Discussion topic

izzourclue

I'm watching When Harry Met Sally while DD is napping.  Just watched this scene:

Harry Burns:You realize of course that we could never be friends.Sally Albright: Why not?Harry Burns: What I'm saying is - and this is not a come-on in any way, shape or form - is that men and women can't be friends because the sex part always gets in the way.Sally Albright: That's not true. I have a number of men friends and there is no sex involved.Harry Burns: No you don't.Sally Albright: Yes I do.Harry Burns: No you don't.Sally Albright: Yes I do.Harry Burns: You only think you do.Sally Albright: You say I'm having sex with these men without my knowledge?Harry Burns: No, what I'm saying is they all WANT to have sex with you.Sally Albright: They do not.Harry Burns: Do too.Sally Albright: They do not.Harry Burns: Do too.Sally Albright: How do you know?Harry Burns: Because no man can be friends with a woman that he finds attractive. He always wants to have sex with her.Sally Albright: So, you're saying that a man can be friends with a woman he finds unattractive?Harry Burns: No. You pretty much want to nail 'em too. What say ye parenting?  Can men and women ever really be friends?  Like real friends, not work acquaintances that joke around together. 

 

izzourclue

I come down on Harry's side.  I think men and women can be friendly, but it's really hard to be true friends.  Especially when they're involved with other people. 

izzourclue

krptcmschfmkr128:

Well... most of my friends are guys, so I'm gonna say yeah, they can.

Do you hang out?  Go to lunch or movies together without your H or their SO's?   

Disneygeek77

Maybe ?  I also think it depends on if you are in a happy and healthy relationship as well.  When you are satisfied with your relationship, you truly can look at the opposite sex and being just friends. 

Now, if you are single ?  Yeah he might have a point. 

EastCoastBride

Yes, I do.  Now, I will say that a couple of my male friends- there once was an attraction.  Like 20 years ago.  but nothing ever was acted on and we got past that part of it and went on to become "just" friends. 

izzourclue

Do we think Harry is speaking truth that guys are always thinking about having sex with their female friends even if they aren't particularly attracted to them?  Are men really this simple?  I'm worried they are

izzourclue

fredalina:

krptcmschfmkr128:

Well... most of my friends are guys, so I'm gonna say yeah, they can.

Yup. Course most of my early friends ended up being gay lol.

I think this situation is outside the scope of this particular discussion. 

EastCoastBride

Disneygeek77:

Maybe ?  I also think it depends on if you are in a happy and healthy relationship as well.  When you are satisfied with your relationship, you truly can look at the opposite sex and being just friends. 

Now, if you are single ?  Yeah he might have a point. 

I think this can be an aspect of it too.  Also- I STRONGLY feel that opposite sex friends have to be a "friend to the relationship" when one or both are in a romantic relationship.  Doesn't mean they have to be friends w/ the SO, but I would expect them to ask about the SO, take an interest in their friends life outside of their friendship, inviting the SO along, and just in general respecting that there are certain lines that shouldn't be crossed.

To a point, it boils down to respect.  

izzourclue

Amendment to the rule:

Harry Burns: Would you like to have dinner?... Just friends.Sally Albright: I thought you didn't believe men and women could be friends.Harry Burns: When did I say that?Sally Albright: On the ride to New York.

Harry Burns: No, no, no, I never said that... Yes, that's right, they can't be friends. Unless both of them are involved with other people, then they can... This is an amendment to the earlier rule. If the two people are in relationships, the pressure of possible involvement is lifted... That doesn't work either, because what happens then is, the person you're involved with can't understand why you need to be friends with the person you're just friends with. Like it means something is missing from the relationship and why do you have to go outside to get it? And when you say "No, no, no it's not true, nothing is missing from the relationship," the person you're involved with then accuses you of being secretly attracted to the person you're just friends with, which you probably are. I mean, come on, who the hell are we kidding, let's face it. Which brings us back to the earlier rule before the amendment, which is men and women can't be friends. 

How does this factor in? 

Nechie122

izzourclue:

krptcmschfmkr128:

Well... most of my friends are guys, so I'm gonna say yeah, they can.

Do you hang out?  Go to lunch or movies together without your H or their SO's?   

Jumping in, but one of my best friends is a guy I've known since high school. We do hang out one on one, go out to bars and dinners alone, etc. DH is completely okay with this. If nothing has happened in 15 years, why would it happen now? This isn't the movies where sexual attraction can be dormant for decades and then suddenly materialize.

LuckyDad

izzourclue:

What say ye parenting?  Can men and women ever really be friends?  Like real friends, not work acquaintances that joke around together. 

 

I think it's hard for SINGLE men and women to just be friends. Sooner or later someone's gonna get attracted to someone.

