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Toddlers: 12 - 24 Months
meg_2006
member
Time Outs
meg_2006
member
At this age...do put them in TO until they are calm, or to a designated time (1-2 minutes)?
We are starting them with DS. He is starting to hit my niece and nephew a lot. He knows he's not supposed to do it, because he looks right at us before he does. So we started doing time outs tonight. He doesn't sit still, so we sat him down facing away from us, and kind of held him down. He fights us, so I just did it for 1 1/2 minutes...I didn't see him calming down anytime soon with me keeping him down. Then I sat him up, got eye contact, told him "No hitting," and gave him a hug and kiss. Does that sound reasonable for a child this age?
I'd like to think it worked...twice right after the first time he got right up, looked straight at us, and hit her again. After the third TO he stopped. He did it again an hour later, and it only took two TOs.
This discussion has been closed.
Re: Time Outs
I'm personally not a fan of time-outs. Sure - a space where they can calm down is great, but that's a little different than time out as a punishment.
My parenting philosophy leads me to conclude time-outs don't make a lot of sense in general. Certainly not as a "punishment" or a "consequence for whatever action we disapprove of". But we all have different parenting philosophies, so really my advice is to think carefully about why and how you want to use time-outs, and how you think they will sit with YOUR particular child. Then make the decision for your self!
So...what do you use to let your child know his actions are wrong?
I'm trying to figure this one out as my LO is just starting to do bad things. I've been trying a TO when he does really bad things...like hitting the dog with his toys. I put him in his crib for about a minute. I'm not sure it phases him or if he understands what he has done wrong. Maybe I just don't do timeouts enough lol
I wouldn't use the crib as a place of punishment. You might be creating a bad association with sleep time. Just my two cents.
ok so we have not done that at this age. I do feel it's too early for our DS.
However, I wanted to tell you, meg, that what you did is exactly what my pedi told us she started with her DD at this same age - at 18 months she would hold her daughters hands and look her in the eye and say "no hitting" (or whatever) and then did 1 minute (b/c 1 full year of life) holding her DD in her lap facing away from her.
I just think this is too young for us, but that's just my take. If we did it, we would do it like you and my pedi have described it.
Then what DO you do? I would love to hear specifically what you do instead (and that's not meant sarcastically in any way, I really am curious).
I agree in part. When he is older we can create consequences that "fit the crime..." natural consequences... but those only work alongside his ability to reason and in some cases his physical abilities. (For example, if he is unkind to a someone, creating something kind to do for them in turn, or writing a letter of apology). Right now if I can create an effective consequence without going in TO, I do. If he is throwing a toy, it gets put up on the fireplace until he shows me he can play with his toys properly. But at this age, in many situations that can be difficult. For now, I just have to get him to associate doing something wrong with losing a privilege for a time (which for him is having the freedom of moving!)
Here's a blog post from Aha!Parenting that I like for covering why I don't like time out: https://www.ahaparenting.com/parenting-tools/positive-discipline/timeouts (this is another, albeit poorly formatted, one: https://www.awareparenting.com/timeout.htm)
Here's a blog post from Positive Parenting that I like that talks about some alternatives: https://www.positive-parents.org/2012/01/right-way-to-parent.html
In a nutshell, time-outs are not generally speaking natural or logical consequences. What really, is a time out? It is being sent away, to be somewhere alone, because you did something that made someone else angry. It doesn't teach what to do, it doesn't teach why not to do something, and it doesn't teach how to deal with the intense emotions that are usually a part of the whole situation.
If your only response to bad behavior is a time-out, there's an odd construct that's being set up for the child. Pull the dog's tail? Go to the time-out corner for 2 minutes and sit by yourself. Throw the baseball at the window? Go to the time-out corner and sit by yourself. Pull mommy's dress and whine at her about being hungry right after lunch? Go to the time-out corner and sit by yourself. Draw on the wall with marker? Go to the time-out corner and sit by yourself. Hit someone? Go to the time-out corner and sit by yourself. Get angry and flail around? Go to the time-out corner and sit by yourself. Rip pages out of a book to see what it's like? Go to the time-out corner and sit by yourself. For anything that makes someone upset, you go to a time-out corner? That's not realistic (doesn't match real-world, adult-like consequences) and doesn't make a lot of sense.
Kids get into trouble at this age (almost universally) not because they want to be little hellions bent on terrorizing parents, but because they love exploring their world, pushing up onto boundaries and seeing what happens, and finding out new and interesting things. They haven't gotten all old and curmudgeon-y like we tend to by the time we become parents.
(Well, maybe I'm just speaking for myself...) So they have a reason for doing these things. And they do not yet understand why they should make the choice not to do them. And, even more importantly, they often do not understand what other choices they can make.
So... blah blah blah. Enough of all that rambling background about WHY I don't like time out. (For what it's worth - we tried them. They didn't particularly work for my daughter and I hadn't tried for very long when I was talking with a friend who had a behaviorist working with her after a suspicion of autism (which he doesn't have) and she shared with me how their sessions were going and the approaches they were taking. Time-out was not one of them.) What do I do?
A lot of what's talked about in the articles above.
1) I try to avoid the behaviors in the first place by saying "no" as infrequently as possible. Instead, I offer either a way she can do the behavior she wants, or try to find a substitute behavior that meets the same needs.
