Well... I have a child then had a loss.. What you said makes sense. I agree I would feel a different kind of pain if I was scared I would be left childless.. But what you said "the sadness would be easier" I think is wrong. What you wrote does not make me angry. I know your heart is in the right place. and it seems you were trying to express how you felt about the fear you have of being childless.. I feel that in some regards you are right. Having my son gave me a reason to work thru my loss and still be there for him. but that said, it did not make my loss and "easier" that is just the wrong word to use.
Being that I'm one of those girls you're talking about....I'll answer.....
I thank you for being very polite and very considerate with your words. I in no way, take offense or hold anger or a grudge toward your statement. But here is my stand on that.........
Yes, I was blessed once already. Yes, I do not have to live in fear of being childless.....but here's what I do live with....
I grieve over a loss and I am then plagued with guilt. I feel guilty that I'm grieving a child that isn't here and wasting time focusing on that loss when I should be focusing on the child I have.....like my thoughts are somehow taking away time w/dd----which isn't really true...... To have someone call u out on that is just as hurtful as someone telling you that your loss "happened for a reason"....(I'm not saying it was u saying this, but I have had a regular poster who is now on PgAL make a very hurtful comment to me regarding my loss and my feelings).
Basically it's painful no matter where u are in the process. I hurt bc I never dreamed I'd have tttc after 2 easy ku in the past. I hurt bc I do have a child and some of u don't. (I even told this to a fellow friend who has suffered a loss and has no other children). I hurt bc I have so much guilt over the pain in the first place.......I'm scared of my first experience being my only experience. My dream was to have a large family and the thought of only having dd and never experiencing pregnancy again, or never having another child scares me to death.............so although I'm in a different place than those of u who have no children, my heart is in the same place.
. But what you said "the sadness would be easier" I think is wrong.
I really struggled to find a better word b/c I know what you mean.
By saying the sadness is "easier", I do not in ANY way mean your loss is "less sad" (if that makes sense). My point is only that we're dealing with sadness AND fear of childlessness.
That said, someone else (in the post below mine) made the point that she (who has a child) is dealing with not being able to grieve her loss the way she wants to (stay in bed), because she has a child to take care of. That's an element I hadn't even considered.
I would say it's less of a "childless camp" vs. "mommy camp" and more of a "everyone grieves differently" situation.
I don't think you're necessarily out of line, but I will say I believe there are different concerns/fears for those of us who experienced a loss after having a healthy child.
I certainly understand how lucky I am to have a healthy child, and I have never known the fear of not being able to have children at all, because I have one. I know having my DS helped me in many ways heal from the pain of my m/c. I know the love of having a child, and I want this so badly for all of you girls.
I know I would be ok with just DS, but having a second baby is a whole different beast, at least for me. I felt like the first baby was for DH and I, and this second baby I have been trying to have for almost a year now, is for DS, and month after month when I get a BFN I feel like I am somehow letting him down. It has been 9 months since my loss, and although I'm pretty optimistic most of the time, I have a fear that it might not happen and one day my son will ask me for a sibling and I won't be able to give it to him. So much of my sadness is for him, if that makes sense.
Would I be happy with just DS, very likely, yes. Do I want more children, absolutely.
Just thought I'd share the other side of it. Not trying at all to argue, in fact I tend to agree with a lot of what you said, and appreciate acknowledgement that the pain from my m/c wasn't lessened by the presence of another child.
EDIT: I also agree with bebeblues that there are times I worry my loss and subsequent healing has taken away from my time and energy with DS. I know I try hard to not let him see me hurting/struggling, but it effects me every day.
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I just replied to your pp but to answer this question no you are not out of line. Being honest and speaking your mind is not out of line. And as long as your not being mean to any one person in general then I think that this board is to post all of your feelings free of judgment and we are here to support you and help you. Even if it means that some of us have to read things we don't necessarily agree with, it's about being here and support not total unconditional agreement.
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It's very honest and you are totally right to have that opinion.
However, I don't think it's fair to assume that just because someone has a child already, they can handle the loss better. I don't necessarily believe or find that to be true.
I've always dreamed of having a big family. 4 kids at least. I have had 5 pregnancies and have 1 living child. Who begs constantly for a sibling to play with. A little girl who begs us to go to Heaven to get her brother or to visit the baby that died in my tummy (she has no knoweledge of the last 2 pregnancies)
So, yes, I do not have to face the fear of living a childless life and I know how blessed I am.
However, I also have to deal with knowing that I am not only letting down my husband, but I am also letting down this little girl that I would rip my heart out of my chest for just to ensure that she has a happy life. I have to deal with the constant worries that she is going to grow up scarred for life because my body sucks.
