- Pregnancy
- Baby & Toddler
- Parents
- Getting Pregnant
- Baby Names
- Product Reviews
-
Registry
- Community
-
More
Want a personalized experience?
Download the free app
Babies on the Brain
Mrs_Liberto
member
Best op-ed I've read re: Octomom yet.
Mrs_Liberto
member
Harsh, but (IMHO) right on the money.
https://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/sunday/la-oe-rutten11-2009feb11,1,6312240.column
Warning
No formatter is installed for the format bbhtml
This discussion has been closed.
Re: Best op-ed I've read re: Octomom yet.
I do agree with parts of it! But I think he's an aS$hole for writing this part!
When the Nadya Sulemans of the world say, as she has in interviews, that they undergo these extreme, invasive, unpleasant, uncertain and expensive medical procedures because they "want children," that isn't really the case. If what people want is children -- and the incomparable experience of parenthood -- there are tens of thousands of children in our country and perhaps millions more abroad waiting for adoption. Thousands of others in our country are waiting for foster care.
This is abhorrent and offensive:
When the Nadya Sulemans of the world say, as she has in interviews, that they undergo these extreme, invasive, unpleasant, uncertain and expensive medical procedures because they "want children," that isn't really the case. If what people want is children -- and the incomparable experience of parenthood -- there are tens of thousands of children in our country and perhaps millions more abroad waiting for adoption. Thousands of others in our country are waiting for foster care.
The impulse that has made fertility medicine such a large and lucrative specialty in American medicine is about something other than children; it's about the narcissistic assumption that one is "entitled" to "the experience" of childbearing and, more to the point, the notion that, somehow, if your particular strands of DNA don't live on into another generation, the species will be poorer for it.
That sense of entitlement and its enabling delusion are about a lot of things -- but none of them really involve children.
Oh I completely agree. He is definitely not informed. But she is definitely excessive and selfish.
Yea, those infertile women wanting biological children are such assholes.
By the way, how many kids have you adopted?
I'm the first to agree that this woman is a total moron and should be condemned (I also think she's a big old liar and wrote my recent blog post elaborating on all of the holes in her story), but to lump in the 1 in 6 women in this country to experience IF as narcissistic is 100% offensive and wrong.
So as soon as all fertile people give up the selfish desire to bear children and go scooping up the world's orphans, I too will stop my quest. Until then, fertile people judging my actions to have what they get FOR FREE canfuckoff.
I am a runner, knitter, scientist, DE-IVF veteran, and stage III colon cancer survivor.
Definitely. I just don't like him bashing infertility treatments and those that go through them responsibly.
I totally agree with you!
((hugs))
Well said.
To re-iterate, I don't believe anyone thinks what that woman did was right, but that article is highly offensive to those of us infertiles who just want a healthy baby (not 8 of them all at once)!
ding ding ding.
Exactly why she did it, she knew that she would not be approved to parent a child. She doesn't have the financial or emotional resources to raise mentally and physically healthy children. Let alone 14...
Thank you, I ranted about this in my blog entry.
Way to make it MORE painful for those already suffering through IF.
Photography site | Photoblog | ...into the womb| My beachbody
But let's not argue that infertiles should "just adopt" - they are two totally separate issues.
Honestly, I'm too angered to go on. If you care about what I have to say, it's in my blog.
Photography site | Photoblog | ...into the womb| My beachbody
Which is why the Doc in the Box who did the procedure should lose his license, IMO.
Also, (and I mean no offense to those with IF, I realize sometimes is it unexplained), but has anyone read anything indicating she been diagnosed with any form of IF?
Best oped you've ever read??? You need to read more.
That is pure sensationalized salacious garbage. The ranting of someone who spouts grossly inaccurate facts and perpetuates the "oh, you should just adopt" mentality of people who have no idea of the difficulties, complexities and expense of adoption. It's a beautiful thing, adoption, but for god's sake it's offensive and dismissive to call it easy.
Yup, Nadya Suleman or whoever is bats---tcrazy!! Her doctor should have his license revoked. But she does not represent the world of fertility treatments.
I agree wholeheartedly and I sincerely apologize if you thought that was what I meant.
Apart from this lunatic...I have a friend who was nearing 40, single, and desperately wanted to have a baby. What was she supposed to do, bang some guy in a bar? She did IUI or IVF (I'm not sure which) and now has a beautiful little boy. She has no dx IF that I know of, but does it really matter?
And what about lesbian couples? Are they medically IF?
Thank you epphd! Mrs_Liberto, of course you think it's right on the money, you're fertile. Only people who have struggled with infertility can know how painful that struggle is and how much harder it makes it when people who are fertile assume that they know all about the mindset of those of us going through IF treatments. I seriously hope that you never have to know what that's like. I think that this writer is very ignorant. The only thing that I agree with is that the octuplet mom is a freaking moron.
I am "speaking" strictly about octomom, and no one else. I firmly believe that those who want to have children and can provide a caring and nurturing home should.Whether it is a biological child or an adopted child. I don't think wanting a biological child is selfish, as this guys seems to.
I hate what he said about infertility. I think it is awful. I absolutely disagree with him on those points.
