Calling all teachers (and parents)

goofyteacher

So I'm pretty new BOTB and I don't post too often but this one has me stumped.  I have a second grade girl in my class who has chosen to write mean notes to another second grade girl.  Both girls are super well-behaved and the girl writing the notes is probably one of my best students behavior wise.  I witnessed her at the end of the day putting the note in the other student's desk. I didn't want to embarrass in front of  her classmates so I chose not to call her on it today, but maybe also because I have no idea how to confront her on this.  She is super shy, and sensitve. I think the behavior is more attention seeking or that she enjoys the drama rather than to be mean towards the other girl...any suggestions?

Lyssapee

Are you kidding? No matter what the situation BULLYING should never be TOLERATED.  You can't just sit by and allow that to happen!  Call her out, involve the counselor, principal and who ever else you need to! 

 Sitting back and allowing this to happen is completely irresponcible of you as a teacher, adult, parent/future parent.  

 I really hope this is MUD. 

Lyssapee

As a teacher you are supposed to PROTECT your students.  EHH I could keep going on, and on. 

If I were your supervisor I would totally rip you a new one!

You better fix this, and fix it quick!

 

danlexi04

I agree. I'd put an end to it ASAP. 

lo45fd98wq32

Whoa now, did you go to school to be a teacher?! This was something routinely discussed in my education program. Granted, I teach high schoolers so our risk with bullyinig is highly terrifying. But this age is where the trouble starts! Kids who lose it when they're older because they have been treated terribly their entire lives! It is your duty to step in and handle it regardless of how you think she will react. Do it NOW and do not wait.

pokeyswife

Lyssapee:

Are you kidding? No matter what the situation BULLYING should never be TOLERATED.  You can't just sit by and allow that to happen!  Call her out, involve the counselor, principal and who ever else you need to! 

 Sitting back and allowing this to happen is completely irresponsible of you as a teacher, adult, parent/future parent.  

 I really hope this is MUD. 

I totally agree. 

I seriously would have called her out on it in front of the class.  I can't believe you would stand by and let one child humilate another child in your class and not call them on it.  It sounds to me you like you are more afraid of this girl being mad at you then you are about how hurtful this "favorite student" is being to another student. Seriously step up and be a real teacher who cares about all the students. 

goofyteacher

Sorry should have explained.  I have been intercepting the notes before they get to the other child so the other child has no idea this is happening.  I didn't want to call her out on it because I don't believe in humilating children regardless of the situation and I will not.  I was asking your opinions on how to confront her about the reasoning behind it, the child is extremely nice to all of the children in class including this girl.  Sorry definately should have explained that no bullying is taking place.

lo45fd98wq32

I still don't understand. Regardless of how sweet and nice you think this child is, if these notes are being WRITTEN then something is wrong! How long have you been "intercepting them?" These problems are best dealt with swiftly and promptly before they become a routine. You need to take the notes, keep them, and set up a conference with this child's parents. Just because they "seem" sweet and nice and are one of your favorites doesn't mean they are perfect. Believe me, some of my favorite students IN class are people I would never want to see outside of school.

Lyssapee

goofyteacher:

Sorry should have explained.  I have been intercepting the notes before they get to the other child so the other child has no idea this is happening.  I didn't want to call her out on it because I don't believe in humilating children regardless of the situation and I will not.  I was asking your opinions on how to confront her about the reasoning behind it, the child is extremely nice to all of the children in class including this girl.  Sorry definately should have explained that no bullying is taking place.

 

NO! I wouldn't say she is nice.  She has the intention of hurting someone, that does not make her nice.  If you want talk to her privatly...Take notes, slam them on your desk, and ask her to explain herself.  Tell her under no CIRCUMSTANCES is this behavior accepted.  you should talk to the school counserlor as well... They should be able to give you some advise.  They may actually want to talk to to child as well.