I don't think it necessarily makes it easier to deal with, but you are forced to deal with, forced to be strong, forced to put on a happy face even when you aren't ready, forced into situations with pregnant bellies and other babies because you have to take her to playdates, and you just have to deal with it, even if you don't want to because you are responsible for someone else.
Because of my daughter I couldn't sit in bed and mope no matter how much I wanted to.
So, while I can totally understand your frustration and fears, being on the other side opens up a whole other door and world of frustration and fears.
I hope that makes sense and doesn't offend you.
*~*Mommy to*~*
BFP#1 Kaitlyn 11-17-04
BFP #2 Matthew pPROM 23w5d 06-03-07, b/33 weeks 8-6-07, d/10-15-07 SIDS,
BFP #3 m/c 8 weeks 2/20/09,
BFP #4 m/c no hb 6w4d, m/c 9w4d, D&C 11w2d,
BFP #5 C/P 12/18/09 after BFP- 9dpo
BFP #6 Samantha- 11-9-10
BFP #7 4/20/12 21 DPO beta: 2382 29 DPO beta: 23000! HB 6w2d 116 bpm due Christmas day! This Momma's Journey
~Today I am pregnant and I love my baby~
I had a loss, has a successful preganancy and just recently had another loss...
I understand where you are coming from...I do. I had that fear after our first loss. after having a second loss and having an 18 month old DD, I found that having a child does NOT make it any easier. in fact for me, it made it more difficult, not only the grieving process but the fact that (PLEASE do not take offense to this) I knew what i was missing by losing this DC. I am amazed by DD every day and it DEVISTATED me that I would not have the opportunity to be amazed by this DC....
each member of this(and MC/PL) board is such an amazing woman and each has different feelings and circumstances...I think some may be put off by your post, but it is an honest opinion and no one can begrudge you for that.
I know I would be ok with just DS, but having a second baby is a whole different beast, at least for me. I felt like the first baby was for DH and I, and this second baby I have been trying to have for almost a year now, is for DS, and month after month when I get a BFN I feel like I am somehow letting him down. It has been 9 months since my loss, and although I'm pretty optimistic most of the time, I have a fear that it might not happen and one day my son will ask me for a sibling and I won't be able to give it to him. So much of my sadness is for him, if that makes sense.
Would I be happy with just DS, very likely, yes. Do I want more children, absolutely.
.
Well put Kelz. I'm not in a good "wordy" place tonight.
I think this is one of the hardest things for me. DD is starting to ask bc of all the talk about my SIL's baby. A couple weeks ago she said, "I want to hold a baby" and I told her sort of non-chalantly to go get one of her baby dolls, she stopped and looked at me and said, "No. A 'yeal baby. I be easy.".......it's really heart wrenching when she does stuff like this. She also looked at dh one night and said, "I want a'nudder baby" .......just out of the blue. I want a sibling for her more than I want another child for myself---that's for sure.
. But what you said "the sadness would be easier" I think is wrong.
I really struggled to find a better word b/c I know what you mean.
By saying the sadness is "easier", I do not in ANY way mean your loss is "less sad" (if that makes sense). My point is only that we're dealing with sadness AND fear of childlessness.
That said, someone else (in the post below mine) made the point that she (who has a child) is dealing with not being able to grieve her loss the way she wants to (stay in bed), because she has a child to take care of. That's an element I hadn't even considered.
I would say it's less of a "childless camp" vs. "mommy camp" and more of a "everyone grieves differently" situation.
"everyone grieves differently" : agreed
yes I understand.. you have both the loss and the fear to deal with.. that makes perfect sense.. and I am sorry it is that way girl (hugs). I would feel the same.
another point to consider : not only am I and dh grieving.. my ds is as well. It is heartbreaking to me as well that he will just start crying telling me he misses the baby and wants the baby back..(as well as tell people we don't even know that his baby is in heaven, sigh)
so we all have different aspects to our situations and our losses that make it hard and sad... I don't think you will get flamed. if someone does I got your back!
I replied on the other board but I will reply here too. Many of the women before me said it so much better than my drinking self could. But I have to agree that though I don't fear being childless with one child, I do feel the guilt for the times I have wanted to stay curled up on the couch and cry and I can't. I feel guilty for all the time I have spent thinking about the baby I lost and not the one I have now.
I know there are many women on this board that already have a child but I find it hard to hit reply and post many times. I have lurked every night since my miscarriage and feel I know you all well, but am hesitant to post myself because I do not want to cause pain when people see my ticker of the baby I do still have.
I don't think you were wrong because it's how you feel, that is never wrong.
Here is what I will say though, I have posted this before on the board. Having children during a loss is a whole different thing to deal with. Yes, some of us already have children so that is one fear we won't have to live with. When we lost Zoe(they don't know about the other losses because we were cautious with telling them) I had to come home and tells my daughters that their sister died. The pain that came along with that I will never be able to explain to anyone. When you have to tell children that their sibling died, you can no longer grieve for yourself because you have to worry about how they feel.