Well it depends on if you believe a word coming out of her mouth. According to her she had 3 m/cs and badly scarred tubes, leaving IVF as her only option to conceive. According to her her doctor said she had a 'prematurely aging reproductive system.' None of it adds up and I actually don't even believe she did IVF for these kids or all of her others. Maybe she did IVF once or twice, but the timing of it all simply doesn't add up. Moreover, her "doctor" has made no comment, further supporting my theory that she is a big fat liar who got her hands on fertility meds and took them herself.
If I am wrong, her doctor should go to jail and she should be thrown in the loony bin. If I had my way she and "the doctor" should be put into a rocket and ejected out of out atmosphere. And we would all have our collective memories erased of this entire debacle.
The problem is that many people find this type of op-ed to be "great" or true - hence confirming that this idiot has propogated the general publics' misperceptions about infertility and its treatment.
I am a runner, knitter, scientist, DE-IVF veteran, and stage III colon cancer survivor.
I think you're jumping on me unnecessarily and you have no idea what I'm going through. The part where he thinks Octomom's a moron? Absolutely agree. I also said that I think he's talking out his ass about IF.
...stupid bump, I wasn't done.
That doesn't mean that I think they should give up their quest to have biological children, by any means. I give major props to those who go through the processes time and time again. I wish only the best to them.
Point taken. I guess I assumed in those cases, one would do IUI. Although I will admit that I'm not well informed on the criteria for someone to do IVF instead of IUI.
She is DSM-IV crazy. Enough said.
Biological drive is not the same thing as a sense of entitlement.
Sorry I didn't see the follow-up about IF, I just saw the initial post...
I think she was focusing more on the woman herself. She is in a class by herself, and it's unfortunate that it has brought this unfairly negative light onto an otherwise wonderful procedure.
Jon & Kate's kids are the result of IUI, which more often results in high order multiples than IVF does.
The doctor in this particular case was incredibly unethical, but this is not the norm in reproductive medicine.
No, it means you're making an assumption. I don't know if I'm IF-- I haven't been to an RE yet.
And I didn't say that this was the best ARTICLE I'd ever read. I think his OPINIONS regarding OCTOMOM are spot on. The rest, as I said before, is assholish to excess.
Again she said best op-ed about octomom which is different from sying best article read.
I take offense that you assume that most fertile people are judgemental about IF and IF treatment. "A lot" is really assumng too much. Many people don't care what others do as long as it does not infringe upon them. Most people I know consider IF treatment a personal decision left up to the individual(s) who are involved. The loudest on all sides of an issue are the ones that are heard. Do they ever talk about the struggles of normal people? People wanting a child and not a dozen? No, simply because it does not get ratings or cause controversy.
Nadya Suleman has given a big black eye to IVF whether I like it or not. People who behave like her ruin it or make it substainly more difficult for others.
Lastly, this guy is also wrong about adoption. Many times, it too is a long and difficult process. Saying to anyone, you can always "just" adopt is offensive. Adoption is not like going to the grocery store. You just can't pick up the baby you want when you want.
I am touchy about IF and adoption not because I have experienced IF but because my mother had IF issues. My parents struggled just to have one child over 17 years. I would not wish the pain and struggles that surround IF on anyone. I also commend and support those who do what is best for them regarding having children, fertile or infertile.
The media saddens me that they are giving her any attention. It only brings negative light to a deeply personal matter.
I agree with everything except "The impulse that has made fertility medicine such a large and lucrative specialty in American medicine is about something other than children; it's about the narcissistic assumption that one is "entitled" to "the experience" of childbearing and, more to the point, the notion that, somehow, if your particular strands of DNA don't live on into another generation, the species will be poorer for it.
That sense of entitlement and its enabling delusion are about a lot of things -- but none of them really involve children."
There is a lot more emotion involved with this concept that implied by this
Article. I can only assume a man wrote this because it does not come into contact the feelings of being broken and unwomanly because your body will not do what it is built to do. The feelings of worthlessness because you can?t give your husband a child of his own. The feelings of emptiness because your ute will not bear fruit. Motherhood is all some people want, but before they can get to that stage where a child is a child is a child, you have to go through all the emotions and trials and tribulations to try and bring forth and GIVE your husband a baby. We dream from day one what a mixture of the two of us will be ?will he/she have my dark hair, and his blue eyes, my straight teeth and his height etc. We picture this child in our dreams, and yes some of it is based on our own genes, but that?s not it.
Those of us who are given to these emotions and thoughts are also not given to excesses like this woman. We are happy for ONE child of our own and would happily stop at one if that is what is given us. So this generalization of a narcissistic society based on the act of seeking fertility treatments alone kind of pisses me off.
:humps Fred's leg:
So well said. I really can't stand the fact that most of the people that I talk to about this issue (coworkers and friends) know nothing to speak of about infertility and therefore form factually incorrect opinions regarding the octomom and her "infertility."
Most people suffering from infertility do have the right and are entitled to have their own biological children. Of course they are. I believe that everyone should have a chance to be happy and get what they want out of their lives, as long as they are not hurting others. The octomom is hurting others, she's destroying her children!
Octomom is crazy. My opinion apparently counts more because I am experiencing IF. Suck it fertiles.