I think it's different when you are partnered to other people. 

izzourclue

ItsAllGravy7:

izzourclue:

Do we think Harry is speaking truth that guys are always thinking about having sex with their female friends even if they aren't particularly attracted to them?  Are men really this simple?  I'm worried they are

I have a hard time believing guys just want to bang you even if you aren't their type and they aren't physically attracted. I have plenty of male friends who I *am* attracted to and just as many that I'm not. If you're not attracted to each other why would you sit around thinking about sexing them? Why not think about sex w/ someone you ARE attracted to?

It just seems odd. 

I think what Harry is saying is, men are always thinking about sex and if you're bangable; ie a woman, he's thinking about having sex with you.  Therefore, he can't really be friends with you because sex always foremost in his mind and "getting in the way."  I think he's saying that men think about having sex with whoever happens to be in front of them at the time.  I really hope some of the guys weigh in on this.  I don't think I could get a honest answer from DH on this.   

LuckyDad

kiraliz2:

My BFF is a guy. I do think at some point he wanted to get with me. Well, I know he did. But that was fleeting and our friendship survived. He is now good friends with DH as well.

 

Let's face it, if the opportunity arose, your BFF would totally still do you. I mean, if you were both on the market. 

izzourclue

Nechie122:

izzourclue:

krptcmschfmkr128:

Well... most of my friends are guys, so I'm gonna say yeah, they can.

Do you hang out?  Go to lunch or movies together without your H or their SO's?   

Jumping in, but one of my best friends is a guy I've known since high school. We do hang out one on one, go out to bars and dinners alone, etc. DH is completely okay with this. If nothing has happened in 15 years, why would it happen now? This isn't the movies where sexual attraction can be dormant for decades and then suddenly materialize.

I think this is completely possible.  People grow and change.  Situations change and people may become more attractive to each other.  There's always the "I wonder what could have happened" thoughts that can creep in.  I mean if you get along so well as friends, wouldn't it be perfect if you could have sex and be such great friends?  Perfect right?  

izzourclue

LuckyDad:

kiraliz2:

My BFF is a guy. I do think at some point he wanted to get with me. Well, I know he did. But that was fleeting and our friendship survived. He is now good friends with DH as well.

 

Let's face it, if the opportunity arose, your BFF would totally still do you. I mean, if you were both on the market. 

Word.  I doubt he's totally moved past it.  I'm sure you make it into the masturbation rotation once in a while.  Forbidden fruit and all. 

LuckyDad

CTGirl30:

Back in my college days, I had an equal number of girl and guy friends. There was no sexual attraction with most of the guys (yes, I hooked up with a few of them in the end...but the ones who were truly FRIENDS? Nope. Never.).

There was no sexual attraction on your end. 

izzourclue

CTGirl30:

Back in my college days, I had an equal number of girl and guy friends. There was no sexual attraction with most of the guys (yes, I hooked up with a few of them in the end...but the ones who were truly FRIENDS? Nope. Never.).

I had one particular friend (male) who was my BEST friend for years. We would go to parties and tell people we were brother & sister. We were roomates for awhile (we rented an apt along with another girl). He dated one of my best friends.

So it is indeed possible. Also? DH has some very pretty female friends (whom I've met and we are all FB friends). I also would like to think he's not in any way preoccupied with getting into their pants. He's the most loyal guy I know so I'm not worried about it. I trust him to the end of the earth.

I trust my DH in that he would never act on anything.  And I doubt he is preoccupied with thinking about sex with women he may know.  Does the thought cross his mind?  Probably.  I don't like it, but probably.  Thinking men are like what Harry says, would make me worry about my DH spending a lot of time with another female because those fleeting thoughts could turn into a preoccupation depending on the state of our relationship at the time.  Slippery dippery slope yo. 

izzourclue

kiraliz2:

I go out for beers after work with a male coworker occasionally and I hang out with my BFF alone quite often. I don't think it's disrespectful to DH unless it bothered him. Which it doesn't.

If he said it bothered him, would you stop?  Or would you think he was just being jealous?  Are you sure he's being honest with you that it doesn't bother him or is he just trying to not be "that guy?" 

mben1119

One of my best friends in the world is a guy, and DH stole him from me. They're golfing buddies now, and we all hang out when possible. When we first started dating, though, DH didn't like it when I'd go to his house to hang, until he met and got to know and like him. I have several male friends, all of which are also friends with DH.

izzourclue

ItsAllGravy7:

LuckyDad:

CTGirl30:

Back in my college days, I had an equal number of girl and guy friends. There was no sexual attraction with most of the guys (yes, I hooked up with a few of them in the end...but the ones who were truly FRIENDS? Nope. Never.).

