same thing. Funny when you think of femal circ, you think of an "unclean knife" and "scraping the outer genitalia." We are doing the SAME thing to out boys but in hospitals. You are cutting off a piece of a child's penis. How is this ok?

Let me ask you a question? If we did female circ in hospitals with clean knives, would that be alright?

IT IS NOT THE SAME THING. NOT EVEN CLOSE.

Female circ leaves women in constant pain. The same is not true for circ, no matter how people spin it.

DAuger · January 2010

anna7602:

DAuger:
I saw this too. I think it is great! Boys and girls should be treated equally when it comes to circ.

I am very tempted to say this statement reeks of anti-semitism.

Fine, so it's ok then to circ females if it is done for relgious reasons? Is that what you're saying?

DAuger · January 2010

fredalina:
DAuger:
fredalina:

DAuger:
I saw this too. I think it is great! Boys and girls should be treated equally when it comes to circ.

Seriously? Because removal of a small portion of foreskin is so equal to using an unclean knife to cut out and/or scrape off the outer genitalia of a school age girl and then sewing her up tightly, leaving only a tiny hole for urine and menses.

There is not an eyeroll big enough on the planet for this one.

Are YOU serious? They are the same thing. Funny when you think of femal circ, you think of an "unclean knife" and "scraping the outer genitalia." We are doing the SAME thing to out boys but in hospitals. You are cutting off a piece of a child's penis. How is this ok?

Let me ask you a question? If we did female circ in hospitals with clean knives, would that be alright?

First, i don't agree with non-religious male circumcision, personally, but there is absolutely no equality between male and female circumcision. The removal of a newborn's foreskin in a sterile environment, whether you like it or not, whether i like it or not, is nowhere near the same procedure as literally scraping off the inner and outer labia and clitoris of a school age girl without any pain management at all and sewing it together intentionally crudely so that her husband can later prove his manliness by his ability to tear this scar open and then parade around the streets with the bloody bedsheets.

There is simply no comparison, and it has nothing to do with whether or not the knife is clean.

It's also not something the government should get involved in. Of course, the freaks who submitted this bill never expected it to go anywhere. It's all for publicity. And *maybe* that will help people to become more informed before they circ their newborns in a sterile hospital. Maybe, but i doubt it. But none of that changes the fact that there is no comparison between male and female circumcision, period.

Again, you are stating the horrors that take place in different countries. In the US, you can't circumcise a female. It should be the same for males. That is all I'm stating. You wouldn't do it to a female infant, why do it to a male?

kit443 · January 2010

DAuger:
anna7602:

DAuger:
I saw this too. I think it is great! Boys and girls should be treated equally when it comes to circ.

I am very tempted to say this statement reeks of anti-semitism.

Fine, so it's ok then to circ females if it is done for relgious reasons? Is that what you're saying?

We are Jewish. My son had a Bris. EVERY time this comes up I get offended by your comments. I knew I shouldn't have opened this post.

kit443 · January 2010

DAuger:
fredalina:
DAuger:
fredalina:

DAuger:
I saw this too. I think it is great! Boys and girls should be treated equally when it comes to circ.

Seriously? Because removal of a small portion of foreskin is so equal to using an unclean knife to cut out and/or scrape off the outer genitalia of a school age girl and then sewing her up tightly, leaving only a tiny hole for urine and menses.

There is not an eyeroll big enough on the planet for this one.

Are YOU serious? They are the same thing. Funny when you think of femal circ, you think of an "unclean knife" and "scraping the outer genitalia." We are doing the SAME thing to out boys but in hospitals. You are cutting off a piece of a child's penis. How is this ok?

Let me ask you a question? If we did female circ in hospitals with clean knives, would that be alright?

First, i don't agree with non-religious male circumcision, personally, but there is absolutely no equality between male and female circumcision. The removal of a newborn's foreskin in a sterile environment, whether you like it or not, whether i like it or not, is nowhere near the same procedure as literally scraping off the inner and outer labia and clitoris of a school age girl without any pain management at all and sewing it together intentionally crudely so that her husband can later prove his manliness by his ability to tear this scar open and then parade around the streets with the bloody bedsheets.

There is simply no comparison, and it has nothing to do with whether or not the knife is clean.

It's also not something the government should get involved in. Of course, the freaks who submitted this bill never expected it to go anywhere. It's all for publicity. And *maybe* that will help people to become more informed before they circ their newborns in a sterile hospital. Maybe, but i doubt it. But none of that changes the fact that there is no comparison between male and female circumcision, period.

