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3rd Trimester
soko987
member
Controversial topic, what do you guys think?
soko987
member
https://www.cnn.com/2009/US/12/21/iraq.us.soldiers.pregnancy/index.html
Troops becoming pregnant/ impregnating while deployed in Iraq will be punished by court martial.
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Re: Controversial topic, what do you guys think?
They're not saying pregnancy= prison. It's ANY soldier who makes themselves nondeployable for reasons they can control- not just soldiers who get pregnant.
I agree.
Complete bullshitt.
I might be rushing to judgment here, but it does not sound like the people gettng pregnant are married couples. In fact, they may be committing adultry, which is not only a court martial-able offense, but also still techniqually illegal in many states (including VA where I live).
Not that I agree with it- what people do with each other is not my business soas long as it is not harmful to others. It seems like the military is desperate to keep the people they have for as long as they can.
If they have consequences, it should apply to both men & women. As long as they do that then I think it's allowable.
I think adultery is still an offense that they can be court-martialed for. I doubt many of the pregnancy cases are for married couples stationed together.
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This. And I seem to remember reading somewhere that there were women admitting to TRYING to get pregnant so they could be sent home.
I'm against anyone walking away from their commitment.
And accidental "hey, I was on leave and met my husband/boyfriend did you know birth control is only 99% effective?" Isn't reason to be court martialed.
Of course, like the other PP said - if they're commiting adultery and this is proof, that is- and has always been -a court-martialable offense. I hope the guys involved are being punished, too.
Ultimately, I think it's a decision that should happen on a case-by-case basis.
I think I'd have to agree with this.
Just asked hubby who was a marine.... He says, "no sexy time in war"
he totally thinks that they should get in trouble. Especially if you're over sea's....You have a JOB to do. One that you signed up for. When he was in afganistan(sp) and on base but know they were going to get deployed NO SEX.
He said that when they were on base, if they got a sunburn, they were "defaceing government property" what do you think would happen if you get knocked up, leave your troop one man/woman short and have to spent time and money to get you home safely...
Hmmm, the more I think of it... The more I'm totally for it! DON'T HAVE SEX
(can no one keep it in their pants?)
Should you get pregnant while deployed? No.
Should you be court-martialed for it if you become pregnant? Hell no.
I doubt this will result in fewer pregnancies, if anything it could result in more backdoor abortions and false accusations of sexual assault (since victims of sexual assault are not subject to this new policy).
This.
There are foolproof ways to avoid pregnancy...
If you've signed up to be there, you've chosen to abide by the military's rules. Seems fine to me. I wouldn't want to live by that rule; but I guess that's why I never signed up for the military!
The guys who get the girl pregnant have the same consequences as the girl.
All of the branches have a clause in their contract saying "fraternizing" with another soldier or while deployed is prohibited. While it sucks, the ladies knew the rules when they were signing up. Should it be a rule? Probably, although it's a sticky situation.
A little off topic: My good friend is a Navy Medic so he's in the front lines with the Marines. He told me the rules also say it's against the rules to have sex at home in any other position than missionary. You are never to let your guard down and become a topic. You also have to be married and abortions are not permitted.
Proud Mama to Mickey (12.03.09) and Nemo (06.06.13)
My sister purposely became pregnant while being deployed because she wanted all the benefits of being in the military without actually having to do her job. She then became pregnant three more times so that she wouldn't have to go back.
While not every women is my sister I donot believe that this is a "sexist" or cruel policy. This decision would be a way to discourage women like my sister against purposely becoming pregnant.
I feel for the men. When a women in the military becomes pregnant while stationed anywhere overseas they are brought back to the states. The father of the child is not brought back, just the mom. She is also cleared of most physical duties, no matter what her job is. If she is like my sister and had a physical job she is given a desk job and also given special treatment because everyone is scared that if they don't then they are going to be brought up on charges of harassment and other bull crap charges. I am sure there are a few men out there that would like to be able to leave Iraq or go home to visit their families but they have to suck it up while some women just have to get knocked up.
This is to prevent women like my sister from popping out children like a pez dispenser so that she can collect free health care, have a stable job all without actually having to do anything.
It sounds cruel but it isn't. There are a lot of very good female soldiers who serve with honor and dignity and they should be treated with all the respect they deserve unfortunately there are also a lot of female soldiers that will do anything to get out of having to do their duty.
while I don't agree with the instruction. I do know that if your pregnant and are sent back from IRQ or AFG after you have the baby they don't want you to go straight back you have a year before they want to send you back.
At least in the NAVY thats how it is so your leaving a billet open for at least two year maybe more.
Before a ship goes on deployment we usually have alot of women who turn up pregnant and it does put the rest of us in a bind, we don't get a person who can fill for them and that is frustrating.
I wonder if NAVY people who are IA will fall under that rule too?
