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New Poster--Question re: kissing at day care
Hi all,
Longtime lurker here who appreciates the conversation and good advice on this board.
Background: We have a 6-month old son who started day care 5 weeks ago. He was a preemie and in the hospital for a month after birth and I stayed home with him for an additional 3.5 months until he was ready to get out there in day care--and now he is huge and healthy (19 pounds!) but we still have concerns about daycare and health issues. As far as the day care goes--the place is absolutely great--it's a center but is independently owned, has two infant rooms, two toddler rooms, and two preschool rooms. One of the directors has two of her own kids there and the staff has all been wonderful. My son has adjusted beautifully and is obviously thrilled to see his two teachers every morning and is happy when we pick him up at the end of the day. We are loving this place in general and feel 110 percent happy with our choice.
Last week, we noticed a few teachers giving kisses to kids on the cheek. I saw one of my son's teachers give him kisses on the cheek in the morning when I dropped him off, three mornings in a row. I honestly have no problem with teachers giving him affection--I want my son to be comfortable and feel loved all day; and he is a baby who needs that contact!--but the kissing bothered me for several reasons. First, it's cold season--my son has already been sick twice, and there are 6 other babies in the room. If teacher is kissing them, then kissing him--isn't this a prime way to spread germs? Second, it made my husband and I both uncomfortable in terms of boundaries. We like our son to be hugged, held, and cuddled but just feel that the kissing is over the line somehow. The best way I can describe it is that if my son were in kindergarten, I would not expect teacher to be kissing him--and the same standards should apply here. Third, we saw teachers we did not know from other rooms, who sometimes fill in for teachers in other rooms, kissing kids. We would never want someone we don't know kissing our son!
We made the call to approach one of the directors to request that our son not be kissed for reasons above. When I did so, I was very uncomfortable and apologetic and stressed how happy we were with the center and teachers in general. The director responded well--immediately said of course to my request--but also said it was simple affection. I think they think I'm a cold fish now, and one of the teachers (the one who had been kissing my son at drop off, though I never named her name to the director) is treating me a bit coldly (she smiles but avoids eye contact now). The head teacher has been fine. We love, love, love both of these teachers and how they've been with our son, and now I feel that there has been some sort of souring of the relationship, which I would hate.
I guess my questions are:
1. Would you feel uncomfortable with day care teachers kissing your kids? I assume this would be different based on whether you had a nanny (only one person and one kid) vs. center (two teachers, several kids)...or maybe not. If this happens at your day care, do you just allow it, or has it never come up?
2. Given that we were uncomfortable, did we make the right call in saying something to the director? We couched in in terms of seeing it happen with different teachers and different kids, including our kid, which is why I went to the director. However, should we have said something directly to our son's teacher instead?
3. How should we handle the cold shoulder from his teacher? I figure I'll give it a week (we said something late last week so today was our first day back) and if she continues to be awkward then maybe I should address with her directly, saying it was not personal but for health reasons, etc.
Thanks in advance for replies....this has been worrying me.
This discussion has been closed.
Re: New Poster--Question re: kissing at day care
I would have talked to the teacher directly and I would have focused on the health concerns only. I think when you went into the area of boundaries, you start passing judgement on how other people do things. Not that you intended this, but yes - it can come across as judgement.
Also- this isn't kindergarten. These teachers are much more involved (due to teacher: child ratios) in your childs day to day activities than a teacher in a classroom would be, so they probably do get more attached. Just food for thought.
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
1. Yes, I have noticed that my son's teacher kisses him. It doesn't bother me per se, but I notice it. It is weird to see a non-family member kissing your son. I think that if I did bring it up, we would get the SAME EXACT reaction that you got, i.e. the teacher would take offense and it would upset the teacher-parent relationship. I am too much of a chicken to do what you did, in all honesty, probably because she's been doing it for 7 months now and DS has been healthy.
2. I think if it bothered you, then you were right to bring it up. I agree that it was appropriate to take it to the director because it was more than one teacher.
3. Just let it go for a week or two. I'll bet she'll come around when she sees that you aren't treating her any differently.
Honestly, the teachers at my school have smothered the boys with kisses since they were 3 months old. I love them SO, SO much for it. Remember the kids know the teachers better than you do.
In terms of germs - I guess it is a valid concern? But I never worried about it.