Again, you are stating the horrors that take place in different countries. In the US, you can't circumcise a female. It should be the same for males. That is all I'm stating. You wouldn't do it to a female infant, why do it to a male?

It is totally different. The procedures don't compare.

Sally J · January 2010

The known practices of female circumcision elsewhere in the world is fairly well documented, so I'm not talking about that at all.

What if it was standard to remove the hood of a female baby's clitoris? This is the same has removing foreskin. Why aren't female babies and male babies treated the same in this case? I for one would be appalled if someone suggested I remove the hood of my daughter's clitoris, just as I cannot fathom doing the same to my son (and we didn't). I can't imagine the pain for the female baby, nor the fact that such a sensitive part of her genitalia was exposed to touch clothing/diapers/etc. I also don't understand what purpose it serves, just like I don't understand it with males.

And FWIW, it's not 'just a little piece of foreskin'. It's a very sensitive part of a baby boy's genatalia. I think it's important to recognize that fact.

(Can someone who is Jewish explain to me the religious reasons for circumcision? What does it mean in the faith? I am just curious for my own benefit, since I am not of the Jewish faith.)

Breezy.Lives · January 2010

Female circumcision eliminates pleasure during intercourse.

It causes lifelong pain.

It keeps girls and women submissive to men.

How, again, is this like male circumcision?

I won't even get into my own position on circumcision because I'm not entirely sure what I think about it. But the comparison to female genital mutilation is very nearly worthless...

EcoBaby · January 2010

I don't really know how I feel about this situation. The way that the legislation is worded, it sounds like they are trying to compare female "circumcision" as performed in other cultures to male circumcision in Western cultures.

As a female, I can tell you for sure that female circumcision would be horrific. I'm not a baby boy, or a boy at all for that matter, and I have struggled with how a boy would feel physically, culturally, socially, religiously, etc. in regards to cicumcision. I know that as a baby - its painful. That much is clear. I don't know what the cultural, social, religious implications would be - I just have a hard time putting myself in the shoes of a male in this situation.

Personally, I wouldn't mind if circumcision were against the law. However, it gets murky in regards to relgious freedom in this country.

anna7602 · January 2010

DAuger:
anna7602:

DAuger:
I saw this too. I think it is great! Boys and girls should be treated equally when it comes to circ.

I am very tempted to say this statement reeks of anti-semitism.

Fine, so it's ok then to circ females if it is done for relgious reasons? Is that what you're saying?

That is not what I am saying, now you are twisting my words. Last time I checked, it is not part of the Jewish tradition to circumcise females, however it is a tradition to circumcise males and in fact, a lot of Nazi persecution was carried out on the basis of checking whether males were circumcised or not and well before that, the leaders of the Spanish Inquisition did the same thing.

As for answering your question more broadly, it would be difficult to do so in one thread on a message board. The general topic of universal v. cultural human rights is something I took several courses about in grad school and in fact, even wrote long papers about (focusing on issues such as the banning of head scarves in French public schools). I think it comes down to evaluating issues on an individual basis and not making sweeping statements or generalizations.

abbybff09 · January 2010

We circ'd our son. My husband and I were there, we watched (I watched, husband just held his tiny hand) My son never even cried. If it had cause him pain he would have cried!

Female circ is NOT THE SAME. Female circ is cruel.

We circ'd for personal reasons. I hate these debates, I feel like people think I'm a bad mother for circing my son. There are a lot worse things to do in this world than circ you SON.

kit443 · January 2010

Sally J:

The known practices of female circumcision elsewhere in the world is fairly well documented, so I'm not talking about that at all.

What if it was standard to remove the hood of a female baby's clitoris? This is the same has removing foreskin. Why aren't female babies and male babies treated the same in this case? I for one would be appalled if someone suggested I remove the hood of my daughter's clitoris, just as I cannot fathom doing the same to my son (and we didn't). I can't imagine the pain for the female baby, nor the fact that such a sensitive part of her genitalia was exposed to touch clothing/diapers/etc. I also don't understand what purpose it serves, just like I don't understand it with males.

And FWIW, it's not 'just a little piece of foreskin'. It's a very sensitive part of a baby boy's genatalia. I think it's important to recognize that fact.

(Can someone who is Jewish explain to me the religious reasons for circumcision? What does it mean in the faith? I am just curious for my own benefit, since I am not of the Jewish faith.)