Also make copies of the notes just in case! 

pokeyswife

Bullying is taking place.  What happens if you don't notice one of the notes before the girl gets it?  You seriously are one "goofy" teacher.  It isn't hard.  Pull her outside or hold her back from her specials and have a heart to heart.  I know what you are doing and it is not ok.  Then I would try to get her to explain why and give her a punishment.  I also would call the parents and explain the situation to them as well as a counselor.

goofyteacher

It started on Tuesday, but I didn't know who it was until 3:30 today (end of day)  This child leaves on the bus and so they are the last ones to be dismissed and that is when I spotted her doing it this afternoon.  I fully plan on addressing it tomorrow I just wasn't sure th severity of the consequences (lecture) etc.

lo45fd98wq32

Please tell me you're a teach for america assignment and didn't go through schooling and student teaching for this profession. As a teacher, I'm sort of insulted by this.

Accounting Chick

It is apparent that some people have never been infront of a classroom of students.  Nor have they had parents march into the school and demand to know why you humiliated their child infront of the class. 

That being said, the fact that this behaviour is out of character for this child is a red flag.  You need to speak with her.  This may be an attention seeking behaviour, and there is often a cause behind these kinds of behaviour.  Do not go in confrontational.  It's grade 2!  However, you do need to speak with the child and determine if further steps (such as bringing parents in, etc) need to be made. 

goofyteacher

Yes I went through schooling for this, and I am perfectly capable of handling it I was seeking the advice of other teachers to get opinions.  As a second grade teacher it is very unusual to have to deal with mean notes that doesn't usually happen until later on in their schooling.  I was also trying to think more about the intentions versus the action because after having the child in my classroom I don't believe she is mean spirited and like I said is well-like and pleasant to her classmates.

goofyteacher

Thanks Accounting Chick that was the kind of response I looking for!  I do think I will be contacting the parents via phone just to make them aware of this situation.

lo45fd98wq32

If that is truly the case then you should be even MORE concerned by this behavior. There may be something happening at home which is causing her to act out. There are a million causes behind this, but in-class behavior should not impact how you handle it otherwise. You need to speak to her immediately and likely call home as well.

jenick

**Auntisha**  your last comment was uncalled for. As someone who went through both the traditional college programming and a non-traditional certification program, your comment is what is INSULTING!  I didn't need to go to college to know the difference between right and wrong. 

Accounting Chick

goofyteacher:

Thanks Accounting Chick that was the kind of response I looking for!  I do think I will be contacting the parents via phone just to make them aware of this situation.

You're welcome.  I would recommend speaking to the student FIRST, before calling home.  The behaviour could be indicative of something going on at home, which, if you call home first, you may do more harm than good.  This is coming from someone who discovered severe abuse at home.  Scariest situation I ever ran into in the classroom.  A great student (normally quiet, reserved, never misbehaved) started acting out, bullying (grade 7), etc.  Not fun. 

lo45fd98wq32

kdodge423:

goofyteacher:

Thanks Accounting Chick that was the kind of response I looking for!  I do think I will be contacting the parents via phone just to make them aware of this situation.

And I bet you are going to ignore everyone else because they didn't tell you exactly what you wanted to hear.

 

Seriously, I tried to give some good insight. I don't understand what was so unacceptable about what we said.

pokeyswife

Accounting Chick:

It is apparent that some people have never been infront of a classroom of students.  Nor have they had parents march into the school and demand to know why you humiliated their child infront of the class. 

I find this really insulting.  Especially coming from an "accounting chick".  I haven't had a parent complain yet.  If you want to send your kids my way though I will happy to let you be the first to do so.  If my child was doing something hurtful to another child I wouldn't hesitate to "humiliate" her in front of the class and I wouldn't have a problem with her teacher doing it either because hurting other people's feelings is not acceptable in any way shape or form in my household.

Lyssapee

goofyteacher:

Yes I went through schooling for this, and I am perfectly capable of handling it I was seeking the advice of other teachers to get opinions.  As a second grade teacher it is very unusual to have to deal with mean notes that doesn't usually happen until later on in their schooling.  I was also trying to think more about the intentions versus the action because after having the child in my classroom I don't believe she is mean spirited and like I said is well-like and pleasant to her classmates.