So, I think that it is a different kind of pain, I am in pain for myself and for my children. You are in pain for your loss and for your fear of never having something you long for. Both are completely ligitiment.
Sending lots of hugs to everyone tonight.
DD(9)DD(5.5)DS(3)DS(born 2/1/11) July 2006, lost a baby at 8 weeks, natural miscarriage , May 2009 lost Zoe Eliana at 17 weeks no reason known, possible under developed organs. Lost two more babies in September 2009 at 7 wks 4 days. Had myomectomy surgery to remove a large fibroid in November 2009.
I also will add that perhaps the mc/pl board wasn't the best place to post this?
There are many newly grieving women there who have children and recently had losses who read this board and might not be ready to hear some of this.
Just a thought.
I posted it on purpose, though, on mc/pl because there have been quite a few posts/debates in the last day or two about the board members' comfort level with people posting with pregnancy tickers and/or baby siggy pics. I contributed to each of those debates saying that I think everyone who has had a loss is welcome on mc/pl no matter how many kids they have.
My goal was to increase understanding. Basically, I was hoping people who could kind of see where we're (childless women) are coming from.
I also will add that perhaps the mc/pl board wasn't the best place to post this?
There are many newly grieving women there who have children and recently had losses who read this board and might not be ready to hear some of this.
Just a thought.
I posted it on purpose, though, on mc/pl because there have been quite a few posts/debates in the last day or two about the board members' comfort level with people posting with pregnancy tickers and/or baby siggy pics. I contributed to each of those debates saying that I think everyone who has had a loss is welcome on mc/pl no matter how many kids they have.
My goal was to increase understanding. Basically, I was hoping people who could kind of see where we're (childless women) are coming from.
I did just see this, it's all good.
I can admit I'm a little over sensitive to this....not naming names, but there was an incidence this summer when someone flat out said that those of us with children should just be thankful for what we have and we don't hurt as much as them (in a few more words, but that's the gist of it). It wasn't pretty.
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I also will add that perhaps the mc/pl board wasn't the best place to post this?
There are many newly grieving women there who have children and recently had losses who read this board and might not be ready to hear some of this.
Just a thought.
I posted it on purpose, though, on mc/pl because there have been quite a few posts/debates in the last day or two about the board members' comfort level with people posting with pregnancy tickers and/or baby siggy pics. I contributed to each of those debates saying that I think everyone who has had a loss is welcome on mc/pl no matter how many kids they have.
My goal was to increase understanding. Basically, I was hoping people who could kind of see where we're (childless women) are coming from.
I did just see this, it's all good.
I can admit I'm a little over sensitive to this....not naming names, but there was an incidence this summer when someone flat out said that those of us with children should just be thankful for what we have and we don't hurt as much as them (in a few more words, but that's the gist of it). It wasn't pretty.
I remember this, it hurt.
DD(9)DD(5.5)DS(3)DS(born 2/1/11) July 2006, lost a baby at 8 weeks, natural miscarriage , May 2009 lost Zoe Eliana at 17 weeks no reason known, possible under developed organs. Lost two more babies in September 2009 at 7 wks 4 days. Had myomectomy surgery to remove a large fibroid in November 2009.
I also will add that perhaps the mc/pl board wasn't the best place to post this?
There are many newly grieving women there who have children and recently had losses who read this board and might not be ready to hear some of this.
Just a thought.
I posted it on purpose, though, on mc/pl because there have been quite a few posts/debates in the last day or two about the board members' comfort level with people posting with pregnancy tickers and/or baby siggy pics. I contributed to each of those debates saying that I think everyone who has had a loss is welcome on mc/pl no matter how many kids they have.
My goal was to increase understanding. Basically, I was hoping people who could kind of see where we're (childless women) are coming from.
I did just see this, it's all good.
I can admit I'm a little over sensitive to this....not naming names, but there was an incidence this summer when someone flat out said that those of us with children should just be thankful for what we have and we don't hurt as much as them (in a few more words, but that's the gist of it). It wasn't pretty.
Oh don't worry about it. EVERYTHING that women who have children have so far contributed to this particular conversation (on mc/pl and this thread) are challenges I NEVER considered (because I don't have kids). I only see my own struggle and it's easy for me to think the proverbial grass is always greener. I think both these posts are good b/c they're opening my eyes.
I will answer this completely honestly in my half cocked state. Sadly, you're right. I thank God everyday that I have my son, and that I'm not going through this with my first pregnancy. Does it make the wound hurt less?? No, I still lost a child. I am however able to go on with full faith that I will have another child. I also believe that all of you will have healthy babies someday, but have thought that this would be much sadder if I didn't have ds. I hope that made sense 7 drinks in.....