There was no sexual attraction on your end. 

But what if you know for a fact that there isn't sexual attraction on either end. Like what if you're really just not each others type?

How do you KNOW?!?!?!  Also, back to the last part about an attraction not being necessary.  LD?  Thoughts on wanting to nail your female friends you're not attracted to? 

gnomemom

DH and I both have friends of the opposite sex. DH is still very good friends with his ex, who is now one of my best friends and was a bridesmaid in our wedding. We are also godparents to her daughter.

They still hang out once in a blue moon (get lunch, take the kids to the zoo, etc.). I'm not at all concerned that something would happen between them. They were basically friends who dated, but were a total train wreck as a couple and they knew it, so the relationship didn't last for long.

 

izzourclue

HilarityEnsued:

I will add this caveat.  All of my guy friends are from college.  I've never hooked up with any of them and we've remained friends for over 10 years.  Many of them are married, we've attended each other's wedding, and I really like their wives/SOs.  Whenever they are in Atlanta or I'm in NYC, we will have dinner together (everyone, DH, their DWs, etc.)  It's a 100% given.

That said, now that I'm married and whatnot, I can't really see myself making a new guy friend and ever being close the way I am with my guy friends from college.  I would feel similarly weird if DH were all of a sudden buddying up to some chick.  It doesn't feel warm and fuzzy to me.

Yeah, I worked in engineering pre-baby and there aren't a lot of other females around to be friends with.  I tried to make friends with one of the guys at work thinking, "it's totally fine for me to hang out with a guy as a friend."  Didn't go well.  There wasn't anything more than friends between us, and I thought DH would never be jealous and wouldn't really care.  Turns out he did and it was actually kind of nice to know he wasn't as indifferent about me as I had previously thought.  He didn't act crazy or anything but he definitely didn't like it and made that clear to me.   

izzourclue

gnomemom:

DH and I both have friends of the opposite sex. DH is still very good friends with his ex, who is now one of my best friends and was a bridesmaid in our wedding. We are also godparents to her daughter.

They still hang out once in a blue moon (get lunch, take the kids to the zoo, etc.). I'm not at all concerned that something would happen between them. They were basically friends who dated, but were a total train wreck as a couple and they knew it, so the relationship didn't last for long.

 

This is a whole other layer.  Friends with exes.  I think it's actually better in a way than friends with just friends.  The sex part is no longer attractive simply because it's a mystery.  However, nostalgia can always creep in.  Also, I think it'd be weird for me if DH was friends with anyone he's seen naked.  I can't say why.  It's not completely logical. 

izzourclue

ItsAllGravy7:

izzourclue:

ItsAllGravy7:

LuckyDad:

CTGirl30:

Back in my college days, I had an equal number of girl and guy friends. There was no sexual attraction with most of the guys (yes, I hooked up with a few of them in the end...but the ones who were truly FRIENDS? Nope. Never.).

There was no sexual attraction on your end. 

But what if you know for a fact that there isn't sexual attraction on either end. Like what if you're really just not each others type?

How do you KNOW?!?!?!  Also, back to the last part about an attraction not being necessary.  LD?  Thoughts on wanting to nail your female friends you're not attracted to? 

I have a friend who dates almost exclusively short, tiny, thin, small breasted, blonde, hippie chicks. We've been friends since middle school and I'm confident we aren't each others "thing".

 

**FTR** If DH had a legitimate concern with ANYONE was talking to or spending time with it would end. His confidence in our relationship is more important to me than my friendships. He works with mostly women and has plenty of female friends. It's just never been an issue that comes up for us. Now I'm wondering if he wants to bone all of his friends.

Sorry dude. 

izzourclue

ItsAllGravy7:

krptcmschfmkr128:

This whole discussion stinks of the implication that men and women are nothing more than their genitalia and can't get beyond that.

**sits down next to krpasdflaskjdf;lkjs** we're on this bench together.

I didn't say it, Harry Burns said it.  

GrayGhost13

ItsAllGravy7:

krptcmschfmkr128:

This whole discussion stinks of the implication that men and women are nothing more than their genitalia and can't get beyond that.

**sits down next to krpasdflaskjdf;lkjs** we're on this bench together.

Yup, make some room on that bench for me ladies.

izzourclue

fredalina:

ItsAllGravy7:

krptcmschfmkr128:

This whole discussion stinks of the implication that men and women are nothing more than their genitalia and can't get beyond that.

**sits down next to krpasdflaskjdf;lkjs** we're on this bench together.

Yup, or worse, that men are hapless creatures who can't control their impulses. I just don't believe that for one, and for two, that's what some women in countries that are highly oppressive toward women are told. I remember reading Infidel and Hirsi said she was SHOCKED when she donned pants and rode a bicycle in the Netherlands that men did not wreck cars due to being able to see the shape of her legs. She was from Somalia.