Still not the same. The innervation of the hood of the female clitoris is way more extensive than the male foreskin. One would cause extensive pain.

I can't go into the Jewish reasons for circ on a message board while I am at work - but if you want to read the beginning of Genesis 17 you could get some ideas. Circ becomes a cultural thing in the Jewish community. It it were torture than I might feel different. But it is not.

fallbridequeen · January 2010

Sally J:
The known practices of female circumcision elsewhere in the world is fairly well documented, so I'm not talking about that at all.

What if it was standard to remove the hood of a female baby's clitoris? This is the same has removing foreskin. Why aren't female babies and male babies treated the same in this case? I for one would be appalled if someone suggested I remove the hood of my daughter's clitoris, just as I cannot fathom doing the same to my son (and we didn't). I can't imagine the pain for the female baby, nor the fact that such a sensitive part of her genitalia was exposed to touch clothing/diapers/etc. I also don't understand what purpose it serves, just like I don't understand it with males.

And FWIW, it's not 'just a little piece of foreskin'. It's a very sensitive part of a baby boy's genatalia. I think it's important to recognize that fact.

(Can someone who is Jewish explain to me the religious reasons for circumcision? What does it mean in the faith? I am just curious for my own benefit, since I am not of the Jewish faith.)

Yes Yes Yes

Whether you agree with male circumcision or not, you CANNOT minimize the pain and loss of pleasure that boys and men experience by being put through this procedure.

kit443 · January 2010

fallbridequeen:
Sally J:

The known practices of female circumcision elsewhere in the world is fairly well documented, so I'm not talking about that at all.

What if it was standard to remove the hood of a female baby's clitoris? This is the same has removing foreskin. Why aren't female babies and male babies treated the same in this case? I for one would be appalled if someone suggested I remove the hood of my daughter's clitoris, just as I cannot fathom doing the same to my son (and we didn't). I can't imagine the pain for the female baby, nor the fact that such a sensitive part of her genitalia was exposed to touch clothing/diapers/etc. I also don't understand what purpose it serves, just like I don't understand it with males.

And FWIW, it's not 'just a little piece of foreskin'. It's a very sensitive part of a baby boy's genatalia. I think it's important to recognize that fact.

(Can someone who is Jewish explain to me the religious reasons for circumcision? What does it mean in the faith? I am just curious for my own benefit, since I am not of the Jewish faith.)

Whether you agree with male circumcision or not, you CANNOT minimize the pain and loss of pleasure that boys and men experience by being put through this procedure.

LOL. I can minimize it, because I don't agree that there is anymore pain than piercing a girls ears - and loss of pleasure? Propaganda yo. Propaganda.

I am sure there are examples out there - but there are always extreme cases. By son was circ'ed by a highly trained mohel. He will not experience any pain or loss of pleasure.

wnk1029 · January 2010

anna7602:
I don't think this is an area the government should get involved in.

This. It would go directly against the First Amendment rights of all Jews.

abbybff09 · January 2010

fallbridequeen:
Sally J:
The known practices of female circumcision elsewhere in the world is fairly well documented, so I'm not talking about that at all.
What if it was standard to remove the hood of a female baby's clitoris? This is the same has removing foreskin. Why aren't female babies and male babies treated the same in this case? I for one would be appalled if someone suggested I remove the hood of my daughter's clitoris, just as I cannot fathom doing the same to my son (and we didn't). I can't imagine the pain for the female baby, nor the fact that such a sensitive part of her genitalia was exposed to touch clothing/diapers/etc. I also don't understand what purpose it serves, just like I don't understand it with males.
And FWIW, it's not 'just a little piece of foreskin'. It's a very sensitive part of a baby boy's genatalia. I think it's important to recognize that fact.
(Can someone who is Jewish explain to me the religious reasons for circumcision? What does it mean in the faith? I am just curious for my own benefit, since I am not of the Jewish faith.)

Whether you agree with male circumcision or not, you CANNOT minimizethe pain and loss of pleasure that boys and men experience by being putthrough this procedure.

I'm just going to toss out a RL story here, about my closest guy friend. He was not circ'd as an infant, he's almost 25 years old, he has never had sex before. Women have laughed at him, and hurt him so deeply for not being circ'd. Cruel yes, understandable? no. When we told him we were having a little boy, he begged me and pleaded with me to have my son circ'd I told him that was really DH's decision because he has the equipment to make that choice. My friend recently had an adult circumcision because of life long trauma surrounding his un-circ'd penis. We live in a cruel world, and I did not want my son to deal with that.