Connor Thomas 6/6/08. Discovered missed miscarriage at 17 wks 3 days, D&C 11/25/09.
Please, please, please - BFP 5/21/11, EDD 2/1/11. Beta@12DPO=52, Beta@14DPO=158. U/S 7/7/11 shows strong baby measuring a couple days ahead!!!
. But what you said "the sadness would be easier" I think is wrong.
I really struggled to find a better word b/c I know what you mean.
By saying the sadness is "easier", I do not in ANY way mean your loss is "less sad" (if that makes sense). My point is only that we're dealing with sadness AND fear of childlessness.
That said, someone else (in the post below mine) made the point that she (who has a child) is dealing with not being able to grieve her loss the way she wants to (stay in bed), because she has a child to take care of. That's an element I hadn't even considered.
I would say it's less of a "childless camp" vs. "mommy camp" and more of a "everyone grieves differently" situation.
I think you're right. I am a mom, and you are not. I hurt in every way that you hurt over your loss, but you don't have an older child. Does that make the pain of the loss any less?? NO. Does that make you more scared about the future. Maybe.
Connor Thomas 6/6/08. Discovered missed miscarriage at 17 wks 3 days, D&C 11/25/09.
Please, please, please - BFP 5/21/11, EDD 2/1/11. Beta@12DPO=52, Beta@14DPO=158. U/S 7/7/11 shows strong baby measuring a couple days ahead!!!
As I drunkendly respond to this 5 times....I totally agree, I feel like my grief has negatively interfered with my parenting for the last month, and I hate it.
Connor Thomas 6/6/08. Discovered missed miscarriage at 17 wks 3 days, D&C 11/25/09.
Please, please, please - BFP 5/21/11, EDD 2/1/11. Beta@12DPO=52, Beta@14DPO=158. U/S 7/7/11 shows strong baby measuring a couple days ahead!!!
Well... I have a child then had a loss.. What you said makes sense. I agree I would feel a different kind of pain if I was scared I would be left childless.. But what you said "the sadness would be easier" I think is wrong. What you wrote does not make me angry. I know your heart is in the right place. and it seems you were trying to express how you felt about the fear you have of being childless.. I feel that in some regards you are right. Having my son gave me a reason to work thru my loss and still be there for him. but that said, it did not make my loss and "easier" that is just the wrong word to use.
This. This is the best way I could respond to your post. I to have a child...the sadness isn't easy. I can't be around infants right now even though i have a two year old...I almost walked out on new years tonight when a 6 month old baby was there and I looked like i wanted to run i'm sure to most people there. Like this poster said easier maybe in the sense that I have a reason to work thru my loss but having my son has not made my grieving process or me moving on any easier...I cry my eyes out and am absolutely miserable at times like people with no children at all. I feel like an absolute failure at times as a parent because I could not fix things with this loss and make her a healthy little girl. Your post doesn't anger me though it is like anything else you just don't know how people deal unless your in that situation and it works both ways for you not having any children witha loss and someone having a child then a loss. This may seem like a ramble I am a little buzzed at the moment.
I hear ya, OP. And I'm not sure you're out of line. Your feelings are valid, so long as you acknowledge that there is pain. There *IS* pain. And I'm not sure it's less because I have two kids. It's different. Maybe less. Mostly different.
After all, you haven't had to listen to your 3 year old son say "We'll have babies once the babies in mommy's belly stop dying" or explained to a 7 year old why . . . well, you know. So yeah, it's different. Neither better nor worse. Just different.
I mean, I see your point and your feelings are yours (which, incidentally, is the same thing I said to the poster who said it this summer), my kids have largely carried me through this year. And for that I fully understand I should be grateful.
This conversation has been immensely helpful to me. I think at first (please forgive me) I did think it would be easier to deal with this if I already had a child and knew I was a mommy. But now, reading the responses of the women with other children, I realize it's the same grief manifested in different ways. I grieve that I lost a child, any child, because that is what I want most in the words and fear most not having. But perhaps if I already knew what it was to be a mother raising a child, I would grieve the chance to raise that specific child.
Anyway, I'm glad we (you) could discuss something so amazingly painful and personal and heartfelt with grace and compassion--several drinks in, no less.
BFP #1 10/17/09: missed m/c at 7 weeks; BFP #2 10/22/10: chemical pregnancy; BFP #3: 1/28/11
I am impressed and gratified by the quality of this conversation. Thank you everyone for your honesty and openness.
I have thought about this a lot, since I have a 2 1/2 yo DS. I know that, in many ways, I would be struggling much more if I did not have him - both because he gets me out of bed each day, whether I want to or not, and because I know I would be paralyzed by the thought that I would never have the chance to parent a child. I feel so deeply for those of you in that situation.