I don't think the quoted implies lack of control on the man's part.  It's saying that the friendship will always be clouded by the guy wanting to nail his female friend even if he leads her to think his feelings are purely platonic.   

JPinkman

krptcmschfmkr128:

speer06:

krptcmschfmkr128:

My "Bench"-

My a$$ was the one that broke the bench, wasn't it? lol 

Nah, it was our guy friends coming to bone us.

I just keep thinking about the poor little flower girl walking in the back - she must have been so scared!

LaurelBee

ItsAllGravy7:

krptcmschfmkr128:

My "Bench"-

We have a pretty sexxy bench going. Now it's all wet T-shirt...better watch it or all it's friends are gonna want to pork. 

Whose hand is that?? 

LaurelBee

LaurelBee:

ItsAllGravy7:

krptcmschfmkr128:

My "Bench"-

We have a pretty sexxy bench going. Now it's all wet T-shirt...better watch it or all it's friends are gonna want to pork. 

Whose hand is that?? 

no not funny?? Boo. I laughed. 

kcisthebombdotcom

ItsAllGravy7:

izzourclue:

ItsAllGravy7:

LuckyDad:

CTGirl30:

Back in my college days, I had an equal number of girl and guy friends. There was no sexual attraction with most of the guys (yes, I hooked up with a few of them in the end...but the ones who were truly FRIENDS? Nope. Never.).

There was no sexual attraction on your end. 

But what if you know for a fact that there isn't sexual attraction on either end. Like what if you're really just not each others type?

How do you KNOW?!?!?!  Also, back to the last part about an attraction not being necessary.  LD?  Thoughts on wanting to nail your female friends you're not attracted to? 

I have a friend who dates almost exclusively short, tiny, thin, small breasted, blonde, hippie chicks. We've been friends since middle school and I'm confident we aren't each others "thing".

 

**FTR** If DH had a legitimate concern with ANYONE was talking to or spending time with it would end. His confidence in our relationship is more important to me than my friendships. He works with mostly women and has plenty of female friends. It's just never been an issue that comes up for us. Now I'm wondering if he wants to bone all of his friends.

ive also been friends with guys who I know I am the polar opposite of their type. Our personalities just click. Dh has made friends at work with women whom I know are not his type. He gravitates towards people whose personality he meshes with as well as people who are in a similar place in life (ie are married with kids). I frequently get together for play dates with one of Dhs former coworkers.

in regards to your last paragraph, I disagree. If dh got all paranoid about me hanging out with a guy I wouldn't just happily oblige. I'd be deeply hurt he had that little trust in me. I also dated a guy who was a cheater and was totally paranoid about me not having male friendships as he was projecting so I'd start to wonder.  

Coltsdad

As a man whose high school best friend was a girl and closest friend for a 4 year stretch after college was a girl... yes, you can be a real friend with someone of the opposite sex without wanting to or, having to, have sex with them.  I was invited to both of their weddings, and they were both invited to mine.

izzourclue

Coltsdad:

As a man whose high school best friend was a girl and closest friend for a 4 year stretch after college was a girl... yes, you can be a real friend with someone of the opposite sex without wanting to or, having to, have sex with them.  I was invited to both of their weddings, and they were both invited to mine.

Never thought about it?  Not once?   

LaurelBee

I liked it Gravy :P

Coltsdad

izzourclue:

Coltsdad:

As a man whose high school best friend was a girl and closest friend for a 4 year stretch after college was a girl... yes, you can be a real friend with someone of the opposite sex without wanting to or, having to, have sex with them.  I was invited to both of their weddings, and they were both invited to mine.

Never thought about it?  Not once?   

Not really.  My HS best friend started off with a conversation about music in the back of a school bus on the way to a high school playoff game, and it started off as a cool friendship and stayed that way.  She was someone I clicked with as a friend, but never viewed her as a romantic possibility.  The post college friend, again, not really.  We started talking on mIRC in college, found out we lived really, really close to one another and met after we both left campus.  We had talked enough online where I met her with expectations of a friendship only.  Neither woman was unattractive, but I didn't enter either situation looking for anything more than a friend either.

Kentuckyboy76

I will jump in as a guy. I have a few female friends I never wanted to sleep with.

Just weren't my type. I think like most everything looking for a canned answer just isn't really going to fit.

Some guys will sleep with anyone that moves even if they are married with 5 kids and walk around bragging about being faithful.

Other guys are truly happy about being in love and only see the person they are with. But really isn't that anyone regardless of the equipment they have ?