I'm not sure how I would feel-- DD gets germs from anyplace, so kissing wouldn't necessarily raise red flags. But given that you were concerned, you had to say something-- I couldn't keep seeing something I was concerned about and just let it go.
Maybe the tone of your request did not come across to the teachers, so she is more upset than she should be. I guess I would say something directly at this point-- "I hope you weren't offended by my request-- blah blah blah or whatever you said to the director. And maybe offer to take up future issues directly?
1. I think it's sweet when the teachers give my kids kisses!
Comparing it to kindergarten is a little silly- your kindergarten teacher won't be wiping your kids butt or feeding them with a spoon, etc.
2. As far as germs, the kids are putting their hand in their mouths all day after touching toys, the floor, and each other. There's not a thing you can do about that, so the kissing is much less of a concern, IMO. But you are the parent and you should make that call for your own child.
3. Regarding the cold shoulder, I'd let it go for a week or two. Over time they'll stop, I am sure. It's probably just fresh in their minds.
I think you should have gone to the teacher directly. Putting yourself in their shoes, it's really sweet that they love your kid enough to want to kiss them and then you go to the director who tells them you don't like them doing that. It's a little bit cold. I think you should definitely tell the teachers that it isn't personal and you love that they love your kid enough to want to kiss them and that the affection is truly appreciated. Then tell them that purely for health reasons you are trying to avoid this type of contact from anyone, particularly during cold/flu season. In fact, I know some moms that won't even kiss their own kids during cold/flu season. I think that reaching out to them and letting them know how much you appreciate them will go a long way towards helping your relationship with them.
And to answer question #1, yes, both of my kids had the same primary teacher in their class and she was the only one who kissed them. It never bothered me and I never said anything to her about it. I appreciate(d) that she loves my kids enough to want to kiss them.
It wouldn't/doesn't bother me. My thoughts are that DD spends so much time with the daycare provider(s) that I would rather have that affection and feel loved while she is there. But that is me, and you have to go with what feels right for you.
If you feel uncomfortable, it is right that you said something. I think talking to the director is good because there are multiple teachers that have contact with your child, but you might want to have an individual conversation with the main teacher that has the most contact with your son to let her know that it is not personal, just health-related.
It wouldn't bother me...
I have come to terms that if she is going to get sick there she is going to get sick there.
My honest reaction - are you f'ing kidding?
You hear all the time about how horrible daycare centers are, because it's just "strangers raising your kids", and that those strangers don't really care about the kids anyway and they're just there for the paycheck (I could barely type that without laughing). That no one else but family could possibly love your child and show them affection.
You have what sounds to be a great daycare, where the caregivers love and care about the kids that they watch. One that goes against all of those ignorant stereotypes about daycare centers. And you're not happy with that? You'd rather the caregivers be the cold, distant strangers that fit the ignorant stereotype?
No, I'm not uncomfortable at all to see DS's caregivers kiss his face. I've never seen them kiss on his mouth, but they have always kissed his cheeks and head. I'm not even worried about the germs - they're not slobbering all over him when they kiss him. My DS gets more exposure to germs from all of his snotty nosed classmates than he does kisses on the cheek from his teacher.
I think that going straight to the Director instead of first talking about your concerns with the teacher made you look like you had something personal against that teacher, so I understand her cold shoulder to you. Explaining to her now that you went to the Director to complain about her affection for "health reasons" might help, but I honestly think that the damage is done. That teacher is always going to feel that you have something against her and don't want her interacting much with your son. To most outside people, that is what it looks like - your reaction and response to something so benign (and nice to most people) was over-the-top.
Thanks, ladies--please keep the opinions coming.
I am starting to wonder if my husband and I are really sensitive to this because of our experience with him as a preemie. It was so long before we even had him home and in a "non-sterile" environment, let alone until we had people (family!) holding him for extended periods of time, and we were SO paranoid for the first three months in terms of exposure, etc. This experience seems to have colored our feelings on other things.
So far, I am not regretting saying something but think I will probably reach out to the two primary teachers to clear up any misunderstandings about our motivations. We're not trying to make value judgments--it's mostly health, but probably also personal protectiveness due to our experiences with his prematurity.
In the end- I'm w/ many of the others. DS gets germs from SO many other places. Kisses just don't bother me. Plus I can't stop myself from kissing his chubby little cheeks- I can see why others can't stop either!