But, as so many have said so well, there are also particular struggles with having losses after having a child. My son so clearly wants and would be wonderful with a younger sibling, and I am terrified it will never happen. I do wish I had time to really take in a grieve these losses, and I am worried about the ways they affect my parenting, and the ways they may catch up with me in the future.
I am very glad to have a place here where I feel I can share my experience with people whose experiences are similar, but also very much your own.
Thanks.
Mommy to Alden, born May 19, 2007 - best birthday present ever!
natural m/c October 20, 2008 at 8w1d
BFP April 4, 2009! Missed m/c discovered May 1, 2009 D&C May 12,2009
BFP March 3, 2010 Chemical pregnancy
BFP May 25, 2010 Elias Derek born January 26, 2011!
Surprise BFP October 24, 2012 Missed m/c confirmed Nov 26 D&C Nov 30
Surprise BFP February 13, 2013
Oh yeah, and this may be the hardest part of it all, when I have a bad day, or even a bad hour, with DS or need a break from taking care of him (which happens to every parent of a toddler) I feel horrible. Like I am not appreciating him enough, or I haven't learned enough from my losses what a wonderful gift he is. (Never mind that the vast majority of time I know what an unbelievable miracle he is in my life!) I feel that somehow my losses should make me superhuman so I never feel tired or frustrated or angry. But it hasn't and I feel awful about it.
Mommy to Alden, born May 19, 2007 - best birthday present ever!
natural m/c October 20, 2008 at 8w1d
BFP April 4, 2009! Missed m/c discovered May 1, 2009 D&C May 12,2009
BFP March 3, 2010 Chemical pregnancy
BFP May 25, 2010 Elias Derek born January 26, 2011!
Surprise BFP October 24, 2012 Missed m/c confirmed Nov 26 D&C Nov 30
Surprise BFP February 13, 2013
And this thread is why I love this board. A level-headed discussion about something so sensitive and emotional that we all share.
On any other board it would have turned into a trainwrecked hot mess of epic proportions.
TY
FWIW-I've always wondered if my DS ticker (and sometimes pic) bothers people. I really hope it doesn't because that would make me sad.
Momma to three boys:
Henry - 4yo
Alex - 18mo
Jack - born 2/23/12 at 20w due to ruptured uterus (previa and accreta resulting in hysterectomy)
He only lived here on Earth for an hour, but he will live in our hearts forever.
m/c #1: sept '09, m/c #2: july '10
We've all been through struggles in life, some more than others.
I've been watching one alcoholic after another come into my life, watched my mom get abused by two bf's for years on end, one bf cheated on her repeativively, I'm been sexually abused by two seperate people numerous times, etc etc etc (I could go on about how my childhood sucked) so when all I want is to have as many children as I want to be a little easier cause the rest of my childhood wasn't very child like, than so be it.
Do I think I deserve it more than the next person though, absolutely not. What makes one person more worthy than the other???
I also seriously doubt that what I felt after having my first, second AND third m/c was any less real or hard (after having healthy kids) than someone who doesn't have any at all.
I don't think you are wrong necessarily, but I think to some extent it felt like you were trying to quantify sadness and I don't think it works that way. I don't think my sadness is greater than yours or vice versa, but it is probably different as it is with all of us. I can understand the fear of being childless. I will tell you that after my losses and then nine more months of trying after the last loss, I started having anxiety attacks that something would happen to my son and I am not a paranoid mom. These episodes were almost debilitating. And I recognize now that I essentially had ppd after my m/c's. I couldn't work anymore. I left school. I stopped talking to friends. I felt like I was failing my husband and my son. I had to start going to therapy. I could not deal with my sadness and I think it was intensified by having this amazing child and wondering if God thought I was a bad mother and wouldn't give me more (I know that sounds silly, but I was not rational).
So the only reason I am telling you this is because I think a lot of us with children feel guilty being sad or bitter or angry on the loss boards. As though we don't deserve to grieve openly because we have been blessed. We still lost though and those losses affected us in profound ways. So I wish we wouldn't try to create a separation between us. We're all mothers, we've all lost our babies.
lindsay.lou
member
Re: Am I out of line?
I'm kind of worried b/c I *may* have drunk posted.
I am drunk posting now... so who knows!
I think it's going to be one of those posts that has a TON of views but no replies b/c everyone is scared to touch it.
Then one person will reply and the floodgates will open and EVERYONE will reply.
Being that I'm one of those girls you're talking about....I'll answer.....
I thank you for being very polite and very considerate with your words. I in no way, take offense or hold anger or a grudge toward your statement. But here is my stand on that.........
Yes, I was blessed once already. Yes, I do not have to live in fear of being childless.....but here's what I do live with....
