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If you could write abortion law in America...
If you could write abortion law in America what would you have it say? I see a lot of debate about abortion on these boards but I don't think it is just about being pro-choice or pro-life. There is a huge gray area. So am curious about what you think the laws should be.
In my "perfect world":
I would make abortion legal with mandatory coverage by insurance until 18 weeks. I would make abortion after this conditional on issues such as risk of health to the mother, fatal genetic problems in the baby, rape, incest, and the extra-ordinary situations based on the opinion from an independant medical/legal review committee.
At the same time I would want to set a better system for women who want to keep their babies but feel pushed into abortion because of work constraints, poverty, education, family pressure. Specifically making childcare for low-income families and single mothers accessible and reasonable while delivering quality care. I would also expect the state to provide pre and post natal care so that the issue of health insurance did not cause people to chose abortion.
That is all I could think of but I would interested in hearing other people's points of view and having them bring up other factors I haven;t thought about.
This discussion has been closed.
Re: If you could write abortion law in America...
I think you're crazy for writing this. There is still time to DD before everyone wakes up and gets online! This may get seriously ugly.
okay so you are making an angry symbol but you aren't saying what you think the law should be? I guess I was really curious as to whether pro-life people in particular were completely against abortion or if they found cases where it could be legal.
And in case you are curious the insurance has to be with preventing dangerous "back door" abortions for people who can't afford which had traditionally lead to many woman dying of infection.
Wayyyyyyyyy too early for this.
But I'll sip my coffee and watch the implosion.
ETA: But I am not disagreeing with what you're saying. I just can't add anything til I have woken up the brain a little more...lol
I like what you said about the better programs for women who feel they must abort. I've always really believed that if we put more effort into our social services programming, that we could really move ourselves into a place where abortions are used far less often. Where women (and couples) felt secure having their baby, even if it's in less than stellar circumstances.
Making abortion illegal doesn't address the need for a stronger support base for these women.
She was stating an opinion and asked everyone to state theirs. An angry face is not sufficient, although we all know how you feel regardless.
I agree with what you said, Euro. But I don't know if I necessarily agree with making it mandatory for insurance to cover it. I understand what you are getting at with the illegal abortions due to not being able to afford it, but I think there should be separate programs for helping women pay for such things.
I think it must be very sad to be so desperate and out of options that you have an abortion. I don't feel angry at these women. I don't know their situation, their heart, their life. I think that taking this option away would be a tragic mistake that would lead us back to the time when women had to perform abortions on themselves or get one from an untrained stranger. The likelihood of it being botched is so high that it is frightening.
Do you think that a woman is ever okay with herself after she has an abortion? I don't think so. I think that making the decision must be heart breaking, and I have no right to judge it. That is between her and her God, not me.
ETA: I love the idea of there being more programs out there for women who are thinking of having an abortion - education is key. I would love it if there were a follow up program for women who do have abortions so that they can receive support. I would also love it if there were programs for women who end up keeping the babies or giving them up for adoption. I'm all about support.
I see no issue with insurance being mandated to cover abortions. Our provincial health insurance program in Ontario covers abortions, last I checked. I see no problem with that.
Allowing something to be legal that many women don't have access to, is not really a choice. KWIM?
Yes, but you also have universal health care in your country. It is different when you are dealing with private insurance. I think that there would be a huge explosion of ignorance and stupidity if America decided that all insurance would cover abortions. I would have no problem with my insurance covering it, but think about Adamwife - imagine how her head would implode at the 'sinful' nature of it. If there were private organizations that helped women pay for it, I think that would be a better choice at the moment.
Does that make any sense at all? I have not had coffee yet.
Yes. As soon as I hit post on that reply, I thought "oh. yeah. Our 'insurance' stuff is so completely different". It's really not a comparison.
You guys need universal health care as well. Then I can get more involved in discussions...lol
A private source of funding is a good alternative.
I don't understand why insurance should have to cover something unless it is medically necessary. I don't really understand health insurance at this point in my life anyway, but I have never had it cover something "random". If a woman is going to be physically harmed by carrying a baby, I can understand. But just because a woman wants to abort.... that isn't the insurance's responsibility.
Perhaps I misread OP?
And my stance, it would be illegal.
Because I think you need a buffer between the time a fetus is viable and the last possible time an abortion can take place. I also think that someone could realistically realize they were pregnant at 8-10 and need some time to decide what they wanted to do, see their doctor, and etc. Beyond that 18 weeks is a bit random but that is the current law in Sweden for example. Where I live it is 21 weeks but that seems a bit late.
I just don't understand this mentality. I am not trying to flame you or anything, but I just can't understand it. I understand that people can be against abortion for religious and personal reasons, but I don't understand making it illegal. It's estimated that 1.2 million women every year sought out abortions before it was legalized. Think about that. 1.2 million women risking hemorrhage or being disfigured or dying. I just can't understand it, like I said.
Kel, my guess is that if a person were of the mindset that abortion = murder, then they would want all abortions treated the same as murder is treated. To play devil's advocate (which I rarely do in this debate but whatever lol), we don't really have situations where you KNOW you can murder someone and not be charged.