1.5) Very closely related - I give in to some extent when I can. She really wants to play and chase and doesn't want to get in the car to go to preschool, but I need her dressed? "Ok, you need to get dressed!" "Uh-uh! No!" "Yeah. But I will chase you to get the clothes on!" "Yeah?!" "Yeah. Two times! One for the shirt. Then we chase again for the pants." "Yeah!" "Ok, go! I'm coming to get you!" .... And so on. This turns the "we're 10 minutes late" rush from the battle that would make us another 10 minutes late and in tears and hyterics into a fun game that makes us only 2 more minutes late but in the car and happy.
2) Tell her I understand and echo her emotions. Ok, honestly, most of this is not really about teaching behavior as much as it is about building skills to handle emotions. And that is hard, long work. So, you look at the hitting from that perspective too.
3) Fend these things off ahead of time. Is she getting tired? She's going to start acting out in that case, so we're going to end the playdate if I see things starting to go downhill at all. Has she had any control over the situation? Give her choices - almost any choices will do - so she can take back some of the control Is she feeling heard and respected? She may not have adult cognitive or physical capabilities, but she has real feelings and thoughts to be respected and validated.
4) I use natural consequences when possible, and reasonable logical consequences when those aren't and something has to change. Hit me? I'm getting up and walking away for a minute to tend to my wounds (even if just emotional). Hit someone repeatedly while out? We leave. Try again another day. Run away from me in a parking lot? She doesn't get to walk any more. (And this one sucks in the airport when you've got three pieces of luggage in your arms and then have to one-handedly pick up the 3 year old. But you do it anyway, because discipline requires consistency.) Purposely spill your cup of orange juice on the floor to see what happens? She has to get a towel (and I will redirect her, physically, until she does), clean it up, put the dirty towel away, and then doesn't get any more juice, since she spilled all that she had.
5) This is my biggest one, and one I'm still coming to a better acceptance of. Not every transgression needs a punishment or "consequence". We were at the park today, and my daughter kept climbing up the slide. I allow it if the park is otherwise empty, but not if there are other kids in the playground, like there were today. She was absolutely testing, as we were there with friends and she wanted to see how much I was paying attention and could get away with. (And didn't count on her friend ratting her out every time.
) I merely put my arm out to block her climb each and every time, reminding her of the rule. I didn't let her complete a climb, but I didn't put her on a time-out. No raised voices, all very calm, all very repetitious. She just needed to have the consistency and to see that I was paying some attention to her. She didn't "get away" with the behavior, but nor did she have any big punishment or consequence that made her upset. Discipline is teaching, and it doesn't require the kid to be unhappy about it to work.*
* I realized one day, after my daughter did something, that I wanted to punish her for whatever major (but now completely forgettable) transgression she committed. And as I attempted to "discipline" her, and she mostly ignored my attempts and seemed otherwise perfectly happy (probably running into her room saying "I go to time-out!"), I felt like I was failing at discipline because she was still happy and that she wouldn't learn anything until she got upset or at least stopped being happy. And I realized that was pretty stupid. No one needs to be unhappy to learn. It's certainly a part of the process sometimes, but it's not necessary!
Is that a clear answer? It's something I still work on. It's something I'll probably work on for my whole life. And it's something I struggle with more sometimes, when I'm feeling particularly uncreative. But then I try to go back to just respecting her as her own fully formed (if immature) individual, and go from there. Would I treat an adult the way I treat her? (Yes, there are some differences, but this is a good place to start, I think.) I also remember coming from a slightly more "mainstream" place, though I've always been very "attachment parenting" in my style. And it was HARD to make that jump. It seemed very foreign. (Didn't everyone do time-out?!) But it's been great. It's really helping me treat "discipline" not as a "let's nip this bad behavior in the bud" but as a "let's teach her how to make good choices and encourage her to want to make those good choices".
Please look up the book 1,2,3 magic. It really has been magic with my toddler. We started and within days, he started responding to the counting/time outs. It was recommended by our pediatrican as a standard at the 15/18 month visits.
Now, when he is getting into something he shouldn't he rarely gets past "that's one" before immediately abandoning whatever he was doing. Check out the reviews on amazon- they really are amazing.
My Ovulation Chart
For my 20 month old we just do a 1 minute time out. The first few time outs she kept getting up and I would have to sit her back down and start the minute over. After that, she learned she just has to sit there on the designated spot. I have also found it was more effective if she can't see the tv or her toys. (I make her sit in time out on the mat by our front door...it's not fun or exciting there and is quite effective for her.)
7lbs 13oz 20 inches long
My son is very well behaved the majority of the time, but he does like to test me and he has intense tantrums. For safety reasons, I started using the crib for 1-minute time outs, and we have found it to be effective. Contrary to popular belief, he does not hate his crib. In fact, he often doesn't went to get out in the morning and after naps. He enjoys playing in it and has continued to sleep very well. The whole idea is to give him a safe place to cool off -- we all need that. At a year old, there are not many safe places IMO. He definitely understands when we put him in there for disciplinary reasons. Toddlers are a lot smarter and more perceptive than people think. Give them a chance, and I'm sure you'll see how quickly they "get it."
That being said, I absolutely do not do time outs for any non-tantrum behaviors. I do believe he is too young for that and that redirection works best in instances where he is getting into something he is not supposed to be into or testing me in other ways. He's just learning what is okay and what is not, so I feel that I need to let make mistakes, correct him as many times as necessary (I do this verbally) and give him time to not only remember it, but understand it. Discipline is hard work and I have a feeling it's an ongoing learning process. Figure out what works for your LO and stick with it.