I grieve over a loss and I am then plagued with guilt. I feel guilty that I'm grieving a child that isn't here and wasting time focusing on that loss when I should be focusing on the child I have.....like my thoughts are somehow taking away time w/dd----which isn't really true...... To have someone call u out on that is just as hurtful as someone telling you that your loss "happened for a reason"....(I'm not saying it was u saying this, but I have had a regular poster who is now on PgAL make a very hurtful comment to me regarding my loss and my feelings).
Basically it's painful no matter where u are in the process. I hurt bc I never dreamed I'd have tttc after 2 easy ku in the past. I hurt bc I do have a child and some of u don't. (I even told this to a fellow friend who has suffered a loss and has no other children). I hurt bc I have so much guilt over the pain in the first place.......I'm scared of my first experience being my only experience. My dream was to have a large family and the thought of only having dd and never experiencing pregnancy again, or never having another child scares me to death.............so although I'm in a different place than those of u who have no children, my heart is in the same place.
I really struggled to find a better word b/c I know what you mean.
By saying the sadness is "easier", I do not in ANY way mean your loss is "less sad" (if that makes sense). My point is only that we're dealing with sadness AND fear of childlessness.
That said, someone else (in the post below mine) made the point that she (who has a child) is dealing with not being able to grieve her loss the way she wants to (stay in bed), because she has a child to take care of. That's an element I hadn't even considered.
I would say it's less of a "childless camp" vs. "mommy camp" and more of a "everyone grieves differently" situation.
I don't think you're necessarily out of line, but I will say I believe there are different concerns/fears for those of us who experienced a loss after having a healthy child.
I certainly understand how lucky I am to have a healthy child, and I have never known the fear of not being able to have children at all, because I have one. I know having my DS helped me in many ways heal from the pain of my m/c. I know the love of having a child, and I want this so badly for all of you girls.
I know I would be ok with just DS, but having a second baby is a whole different beast, at least for me. I felt like the first baby was for DH and I, and this second baby I have been trying to have for almost a year now, is for DS, and month after month when I get a BFN I feel like I am somehow letting him down. It has been 9 months since my loss, and although I'm pretty optimistic most of the time, I have a fear that it might not happen and one day my son will ask me for a sibling and I won't be able to give it to him. So much of my sadness is for him, if that makes sense.
Would I be happy with just DS, very likely, yes. Do I want more children, absolutely.
Just thought I'd share the other side of it. Not trying at all to argue, in fact I tend to agree with a lot of what you said, and appreciate acknowledgement that the pain from my m/c wasn't lessened by the presence of another child.
EDIT: I also agree with bebeblues that there are times I worry my loss and subsequent healing has taken away from my time and energy with DS. I know I try hard to not let him see me hurting/struggling, but it effects me every day.
It's very honest and you are totally right to have that opinion.
However, I don't think it's fair to assume that just because someone has a child already, they can handle the loss better. I don't necessarily believe or find that to be true.
I've always dreamed of having a big family. 4 kids at least. I have had 5 pregnancies and have 1 living child. Who begs constantly for a sibling to play with. A little girl who begs us to go to Heaven to get her brother or to visit the baby that died in my tummy (she has no knoweledge of the last 2 pregnancies)
So, yes, I do not have to face the fear of living a childless life and I know how blessed I am.
However, I also have to deal with knowing that I am not only letting down my husband, but I am also letting down this little girl that I would rip my heart out of my chest for just to ensure that she has a happy life. I have to deal with the constant worries that she is going to grow up scarred for life because my body sucks.
I don't think it necessarily makes it easier to deal with, but you are forced to deal with, forced to be strong, forced to put on a happy face even when you aren't ready, forced into situations with pregnant bellies and other babies because you have to take her to playdates, and you just have to deal with it, even if you don't want to because you are responsible for someone else.
Because of my daughter I couldn't sit in bed and mope no matter how much I wanted to.
So, while I can totally understand your frustration and fears, being on the other side opens up a whole other door and world of frustration and fears.
I hope that makes sense and doesn't offend you.
BFP#1 Kaitlyn 11-17-04
BFP #2 Matthew pPROM 23w5d 06-03-07, b/33 weeks 8-6-07, d/10-15-07 SIDS,
BFP #3 m/c 8 weeks 2/20/09, BFP #4 m/c no hb 6w4d, m/c 9w4d, D&C 11w2d, BFP #5 C/P 12/18/09 after BFP- 9dpo
BFP #6 Samantha- 11-9-10
BFP #7 4/20/12 21 DPO beta: 2382 29 DPO beta: 23000! HB 6w2d 116 bpm due Christmas day!
This Momma's Journey
~Today I am pregnant and I love my baby~
I dont think you are out of line .... BUT
I had a loss, has a successful preganancy and just recently had another loss...