BUT- you have concerns from him being a preemie adn I can understand that. You just need to give the teachers the chance to understand that too.... I think if they hear it directly from you, it will let them know it's not THEM.
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
My son was a preemie and we didn't allow ANYONE except DH and I to kiss him until RSV season ended last year (so April, he was 9 months old). This was the recommendation of our pedi and I didn't feel bad about it. I did see a teacher at daycare kiss him and I told the director. She asked all staff not to kiss the children, especially during RSV season.
As for the teacher, she will get over it. She works for you and if you are annoyed with your boss for asking you to correct a mistake, he does apologize for saying it. You have nothing to feel bad about.
1. Our day care teachers smother the kiddos with hugs, kisses, and affection, and I love it - it's one of the reasons we chose the daycare center we did. Our son is only 19 months old - especially for the toddler and infant set, including your son's age, I feel pretty strongly about finding loving, affectionate child care. Being able to attach is important for their sense of security, which enables them to learn and explore. I don't think it's at all the same as kindergarteners - those are much older children, who are much more capable of being independent and feeling secure away from their parents. That being said, I think there are all kinds of other forms of physical affection other than kissing that can help kids bond with caregivers, but I am guessing that with kids wiping runny noses on shirts, etc. - the germs are gonna spread, like it or not.
Especially after 6 months, when the kids are getting mobile, crawling, drooling, letting their noses drip and chewing on things - I think the germs that spread by a kiss on the cheek are going to be the least of your concern.
2. That's up to you. I don't there's any "great" way to say that, whether it goes directly to the teacher or through the director.
3. From what you said, she's still being polite and professional - and I would leave it at that. I might make an extra effort, actually, to let her know how much you appreciate their care and love with your child, and maybe mention how worried you have been with flu season and that your concern with illness is what's making you extra careful.
I don't mean this to sound like a flame at all, but is there maybe another setup for childcare that would help you feel more comfortable with limiting your child's exposure to germs?
My DS had a weak immune system and had a very long string of illnesses when he started daycare - ear infections, sinus infections, influenza, and stomach flu - you name it! He was pretty much sick for 4 months. Finally the only way for us to get piece of mind, and a little relief from constant illness, was to pull him out of daycare for a few months until he got bigger and stronger. Granted, it was more work and could have been more expense to find one-on-one care, but it was worth it to know that he could get bigger and stronger. He's back at daycare now and has only had a few minor colds.
Given your concern with him being a preemie, and what SBMBride406 said, that might help. I think that the daycare experience exposes him to more germs than the kisses, KWIM?
Thanks, SBMBride. I think it's hard for folks to understand the perspective of a preemie parent--it's a lot of "get over it, he looks fine, he's going to encounter germs anywhere," but that is hard to do after you've seen your kid hooked up to respiratory machines for weeks on end.
In any case we feel comfortable with our decision. We love the day care and other forms of affection they show and will make sure they know that once again.
It's interesting because the "real life moms" I know and have brought this up to (with full-term kiddos) were surprised about the kissing in day care and would have also said something. I guess everyone is different--and I think parents have the right to make those personal decisions for their own families.
I totally understand - worrying about germs, etc. was so stressful for us last spring, I think you're definitely thinking it through. I wish you guys lots of luck! There really are a lot of benefits to the daycare setting, and our son is just loving it now!
I love it when DD's teachers kiss, hug, and smother her with love. That's what I'd be doing if I was watching her during the day and that's the type of affection I'd like her caregivers to give.
Honestly, I hope this doesn't happen to you, but if I were a teacher who got reprimanded by my director for showing too much love to one particular child, I'd be less inclined to give that child any attention over and above what is required of me.
I'm totally with you. I'd be so paranoid of offending the parents and getting reprimanded by my boss again that I'd go out of my way NOT to give the child any affection. Not in a bad way, but only I'd only be willing to touch that child as much as neccessary for things like diaper changes and whatnot. Nothing extra, lest I get in trouble again.
I'm trying to understand the "preemie/germs" argument........but honestly, if your child has that fragile of an immune system a daycare center really isn't the best place for your child to be. You can order the caregivers not to kiss your child, but you can't order the other children to not have runny noses and to not put things in their mouth. If your kid gets sick in a daycare setting it's not because the teacher kissed him on the cheek - to think otherwise is pretty farfetched to me.