Are there situations where someone murders and is found not guilty for a justifiable reason? Sure - but they are still expected to go through the criminal system in order to get to that not guilty. KWIM? So, to bring it back to abortion. If it's illegal, and there are women who choose to have the procedure done, then they would be expected to go through the criminal system in order to determine if their reason is justifiable (ie: murder when it's in self defense, etc etc)
I don't think that way, but a few of my friends do and this is how they explain their thoughts to me. I personally find the whole thought process disturbing and upsetting, but that's how it's been explained to me.
Perhaps I should have said it differently. I do understand where you are coming from, I do. But even though I see where you are coming from, I am still very against it, mainly because of my religion. And it sickens me to think about the concept. In my mind abortion = murder. Maybe I would think differently when faced with one of the said situations.... but most likely not.
I think you are romanticizing here. There are women who don't think twice about having an abortion. Its not heartbreaking, its not a regret and its not about God.
The thing with this that I can't agree with is how far out you choose. IMO I think after 12wks is too far along. Plus, I think it should be covered by insurances only if it is medically necessary to have one. Otherwise its just a choice you are making. I understand that BC is also a choice and it is covered by insurance but it is just a little bit different then aborting a fetus. I do agree with having more options avail to everyone that is seeking them.
I will admit that I had one when I was very young and it was a decision that I made because I was 1.) way too young. 2.) had no way that I would be able to properly care for the child and I knew that if I did th adoption route that I wold constantly be wondering what they were doing and I would have hated myself for giving them up. If I had kept the child I would have a 12yo right now, but it was the best choice for me at the time. I made a promise to myself that I would be more responsible from then on( even though my BF and I used protection) and I would never have another one again. But I think they should be available for those you want/need them
rats, I have to go to work. I really want to see how this one turns out. oy.
Romanticizing it? Really? I don't think that there is a way to do that with abortion. I know women who didn't think twice about having an abortion that now, years later, are absolutely torn up about it and have serious psychological issues.
I'm very torn about how I feel on abortion, and I don't know how I would write the law. Even though nobody ever agrees with me, I think its a state issue. I think Roe v Wade should be overturned because legal abortions should not have been decided by the judicial branch of gov't.
Not by very much, is it different.
Generally speaking, those who are against abortion believe the way they do because they believe abortion is taking the life of a 'baby'. Right? But MANY birth control options are abortificient, meaning it essentially aborts a fertilized egg. And if you think that life starts at conception, you should in theory also be asking that these birth control methods should be illegal, no?
But the day when any governing body tells me what I can and cannot choose to do with my own reproductive system is the day that I move - far far away. Chipping away at the rights of women to have autonomy over their reproductive choices, is a slippery slope of epic proportions, IMO.
I don't want to start any fires here, because this is my personal thoughts. But this is why I will not get an IUD.
Again, not trying to flame, but do you just use condoms or natural family planning? Because if you go with that school of thought, then wouldn't all birth control have the same problems as the IUD does in your eyes?
MrsP I agree with you 100%
Currently, we are only using condoms... but I did take the pill before. Here is what bothers me about certain IUDs. I think it is the plastic ones, correct me if I am wrong, that prevent pregnancy and if by chance an egg were to be fertilized, keep it from implanting in the uterine wall. To me, that fertilized egg is a baby.
The pill does not allow eggs to be released, and if one DID release and get fertilized, it is not going to abort it.
Does that make more sense? I am not worried about the aspect of eggs not having a chance to fertilize... it is the fact that certain IUDs will actually "abort" fertilized eggs.
We may be on different sides of the debate, but I can appreciate your consistency at least.
Although, I would maybe check up a bit more on the Pill - I am nearly 100% certain that most forms of the pill make your uterus "inhospitable to implantation". Which means the egg CAN be fertilized and 'discarded'. Just FYI.
I'm Catholic...need I say more..lol
Although, let me add, even though I am Catholic, I don't feel like my beliefs should be imposed on those who don't carry those same beliefs. I know that abortion will never be made illegal so I just pray for all the unborn/aborted lives.
I had never heard that before, but I will have to read up on that! Currently we have no plans to go back on the pill any time soon because condoms are working and they are much cheaper.
this exactly.
9/24/2011 Plymouth Firefighters 5k: 47:13
11/12/2011 Diva Dash 5k: 45:45
5/5/2012 STEM school 5k TBD Coming up in 2012:
6/10/2012 Walk to Remember SIDS foundation 5k
(in memory of a sweet baby boy)
11/10/2012 Diva Dash 5k
Like you said, I figure my 2 cents wasn't needed. We all know where I stand and that this is a serious hot button issue for me.
www.imnotsorry.net
Pro-choice and pro-life women (who have almost as many abortions as the pro-life women...google "The only moral abortion is my abortion"), often have abortions that they do not regret.
Eurochick, I agree with almost everything you said, though I think the insurance thing should only go to about 14 weeks. Ditto x10 on programs to help women who choose to have the baby and parent, not this "baby only matters from conception to cradle" crap.
I love when people make wild financial demands of the government without any plan as to how to fund what they're demanding.
Oh wait...I guess we can just invent some more money. Its not like we haven't been doing that lately anyway.
DD #1 passed away in January 2011 at 14 days old due to congenital heart disease
DD#2 lost in January 2012 at 23 weeks due to anhydramnios caused by a placental abruption