Other than permanent sterilization, what is foolproof? (Says the woman with a baby conceived under a "perfect" IUD situation)
We have Navy deployed to Iowa??
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While I can understand why some people would have a problem with it, I'm not necessarily opposed to it.
When DH was in the Army, one of the female soldiers in his company purposely got pregnant RIGHT before a deployment so she wouldn't have to go and then 1 more got knocked up while deployed because she didn't want to be there anymore -- these girls confided this info in DH because he was friends with them so I'm not just making this up, fyi. It's like an epidemic it seems because I've heard of the same stuff happening in other companies (like those that friends' DHs are in) too.
Also, sex between soldiers is strictly forbidden when they are deployed. I'm sure there are many reasons, like keeping focus on the mission and not on bf/gf/hook-up drama, and it's a good rule. If someone gets pregnant while deployed they're already breaking a rule/military law/code of ethics and they should be punished accordingly. It's probably always been written somewhere that they can/will be court-martialed but now it's just going to be enforced (or now will be enforced there instead of waiting until they return to US soil for punishment).
There was so much sex and drama going on during DH's deployment that I wish his command would have done something about it. Would you want the guy who is supposed to be watching your husband/son/friend/brother's back to be more focused on his recent romantic entanglements than on keeping himself and fellow soldiers alive?
uhhhh keep it in your pants?? or outta your pants I guess if you're a girl.
I understand the other side. They signed up for it, it irresponsible, etc.
HOWEVER, its completely sexist. It takes two people to make a baby.
Well put.
Jordandice & Spappy - ITA.
I've just heard so much lately about different BC methods being "foolproof" that I makes me chuckle.
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I am a former Marine and my husband is currently active duty. (I got pregnant AFTER I got out!)
1st I will say that a Court-Martial doesn't necessarily mean a horrible punishment. And the reason they typically make a CM punishment for something is because too many jackasses screwed up. So there's a good reason for it.
2nd - I would NEVER have dreampt of getting pregnant or "hooking up" while deployed. ARE YOU EFFIN KIDDING ME? The enemy could attack at any and all times (you try running from the showers in your shorts and sports bra while bombs and bullets are flying). Case in point....if my people need me, and I'm caught with my pants down for some guy - husband or not, SHAME ON ME! You are to be mission ready AT ALL TIMES. That time it takes to collect yourself together could mean someone's life.
- My husband's 2nd tour was especially horrific and would wake up with his hand on his grenade because the enemy was so aggressive.
Granted, Iraq is nothing like it was in 03-06. In fact many describe it as a "duty station" because it's gotten so garrison (boring). BUT the fact remains....you must ALWAYS BE MISSION/COMBAT ready.
I LOVE MY THREE KIDS!
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I think they should court martial both parties. General Order 1 is always in effect when we deploy and we all know that sex while deployed is punishable under the UCMJ. This is nothing new honestly.
NAVY IA= Individual Augmentee, these are billets Navy people volunteer for to go overseas to IRQ, AFG,or AFR.
its for a year or longer depending on the sailor and if they are needed..
THIS
2nd and 7th General Orders (USMC) are both applicable big time.
And yes...if you don't want to follow the UCMJ then don't sign up in the military.
These were both great points.
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I was stationed on a ship for four and a half years, deployed twice.
my dh and I met on the ship and I never even thought about getting pregnant to leave the ship. I know how hard it is for the people left behind to pick up the slack, and i didnt want to owe that time back to the Navy to be put on a ship.
We waited until we came on shore and tried to conceive and here I am one year later.
People who are saying it's sexist- read the article again!
Here is the very first sentence of the article. Note the underlined:
A new order from the general in charge of northern Iraq makes getting pregnant or impregnating a fellow soldier an offense punishable by court-martial.
Getting pregnant= woman
Impregnating a fellow soldier= man
BOTH parties will be punished- it is not sexist.
IA = Individual Augmentee. The Navy might say they need X amount of people who do Y job to help complete a mission in Z country. They try to fill the spot by asking for volunteers but if the spot(s) aren't filled then someone gets "voluntold" to go. DH had a chance to go IA to Cuba to work at Gitmo.
My opinion as a Navy Wife...keep it in your pants while you're deployed.
I am in total agreement with this. Our soldiers are there doing a job, not to be having sexy time and getting KTFU
They should have major consequences if pregnancy occurs, and I think, even if they are caught doing it in the first place.
Like a PP said, I don't have a problem with the new order, I'm just concerned about the fact that it could potentially lead to underground abortions, hidden pregnancies that subsequently get no early prenatal care, etc. I certainly don't think problems like this could become rampant, but honestly, one is too many.
I know it also applies to the men, but that doesn't necessarily make it fair for all involved--after all, in the case of a pregnant woman, there is a third, totally innocent party to consider. Not a simple situation by any means.