Well, thanks boondocks and maybride! I just asked for what you would personally do; whether you think I am being ridiculous or "farfetched" I do not particularly care. I still feel that my husband and I were right to bring it up; whether or not you understand where I am coming from, again, no worries for me (and believe me, I have heard a lot of "I don't understand your preemie perspective" --either they're fine or they're sickly, right? Wrong, and guess what? You don't have to understand. You are lucky.) Plus, as I mentioned, there are other parents I've spoken to in person who are also wary of kisses at day care. Opinion--fine--different from you--also fine! I totally get why some of you like the kissing. For us it doesn't feel right.
From these postings I was hoping to get a fuller picture of other parents' perspectives and potential reactions of the center staff, and in that this was really helpful. I also, last time I checked, had the right to make requests at the place that I trust with the care of my child for the day. So, thanks to those of you who are responding honestly about your own thoughts and how to address the three points above. That has been instructive.
I didn't mean to say that you were "farfetched". But yeah - I think that blaming your child's illness on the fact that the caregiver gave him a peck on the cheek rather than blaming it on the fact that your child is playing with a bunch of kids who have runny noses and are drooling and are putting things in their mouths and are touching EVERYTHING is a bit misguided and farfetched.
You can be offended by that if you want to, but I don't see why you would.
1. I'm ok with kissing, as long as it's not on the mouth (which I've never seen anyone do anyway).
I can see the preemie/germ thing though, so maybe in your shoes I'd feel differently about kissing. But honestly, I can tell you the daycare person's mouth (assuming they aren't sick, etc) is probably wayyyy cleaner than the kid's mouth that is slobbering all over the shared toys, etc.
2. I would have gone to the teacher first to be honest. Going to the 'big boss' always puts people on edge.
3. I'd talk to them and try to explain your germ concerns/preemie connection. It may help them understand where you are coming from and warm up more when they know it's not about them/ their behavior....face it, you did 'judge' them whether you meant to or not and basically said that how they are caring for your child was wrong.
I'm quite confident that any illness my DD brings home from daycare isn't due to her teacher giving her a kiss on the head or cheek. It probably comes from that other baby with the snotty nose who slobbered all over the toy my DD just put in her mouth. If DD's teacher was kissing her in a manner that spread a bunch of germy saliva, I'd have a lot bigger issues to deal with.
Honestly, it sounds like this is more of a boundaries issue for you, which is fine, everyone is different, but if I was the teacher and was told it was for health concerns, I'd be thinking that was just an excuse and you didn't want me kissing your kid.
1. No, I would not feel uncomfortable with the kisses. As a pp noted, the kids know the daycare workers well and probably love them. I think it's a sign of affection and so long as it wasn't on the mouth, I would think it's fine. As far as germs are concerned I don't think this would spread them any more than normal playing and sharing of toys, etc. We have a nanny so we're obviously in a different boat, but she gives him kisses all day... I'm happy she does. I want him to know that he is loved, not only by us, but by the person that cares for him while we're away.
2. Tough call. If I were uncomfortable with it, I probably would not have gone to the director. I probably just would have mentioned to the teacher that he was a premie and to watch for physical contact and kissing with both the other kids and the teachers... just so that it would have been more of a request rather than a complaint. I don't blame her for being stand-offish with you now.. now she has to wonder if she's doing the right thing anytime she shows affection to one of the children in her care.
3. I would approach her and tell her that you spoke the director and that it was in no way a criticism of her but rather just an observation and that you're concerned because he was premie. I'd mention what a great job you think she's doing and how happy you are with the care. I'd also tell the director what a great job you think she does.
I feel a little sorry for the teacher. I'm sure the teachers really grow to the love the babies. I would have a hard time taking care of a baby for 9 hours a day and not giving him/her hugs and kisses. She probably thought she was doing a good thing by being affectionate.
1. Doesn't bother me provided they aren't smooching them on their mouths. I've seen it happen and it doesn't bother me.
2. If you were uncomfortable, I think I might have broached it with the lead teacher first. It would annoy me if someone ran to my boss instead of addressing it with me directly first. If it continued to happen after that, then it is time to escalate.
3. I don't think there is much to be done about the cold shoulder issue. I think discussing it further may only exacerbate the situation. You could mention off-hand that you just worry so much with cold and flu season and him being a preemie but I don't think I'd address it to her particularly but let her hear it.
