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iris427
member
Should prisoners have to give birth in shackles?
iris427
member
I was reminded of this by an editorial in the NY Times today. ?When I worked as a doula, I'll never forget the time that my client was an incarcerated woman. ?She was being induced (for medical reasons) and she had one arm and one leg shackled to the bed, and two armed guards watching over her. ?I was induced and I can't imagine having my movement that restricted during the pain of Pitocin contractions. ?I thought it was barbaric. ?As if a full-term pregnant woman could outrun or overpower anyone.
She was not a violent offender. ?She was in jail on a bench warrant. ?And the original crime she committed was prostitution. ?The weirdest part about the whole thing was that halfway through my shift, her guards were notified that she was being released and they unshackled her and left. ?So one minute she was supposedly a threat to everyone around her and the next minute, she was just like any other patient.
I can see shackling violent offenders or women who may be a threat to others, themselves or their babies because of mental illness. ?But I think routinely shackling all laboring prisoners is wrong. ?What if there was an emergency and every minute counted and they had to take the time to unlock her arms and legs, or they couldn't move her into a better position fast enough, like in a case of shoulder dystocia? ?Not to mention, it's well known that movement in labor opens the pelvis, helps labor progress and can help with the pain. ?
WDYT?
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Re: Should prisoners have to give birth in shackles?
Barbaric and completely unnecessary.
I remember being in my induced labour with Evan, and there is no way in hell I could outrun ANYONE, least of all two trained guards.
That would be so awful. Ugh.
Okay, my first thought was, no shackles needed if they have an epidural!
But no- it's not like someone is going to make a run for it during labor.
Don't even get me started. This is what I wanted to be the focus of my PhD, birth experiences of imprisoned women.
Its shameful.
That is horrifying. I think that in her case, she should not have been shackled. How absolutely barbaric of our system to require this of incarcerated women, especially for something as minor as prostitution. I can understand if the woman is a danger to everyone around her, but really? You have to shackle a prostitute?
There is no way in hell that I would have been able to outrun someone or run at all, frankly. I had terrible back labor and could hardly get out of bed to pee.
"Life isn't about waiting for the storm to be over, it's about learning how to dance in the rain." -Unknown
Married 3-1-08 | Nathan 11-24-08 | Kaelyn 11-30-10 | Alicia 8-17-13
There's something called the doula project where doulas are paired with prisoners for their birth and apparently its been quite successful in helping women through the ordeal.
As far as I am aware women in Canada are no longer shackled. However, I believe there are differentw ays we oppress these women.
Shackling anyone, especially those with mental health issues is barbaric during labour and indicative of a pathetic system which imprisons women for being prostitutes but who set up "john schools" for men who exploit them.
This exactly.
Barbaric, dehumanizing, disgusting. I can't think of any more adjectives.
While I agree with Lanie, there has to be much precaution taken during labor to make sure these woman are not a threat to the health professionals assisting them.
JM took the words outta my mouth...
Barbaric is the perfect word. That is just cruel and unusual punishment if you ask me.
Where is the article you were reading?
I do agree with ABM that there have to be some precautions taken. However, while I don't have exact statistics, I'd be willing to bet that an overwhelming majority of incarcerated women are not there for violent crimes and have no history of violence.
I am on a Mac and can't figure out how to make it clicky. ? Today's editorial, and a great article the NYT ran on this subject a few years ago:
https://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/21/opinion/21tue4.html?ref=opinion
?https://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/02/national/02shackles.html?fta=y
Ha ha! So true! I think it's ridiculous! I mean, where the hell is she gonna go? Seriously?!
I agree with you if there is violence or mental illness, but otherwise- WHY?
this freaks me the f out!
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That was to whoever has the baby faced kitten as their siggy.?
You weren't shackled to a bed involuntarily with guards surrounding you. Quite different, I'd assume.
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Right, but its not like being shackled is going to prevent her from giving birth.?
Missing the point eleventy billion percent.?
Uh, that was not the point. Yes, you CAN give birth while shackled to a bed, but is demeaning, barbaric and all around a disgusting practice. You were not pinned to a bed against your will.
I'm feeling "meh" about this one.
You broke the law. Your "ideal" birth is no longer a priority, in my eyes.
Also, I think shackling them is far safer for mother and baby than not and then having to chase down and overpower a laboring woman....you'd think she wouldn't try to escape but if she's in prison she obviously doesn't have the most logical thought process out there...
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No, I got the point. I think that they are in jail for a reason, and while it sucks to have to give birth shackled you CAN do it. If that is one of the penalties of being in jail then maybe she shouldn't have done whatever it is that she did to be in jail AND pregnant in the first place.?
Oppress? They're convicted criminals! Prison is supposed to be oppressive. Its not Day Camp for those that made an Oopsie.
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this is what im saying..?
LOL no one is talking about ideal births and it's funny to me that some of you miss that point. ?It's medically worse for the mother and child to be shackled, for reasons I listed in my OP. ?When you commit a crime in the US, you are still entitled to the same medical treatment as anyone else. ?The state cannot put you at medical risk just because you broke a law.
There are times in childbirth where every minute counts. ?In an emergency c/s, taking the time to remove shackles can make the difference between life and death. ?There are times in childbirth where freedom of movement can be life-saving (for example, shoulder dystocia and similar situations). ?
It's not about prisoners having a wonderful and peaceful delivery. ?It's about basic human rights, for mother and child, that aren't negated just because she committed a crime. ?If you can't muster up any sympathy for the mother, at least consider the welfare of the child being born.?
Many women are in prison for things that are absurd. Absurd. Being in prison for prostitution is absurd.
You rarely get time for beating your wife with a steel bar.
And I think you both are missing the point completely.
Also, women are raped a lot in prison by the people who guard them. That's just a fact. That ther esult would be a bound birth is disgusting and indicative of an absurd society.
The policy in our hospital is to shackle prisoners 100% of the time, whether you are giving birth, having chemotherapy, or having a heart attack. The hosptial is liable for protecting that patient as well as all of the other patients in the hospital. There might be other ways, but as far as shackling some people and not others, I think that idea is kind of ridiculous. Who would make that decision? The doc? The prison guards? The hospital should employ someone specifically for that? What are the criteria? How would that practically work? What do you think that consequences would be if that person was wrong?
I bet your paper is going to be really great.
Any number of you could become more threatening risks to health care professionals during labour than a prostitute.
If the woman is a cannibal and known to chop doctors up with scissors then I believe armed guards wouldn't be a bad idea.
But lets face it, most of the women doing time are there for reasons men would never be doing time for.