I didn't want my son to be a 25 yo virgin and needing to get circ'd to finally feel acceptable.

I'm NOT saying those of you who didn't circ your children are wrong. I'm just putting out why we circ'd ours.

anna7602 · January 2010

I just read Abbyf's post above and it makes me sad that women have to justify why they decided to circ their sons. It would make me downright ANGRY if women had to justify it to the government.

christina-marie · January 2010

fallbridequeen:
Sally J:
The known practices of female circumcision elsewhere in the world is fairly well documented, so I'm not talking about that at all.

What if it was standard to remove the hood of a female baby's clitoris? This is the same has removing foreskin. Why aren't female babies and male babies treated the same in this case? I for one would be appalled if someone suggested I remove the hood of my daughter's clitoris, just as I cannot fathom doing the same to my son (and we didn't). I can't imagine the pain for the female baby, nor the fact that such a sensitive part of her genitalia was exposed to touch clothing/diapers/etc. I also don't understand what purpose it serves, just like I don't understand it with males.

And FWIW, it's not 'just a little piece of foreskin'. It's a very sensitive part of a baby boy's genatalia. I think it's important to recognize that fact.

(Can someone who is Jewish explain to me the religious reasons for circumcision? What does it mean in the faith? I am just curious for my own benefit, since I am not of the Jewish faith.)

Whether you agree with male circumcision or not, you CANNOT minimize the pain and loss of pleasure that boys and men experience by being put through this procedure.

How do you know this?

abbybff09 · January 2010

anna7602:
I just read Abbyf's post above and it makes me sad that women have to justify why they decided to circ their sons. It would make me downright ANGRY if women had to justify it to the government.

I'm not saying that is the norm. My friend is probably the exception, to cruelty, but I just couldn't put my son through that, if that did turn out to be the norm. My husband is circ'd and has never had any complaints (sexually) so we saw no reason not to circ. My son literally cried for 2 seconds when he had to be naked. During the procedure, I cried but he didn't.

IMHO I believe that when the parents just send the NB away to be circ'd and don't go with them, thats when its cruel. I have no doubt in my mind that he would have been more freaked out had we not been there. I BF him as soon as the procedure was done. He also never bled from it. If we have another boy, we will circ again, and if this goes through. I guess we'll have to use the I am Jewish card. (My whole family is Jewish, however do not ask me why we circ, I never asked them to explain)

lanie30 · January 2010

anna7602:

DAuger:
I saw this too. I think it is great! Boys and girls should be treated equally when it comes to circ.

I am very tempted to say this statement reeks of anti-semitism.

Add ignorance of the most shocking kind and you have it just about right.

I find that horrifying.

*H&J* · January 2010

Sally J:
The known practices of female circumcision elsewhere in the world is fairly well documented, so I'm not talking about that at all.
What if it was standard to remove the hood of a female baby's clitoris? This is the same has removing foreskin. Why aren't female babies and male babies treated the same in this case? I for one would be appalled if someone suggested I remove the hood of my daughter's clitoris, just as I cannot fathom doing the same to my son (and we didn't). I can't imagine the pain for the female baby, nor the fact that such a sensitive part of her genitalia was exposed to touch clothing/diapers/etc. I also don't understand what purpose it serves, just like I don't understand it with males.
And FWIW, it's not 'just a little piece of foreskin'. It's a very sensitive part of a baby boy's genatalia. I think it's important to recognize that fact.
(Can someone who is Jewish explain to me the religious reasons for circumcision? What does it mean in the faith? I am just curious for my own benefit, since I am not of the Jewish faith.)

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+17:10-14&version=NASB

Sally J · January 2010

kit443:
Sally J:

The known practices of female circumcision elsewhere in the world is fairly well documented, so I'm not talking about that at all.

What if it was standard to remove the hood of a female baby's clitoris? This is the same has removing foreskin. Why aren't female babies and male babies treated the same in this case? I for one would be appalled if someone suggested I remove the hood of my daughter's clitoris, just as I cannot fathom doing the same to my son (and we didn't). I can't imagine the pain for the female baby, nor the fact that such a sensitive part of her genitalia was exposed to touch clothing/diapers/etc. I also don't understand what purpose it serves, just like I don't understand it with males.

And FWIW, it's not 'just a little piece of foreskin'. It's a very sensitive part of a baby boy's genatalia. I think it's important to recognize that fact.