I understand where you are coming from...I do. I had that fear after our first loss. after having a second loss and having an 18 month old DD, I found that having a child does NOT make it any easier. in fact for me, it made it more difficult, not only the grieving process but the fact that (PLEASE do not take offense to this) I knew what i was missing by losing this DC. I am amazed by DD every day and it DEVISTATED me that I would not have the opportunity to be amazed by this DC....
each member of this(and MC/PL) board is such an amazing woman and each has different feelings and circumstances...I think some may be put off by your post, but it is an honest opinion and no one can begrudge you for that.
I also will add that perhaps the mc/pl board wasn't the best place to post this?
There are many newly grieving women there who have children and recently had losses who read this board and might not be ready to hear some of this.
Just a thought.
Well put Kelz. I'm not in a good "wordy" place tonight.
I think this is one of the hardest things for me. DD is starting to ask bc of all the talk about my SIL's baby. A couple weeks ago she said, "I want to hold a baby" and I told her sort of non-chalantly to go get one of her baby dolls, she stopped and looked at me and said, "No. A 'yeal baby. I be easy.".......it's really heart wrenching when she does stuff like this. She also looked at dh one night and said, "I want a'nudder baby" .......just out of the blue. I want a sibling for her more than I want another child for myself---that's for sure.
And u too Lindsaylou.
"everyone grieves differently" : agreed
yes I understand.. you have both the loss and the fear to deal with.. that makes perfect sense.. and I am sorry it is that way girl (hugs). I would feel the same.
another point to consider : not only am I and dh grieving.. my ds is as well. It is heartbreaking to me as well that he will just start crying telling me he misses the baby and wants the baby back..(as well as tell people we don't even know that his baby is in heaven, sigh)
so we all have different aspects to our situations and our losses that make it hard and sad... I don't think you will get flamed. if someone does I got your back!
I replied on the other board but I will reply here too. Many of the women before me said it so much better than my drinking self could. But I have to agree that though I don't fear being childless with one child, I do feel the guilt for the times I have wanted to stay curled up on the couch and cry and I can't. I feel guilty for all the time I have spent thinking about the baby I lost and not the one I have now.
I know there are many women on this board that already have a child but I find it hard to hit reply and post many times. I have lurked every night since my miscarriage and feel I know you all well, but am hesitant to post myself because I do not want to cause pain when people see my ticker of the baby I do still have.
I don't think you were wrong because it's how you feel, that is never wrong.
Here is what I will say though, I have posted this before on the board. Having children during a loss is a whole different thing to deal with. Yes, some of us already have children so that is one fear we won't have to live with. When we lost Zoe(they don't know about the other losses because we were cautious with telling them) I had to come home and tells my daughters that their sister died. The pain that came along with that I will never be able to explain to anyone. When you have to tell children that their sibling died, you can no longer grieve for yourself because you have to worry about how they feel.
So, I think that it is a different kind of pain, I am in pain for myself and for my children. You are in pain for your loss and for your fear of never having something you long for. Both are completely ligitiment.
Sending lots of hugs to everyone tonight.
I posted it on purpose, though, on mc/pl because there have been quite a few posts/debates in the last day or two about the board members' comfort level with people posting with pregnancy tickers and/or baby siggy pics. I contributed to each of those debates saying that I think everyone who has had a loss is welcome on mc/pl no matter how many kids they have.
My goal was to increase understanding. Basically, I was hoping people who could kind of see where we're (childless women) are coming from.
I did just see this, it's all good.
I can admit I'm a little over sensitive to this....not naming names, but there was an incidence this summer when someone flat out said that those of us with children should just be thankful for what we have and we don't hurt as much as them (in a few more words, but that's the gist of it). It wasn't pretty.
I remember this, it hurt.
Oh don't worry about it. EVERYTHING that women who have children have so far contributed to this particular conversation (on mc/pl and this thread) are challenges I NEVER considered (because I don't have kids). I only see my own struggle and it's easy for me to think the proverbial grass is always greener. I think both these posts are good b/c they're opening my eyes.
I will answer this completely honestly in my half cocked state. Sadly, you're right. I thank God everyday that I have my son, and that I'm not going through this with my first pregnancy. Does it make the wound hurt less?? No, I still lost a child. I am however able to go on with full faith that I will have another child. I also believe that all of you will have healthy babies someday, but have thought that this would be much sadder if I didn't have ds. I hope that made sense 7 drinks in.....
I think you're right. I am a mom, and you are not. I hurt in every way that you hurt over your loss, but you don't have an older child. Does that make the pain of the loss any less?? NO. Does that make you more scared about the future. Maybe.
As I drunkendly respond to this 5 times....I totally agree, I feel like my grief has negatively interfered with my parenting for the last month, and I hate it.