DD -- 5YO
DS -- 3YO
OK..here's a question. A few people have told me I am judging the caregivers, but I feel I am being judged by some on this board for feeling a certain way about displays of affection by non-family--which is a personal thing (for many reasons--health, his preemie status, and just our own personal feelings).
I am not being glib, I am asking this to get an understanding. Set aside the kissing itself--if there was something a teacher was doing at day care that made you uncomfortable, would you not feel you had the right to say something? What if they brought the kids outside without hats or sunscreen and you were worried that your child might get sunburnt, even if they didn't--if you brought up your request to have the kids wear hats in the future, would that be a value judgment on your caregiver? I understand that the kissing might be more sensitive due to the feelings of the DCP and their attachments to the kids, but ultimately you are the parent, you can make a call on what you feel is appropriate for your kid. Do you feel comfortable making such requests, or do you see it as, "I put my kid here, I trust them, I don't say anything because I don't want to upset them"?
And, by the way, the teacher was 1) never named directly (she is one of three primary caregivers for my son); and 2) was not reprimanded or made to be "in trouble"; it was a request, and to be honest it was one that the director honored but seemed to be confused by (ie, I don't think the teacher would have been reprimanded because it is a widely accepted approach at the school).
In retrospect I should have spoken with the teacher in question directly (the only one of the three who is acting a bit off), I admit and can see that now. Since I am relatively new there (5 weeks or so) I have been used to dealing with the directors more frequently, so I think I went with my comfort level there. My mistake, for sure.
I have seen things that I don't agree with (sunscreen, etc) and I talk to the teacher first. The problem is usually corrected.
I'm really wondering if a daycare center is the best option for you. My daughter gets sick all the time in daycare. (Thank God it has gotten better) I know its because parents bring their kids sick to daycare everyday or like my pediatrician told me, the kid that is often the one who is contagious isn't the one that has a fever or the runny nose. It is the kid who seems perfectly healthy. My cousin has a premie (born at 26w) and isn't in daycare at all. She caught whopping cough a couple weeks ago, she was just considered to be full term. Kids are going to get sick and there is little you can do.
Is it really the sick issue or is it that your child is getting affection from the provider?
Once again -- like the affection (yes to holding and hugs! love how they handle him!), don't like mouths on skin. (And, for that matter, mouths on skin with snot, etc. and then on other baby skin--and that goes for the other kids too--my son was the sick one last week with, I am sure, snot and virus particles on his cheeks).
I don't understand why this is considered odd and something that you'd want to limit to as few people as possible during cold season.
At your child's age, everything is going in the mouth or will be going in the mouth shortly. It made me cringe when I saw her put a toy in her mouth that I knew another child had in his/her mouth... but that was the price I paid to have her in a center daycare.
You should probably talk to the teachers about keeping the other children away from him...add all the toys to that list of demands too.
Wow...now I have a "list of demands"--I had no idea! I am fully aware of day care realities and I have no control over toys, etc. I am able to say "hey, listen, I think it's best if he isn't kissed at day care." It's one less point of contact. Maybe that's just a different way of looking at it.
Well, of course! If I felt that the teachers were doing something that could damage/hurt my son, you'd better believe I'd be talking to them about it.
It's just that for the life of me, I can't consider a peck on the cheek to be damaging or hurtful to my child. The germ argument doesn't even hold up, considering the rest of the environment. If it's outside of your comfort level, that's your prerogative and you need to do what makes you comfortable.........but understand that to many people - obviously your child's teachers included - your prerogative is a bit weird and crazy.
Maybride--"weird and crazy"? Now if that's not judgemental, I don't know what is!
I think it is your prerogative to determine what you are comfortable with. With the background of your DS being a preemie, I can certainly understand why you would be more sensitive to the kissing aspect than those of us with full-term babies. So don't apologize for being protective of your DS.
And yes, if there was something going on that I was not comfortable with, I would (and have) spoken to the teacher about it. One thing I have spoken to the director about but it was more an overall staffing issue, not something against a particular teacher.
DD -- 5YO
DS -- 3YO
the teachers at my daycare kiss my son and tell them he loves them. I don't mind it.
I feel like my son is with the daycare for majority of the day so the teachers think of their kids as their own.
If you do not like it say something. but honestly i do not feel it is a big deal. but what do whatever you think is necessary as a parent.