 FYI, Kids in second grade can be very mean, DH teaches second grade, and the stories I have heard are outragous!  Also right now I'm in PreK, and kid at that age are mean too!  IF they could write notes, they probably would. 

lo45fd98wq32

jenick:

**Auntisha**  your last comment was uncalled for. As someone who went through both the traditional college programming and a non-traditional certification program, your comment is what is INSULTING!  I didn't need to go to college to know the difference between right and wrong. 

 

I apoligize, Jen, I was not trying to be insulting. I started teaching with no experience (on an emergency credential). All I was attempting to point out (which she never fully answered) was that these issues are addressed at length in preparation and there should never be a question about discussing a matter like this with the student.

Ras Empress

I'm big on calling out my first graders on their negative behavior.  I try not to humiliate them but I make it very clear that whatever they are doing is unacceptable. 

jenick

Thanks Auntisha.  You explained yourself well. 

 

~jenny

lo45fd98wq32

jenick:

Thanks Auntisha.  You explained yourself well. 

 

~jenny

 

No prob--sorry to come off rude. Looking at it now, it was one of those things that sounded nicer in my head. *foot, mouth*

Accounting Chick

pokeyswife:

Accounting Chick:

It is apparent that some people have never been infront of a classroom of students.  Nor have they had parents march into the school and demand to know why you humiliated their child infront of the class. 

I find this really insulting.  Especially coming from an "accounting chick".  I haven't had a parent complain yet.  If you want to send your kids my way though I will happy to let you be the first to do so.  If my child was doing something hurtful to another child I wouldn't hesitate to "humiliate" her in front of the class and I wouldn't have a problem with her teacher doing it either because hurting other people's feelings is not acceptable in any way shape or form in my household.

You've never heard of people changing careers?  I have a Bachelor of Science and a Bachelor of Education.  I spent plenty of time in the classroom.  It wasn't for me.  I loved working with the kids, but there were too many things I hated. 

Lyssapee is very correct...children, even in grade 2 can be very mean.  The fact that this behaviour is very out of character of the child is what concerns me.  This is a huge red flag.  The people who immediately said "call her out" are only seeing the behaviour.  Yes, the behaviour has to be dealt with.  However, there are better ways to go about this. 

goofyteacher

Yes I was prepared for this in during my education to answer you question and as I said before can handle it just fine.  I guess more than anything I was shocked that it was this particular child due to her typical in-school behavior.  That was what alarmed me and question why it was going on and how to handle it.  This is was made me decide to post and ask for advice.  And I read all of the advice I just don't agree with it all, so it wasn't that I didn't look for one answer and go with that.  I looked for an answer that fits in with my teaching philosophy.

MsBee

I don't know if I would call the girl out in front of the classroom, as it could be embarrassing to the victim as well.

*Bee*

I don't understand why confronting her about it and telling her it is unacceptable behavior is considered "embarrassing" her.  She acted inappropriately and needs to be made aware that you will not tolerate that kind of behavior.  There is nothing wrong with asking her why she did it, telling her why it is inappropriate, and that you don't want it to happen anymore.

aggie_teacher

I don't know where all of you goddesses of education gained your profound wisdom, but I fail to see how bullying her in front of the class (by calling her out, etc) is really sound classroom management.

Of course she needs to be confronted, and of course the parent needs to be contacted. The rest of the class doesn't need to be involved.

Oh, and my only credentials here are that I have M. Ed. and some common sense.

hollybabe

I'm a teacher, too.  I think you're doing the right thing by not calling her out immediately.  Since you're intercepting the notes, you have time to reflect and choose your reaction, which is a luxury. 

Talk to the girl one on one in a non-threatening environment.  Getting her to trust you and know that you are still going to love her will cause her to open up and tell the truth.  Let the guidance counselor and maybe even your supervising principal know and see what they suggest as a next move.  Document it, too.

It sounds like a lot of people on here would like to nail your ass to the wall for taking the time to think before acting.  I'm glad they're not teaching my kid.

Heather&Dave

I think you should use your best judgement and training in your decision about how to handle the situation.