This. This is the best way I could respond to your post. I to have a child...the sadness isn't easy. I can't be around infants right now even though i have a two year old...I almost walked out on new years tonight when a 6 month old baby was there and I looked like i wanted to run i'm sure to most people there. Like this poster said easier maybe in the sense that I have a reason to work thru my loss but having my son has not made my grieving process or me moving on any easier...I cry my eyes out and am absolutely miserable at times like people with no children at all. I feel like an absolute failure at times as a parent because I could not fix things with this loss and make her a healthy little girl. Your post doesn't anger me though it is like anything else you just don't know how people deal unless your in that situation and it works both ways for you not having any children witha loss and someone having a child then a loss. This may seem like a ramble I am a little buzzed at the moment.
I hear ya, OP. And I'm not sure you're out of line. Your feelings are valid, so long as you acknowledge that there is pain. There *IS* pain. And I'm not sure it's less because I have two kids. It's different. Maybe less. Mostly different.
After all, you haven't had to listen to your 3 year old son say "We'll have babies once the babies in mommy's belly stop dying" or explained to a 7 year old why . . . well, you know. So yeah, it's different. Neither better nor worse. Just different.
I mean, I see your point and your feelings are yours (which, incidentally, is the same thing I said to the poster who said it this summer), my kids have largely carried me through this year. And for that I fully understand I should be grateful.
My Blog
This conversation has been immensely helpful to me. I think at first (please forgive me) I did think it would be easier to deal with this if I already had a child and knew I was a mommy. But now, reading the responses of the women with other children, I realize it's the same grief manifested in different ways. I grieve that I lost a child, any child, because that is what I want most in the words and fear most not having. But perhaps if I already knew what it was to be a mother raising a child, I would grieve the chance to raise that specific child.
Anyway, I'm glad we (you) could discuss something so amazingly painful and personal and heartfelt with grace and compassion--several drinks in, no less.
Baby Boy Smudgie born 10/4/11
<a href="http://s837.photobucket.com/albums/zz298/triple_sevens/?action=view
I am impressed and gratified by the quality of this conversation. Thank you everyone for your honesty and openness.
I have thought about this a lot, since I have a 2 1/2 yo DS. I know that, in many ways, I would be struggling much more if I did not have him - both because he gets me out of bed each day, whether I want to or not, and because I know I would be paralyzed by the thought that I would never have the chance to parent a child. I feel so deeply for those of you in that situation.
But, as so many have said so well, there are also particular struggles with having losses after having a child. My son so clearly wants and would be wonderful with a younger sibling, and I am terrified it will never happen. I do wish I had time to really take in a grieve these losses, and I am worried about the ways they affect my parenting, and the ways they may catch up with me in the future.
I am very glad to have a place here where I feel I can share my experience with people whose experiences are similar, but also very much your own.
Thanks.
And this thread is why I love this board. A level-headed discussion about something so sensitive and emotional that we all share.
On any other board it would have turned into a trainwrecked hot mess of epic proportions.
TY
FWIW-I've always wondered if my DS ticker (and sometimes pic) bothers people. I really hope it doesn't because that would make me sad.
Very honest, but yes out of line.
We've all been through struggles in life, some more than others.
I've been watching one alcoholic after another come into my life, watched my mom get abused by two bf's for years on end, one bf cheated on her repeativively, I'm been sexually abused by two seperate people numerous times, etc etc etc (I could go on about how my childhood sucked) so when all I want is to have as many children as I want to be a little easier cause the rest of my childhood wasn't very child like, than so be it.
Do I think I deserve it more than the next person though, absolutely not. What makes one person more worthy than the other???
I also seriously doubt that what I felt after having my first, second AND third m/c was any less real or hard (after having healthy kids) than someone who doesn't have any at all.
I don't think you are wrong necessarily, but I think to some extent it felt like you were trying to quantify sadness and I don't think it works that way. I don't think my sadness is greater than yours or vice versa, but it is probably different as it is with all of us. I can understand the fear of being childless. I will tell you that after my losses and then nine more months of trying after the last loss, I started having anxiety attacks that something would happen to my son and I am not a paranoid mom. These episodes were almost debilitating. And I recognize now that I essentially had ppd after my m/c's. I couldn't work anymore. I left school. I stopped talking to friends. I felt like I was failing my husband and my son. I had to start going to therapy. I could not deal with my sadness and I think it was intensified by having this amazing child and wondering if God thought I was a bad mother and wouldn't give me more (I know that sounds silly, but I was not rational).
So the only reason I am telling you this is because I think a lot of us with children feel guilty being sad or bitter or angry on the loss boards. As though we don't deserve to grieve openly because we have been blessed. We still lost though and those losses affected us in profound ways. So I wish we wouldn't try to create a separation between us. We're all mothers, we've all lost our babies.