(Can someone who is Jewish explain to me the religious reasons for circumcision? What does it mean in the faith? I am just curious for my own benefit, since I am not of the Jewish faith.)

Still not the same. The innervation of the hood of the female clitoris is way more extensive than the male foreskin. One would cause extensive pain.

I can't go into the Jewish reasons for circ on a message board while I am at work - but if you want to read the beginning of Genesis 17 you could get some ideas. Circ becomes a cultural thing in the Jewish community. It it were torture than I might feel different. But it is not.

My understanding is that the hood of the clitoris and the foreskin of the penis are the exact same thing. Reason being that all babies start out female and this hood a girl develops into the foreskin on a penis. I'm not a medical doctor so I don't know how the nerves work.

Thanks for the info on the Jewish community and circumcision. I'll do some more reading on it.

And FWIW, I agree with some of the pp's, this particular issue gets into a lot of gray area on the religious freedom of Jewish people in this country. I don't know what the right solution is even though I'm personally against circumcizing my boys.

christina-marie · January 2010

I have no idea why I feel the need to justify my family's decision re: my son's penis skin to disapproving strangers, but here goes. I really wrestled with this decision internally for months. DH & I had many long conversations in which we employed not only our best critical thinking skills and rationale but those of our closest family members as well. DH and I both subscribe to being feminists and believe me, the topic of female genetalia mutilation was never far from our minds. Ultimately, we relied on good science and the advice of our MWs (offering pros and cons on either side) that there is statistical evidence that circumcision reduced the risk of future STD infection not only to our son but also the women he will one day become intimate with. For us, that and that alone was the most important deciding factor. At no point did we consult our congressmen for their opinions and thats exactly how it should remain IMHO.

stever · January 2010

anna7602:
I don't think this is an area the government should get involved in.

This. We didn't circ DS, but that's our business.

KimberJEB · January 2010

fredalina:
i would also feel, particularly if there WERE a religious component, that the government should not be involved in this parenting decision. They're already too involved in what we do as parents and as individuals. i think it's strange that the same people who get all up in arms when government entities ban or put strong restrictions on homebirth call for an all-out ban on male circ. Either the government is too involved or it isn't. You don't get to pick and choose based on how it affects you personally.

THIS. THIS. THIS.

Jack isn't circ'd for a variety of reasons, mainly the (small) risk of something going wrong on an essentially cosmetic procedure. But it was a really close decision for us and not something I judge ANYONE for.

Regardless, though - the beauty of parenting is that I will take care of my son and make decisions for him and what is right in OUR circumstances. Other people can make their own decisions. Until it becomes extremely dangerous (which circ just isn't - ask the millions of healthy, adult, happily circumcised, sexually normal men*) it is NOT the government's place to decide.

*And if you can find some healthy, adult, happily circumcised, sexually normal women who went through fgm you can start making the fgm = circ argument. But not until then.

jk09uhed89 · January 2010

fredalina:
First, i don't agree with non-religious male circumcision, personally, but there is absolutely no equality between male and female circumcision. The removal of a newborn's foreskin in a sterile environment, whether you like it or not, whether i like it or not, is nowhere near the same procedure as literally scraping off the inner and outer labia and clitoris of a school age girl without any pain management at all and sewing it together intentionally crudely so that her husband can later prove his manliness by his ability to tear this scar open and then parade around the streets with the bloody bedsheets.

There is simply no comparison, and it has nothing to do with whether or not the knife is clean.

It's also not something the government should get involved in. Of course, the freaks who submitted this bill never expected it to go anywhere. It's all for publicity. And *maybe* that will help people to become more informed before they circ their newborns in a sterile hospital. Maybe, but i doubt it. But none of that changes the fact that there is no comparison between male and female circumcision, period.

this made my stomach turn.

and i agree with you fred this is not something the government should be getting involved in

sunnyday016 · January 2010

Woah... I just checked back. I did not intend to start something major with posting this. I just know that there are a lot of anti-circ ladies on the board who may be interested in reading the bill.

christina-marie · January 2010

KimberJEB:
fredalina:
i would also feel, particularly if there WERE a religious component, that the government should not be involved in this parenting decision. They're already too involved in what we do as parents and as individuals. i think it's strange that the same people who get all up in arms when government entities ban or put strong restrictions on homebirth call for an all-out ban on male circ. Either the government is too involved or it isn't. You don't get to pick and choose based on how it affects you personally.
THIS. THIS. THIS.
Jack isn't circ'd for a variety of reasons, mainly the (small) risk of something going wrong on an essentially cosmetic procedure. But it was a really close decision for us and not something I judge ANYONE for.
Regardless, though - the beauty of parenting is that I will take care of my son and make decisions for him and what is right in OUR circumstances. Other people can make their own decisions. Until it becomes extremely dangerous (which circ just isn't - ask the millions of healthy, adult, happily circumcised, sexually normal men*) it is NOT the government's place to decide.
*And if you can find some healthy, adult, happily circumcised, sexually normal women who went through fgm you can start making the fgm = circ argument. But not until then.