That being said, trust me when I say that you should address this situation with the author of these notes.  This is coming from the girl that was on the receiving end of these kinds of notes back in her day.  My notes were fake love letters, written by another girl with my name signed on them, to a boy in our class.  Our teacher totally botched the way she handled the situation.  The letters were turned in to the principal.  She called me and the boy in to her office.  Do you know how much more humiliating it was to have to answer the principal when she asked me, "Heather, do you like _____?"  I could hardly look him in the eye, while having to say, "________, you're nice, but I didn't write that note."

 

tri047

I didn't read all the other posts, but seriously?!

Why wouldn't you call her out on it?  If she is going to bully another student, then she NEEDS to be called out!  You need to then explain to her that its absolutely not OK.

Chrysallys

I used to teach 2nd and currently teach 5th.

If I was in your situation, and I have been, I first will bring up the topic in class in general terms. We'll discuss the topic and I'll give stuents a chance to talk about feelings associated with that topic. My students know they are not allowed to bring up names in these situations but they can say, "One time I..." This helps greatly as they feel comfortable talking about problems they may be facing without accusing anyone. The accused has to sit and hear people's reactions to their behavior. I used this technique in 2nd and 5th grade.

Then I would speak to the note writer in question. Hopefuly she would have heard and processed other people's feelings. She might even have talked about times she felt bullied or had her feelings hurt and I could use that info in our conversation.

If it continued after the class meeting and your talk, then we go into detentions and parent conferences.

At least that's how I would deal with it.

lo45fd98wq32

Chrysallys:

I used to teach 2nd and currently teach 5th.

If I was in your situation, and I have been, I first will bring up the topic in class in general terms. We'll discuss the topic and I'll give stuents a chance to talk about feelings associated with that topic. My students know they are not allowed to bring up names in these situations but they can say, "One time I..." This helps greatly as they feel comfortable talking about problems they may be facing without accusing anyone. The accused has to sit and hear people's reactions to their behavior. I used this technique in 2nd and 5th grade.

Then I would speak to the note writer in question. Hopefuly she would have heard and processed other people's feelings. She might even have talked about times she felt bullied or had her feelings hurt and I could use that info in our conversation.

If it continued after the class meeting and your talk, then we go into detentions and parent conferences.

At least that's how I would deal with it.

 

This is an EXCELLENT suggestion, Chrys. I really think she does need to be talked to, and there should be follow up with parents if it continues. However, with young ones, having a class discussion would be a really great way to handle it.

Chrysallys

Oh and calling someone out and humiliating them in front of the whole class is a terrible practice.

pokeyswife

I think I miss spoke when I said call her out in front of the class.  If you read in my second post I did say I would pull her aside.  I guess what I was trying to say is that I would confront her and I wouldn't be afraid it would humiliate her.  I think what I previously posted was not said in the most gentle/well spoken terms.  I don't know how to say it without coming off as a biznatch.  So I am just going to leave it at that because I don't want to dig a bigger hole.  I seriously see a lot of teachers that are more concerned with being the students friend than helping the student grow into a respectful young person and I am sorry if my anger towards them was placed on someone else.

charlies-angel

Chrysallys:

I used to teach 2nd and currently teach 5th.

If I was in your situation, and I have been, I first will bring up the topic in class in general terms. We'll discuss the topic and I'll give stuents a chance to talk about feelings associated with that topic. My students know they are not allowed to bring up names in these situations but they can say, "One time I..." This helps greatly as they feel comfortable talking about problems they may be facing without accusing anyone. The accused has to sit and hear people's reactions to their behavior. I used this technique in 2nd and 5th grade.

Then I would speak to the note writer in question. Hopefuly she would have heard and processed other people's feelings. She might even have talked about times she felt bullied or had her feelings hurt and I could use that info in our conversation.

If it continued after the class meeting and your talk, then we go into detentions and parent conferences.

At least that's how I would deal with it.

 

Thank you! I am so glad (after coming in late) to read a response that is actually appropriate and makes sense. Some of the prior responses were a bit harsh. So glad to see that there are great teachers like you out there who know how to respond to situations that arise in the classroom - without making the situation worse!!

Lyssapee

Please note, I said Call her out, NOT call her out in front of the class.