Will you marry me? :-P

brandonsfuturewife07 · January 2010

my son was circumcised as part of his hypospadias surgery, and the foreskin was used to repair his penis.

where would this fall? would he have had to live his life with a non-functioning penis?

CalinsBride · January 2010

brandonsfuturewife07:

my son was circumcised as part of his hypospadias surgery, and the foreskin was used to repair his penis.

where would this fall? would he have had to live his life with a non-functioning penis?

No. They only want to ban non-medically necessary circumcision.

CalinsBride · January 2010

abbybff09:
fallbridequeen:
Sally J:

The known practices of female circumcision elsewhere in the world is fairly well documented, so I'm not talking about that at all.

What if it was standard to remove the hood of a female baby's clitoris? This is the same has removing foreskin. Why aren't female babies and male babies treated the same in this case? I for one would be appalled if someone suggested I remove the hood of my daughter's clitoris, just as I cannot fathom doing the same to my son (and we didn't). I can't imagine the pain for the female baby, nor the fact that such a sensitive part of her genitalia was exposed to touch clothing/diapers/etc. I also don't understand what purpose it serves, just like I don't understand it with males.

And FWIW, it's not 'just a little piece of foreskin'. It's a very sensitive part of a baby boy's genatalia. I think it's important to recognize that fact.

(Can someone who is Jewish explain to me the religious reasons for circumcision? What does it mean in the faith? I am just curious for my own benefit, since I am not of the Jewish faith.)

Whether you agree with male circumcision or not, you CANNOT minimizethe pain and loss of pleasure that boys and men experience by being putthrough this procedure.

I'm just going to toss out a RL story here, about my closest guy friend. He was not circ'd as an infant, he's almost 25 years old, he has never had sex before. Women have laughed at him, and hurt him so deeply for not being circ'd. Cruel yes, understandable? no. When we told him we were having a little boy, he begged me and pleaded with me to have my son circ'd I told him that was really DH's decision because he has the equipment to make that choice. My friend recently had an adult circumcision because of life long trauma surrounding his un-circ'd penis. We live in a cruel world, and I did not want my son to deal with that.

I didn't want my son to be a 25 yo virgin and needing to get circ'd to finally feel acceptable.

I'm NOT saying those of you who didn't circ your children are wrong. I'm just putting out why we circ'd ours.

This story is so ridiculous that I almost don't believe you.

CheekyMommy · January 2010

Medically necessary reasons: how about what happens when an uncirc penis is not taken care of or properly cleaned. Horrible pain and disfigurement can come from this.

This is not a place for government to intervene.

Timeg · January 2010

DAuger:
fredalina:

DAuger:
I saw this too. I think it is great! Boys and girls should be treated equally when it comes to circ.

Seriously? Because removal of a small portion of foreskin is so equal to using an unclean knife to cut out and/or scrape off the outer genitalia of a school age girl and then sewing her up tightly, leaving only a tiny hole for urine and menses.

There is not an eyeroll big enough on the planet for this one.

Are YOU serious? They are the same thing. Funny when you think of femal circ, you think of an "unclean knife" and "scraping the outer genitalia." We are doing the SAME thing to out boys but in hospitals. You are cutting off a piece of a child's penis. How is this ok?

Let me ask you a question? If we did female circ in hospitals with clean knives, would that be alright?

Aside from the different methods used for male vs. famale circumcision, female circumcision is designed to remove a female's ability to enjoy sex where as a male's sexual pleasure is generally unaffected. Female circumcision is generally oppressive in nature and is a very horrific act. I would not even begin to compare the two!

At the end of the day, I really don't care if someone chooses to or not, but it should be the parents choice. These choices are made for a variety of reasons, many religious. When you attack something like this, that has been a right for individuals to practice, you are leaving the door open for the government to attack/limit other freedoms.

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