Sleeping: Losing my cool

Julestar11

My daughter is 13 mo/old and she's great: she's incredibly smart and super sweet. She eats all sorts of foods ( when not teething), her weight/height are great, has met developmental milestones ahead of the curve, etc etc, etc. She's relaxed and easy going. Now here's the catch: she hasn't slept through the night for more than 6 months...she actually  only did so for a month. This is how it goes: she wakes up like 3 times per night, doesn't want or doesn't know how to sooth herself back to sleep... has no trouble falling asleep after her bath and in her room, I do nurse her a bit (5') and she's fast asleep. After 3 hrs or so, she wakes up. Hubs goes in and rocks her a bit, and that usually does the trick, but when it doesn't, I have to go in and nurse her a bit, and that's the cycle. She never took to the bottle, nor the pacifier, even though we tried everything to make her switch ( we're still are trying). We refuse to do the cry-out Ferber method since she his highly sensitive and wouldn't be wise to go that way for us. 

Her room is comfy, she has a white noise machine, it's dark and pretty quite. We have read tons of books and links on the subject to no avail. 

Keeping all this in mind, is there a tip, recipe, method or SOMETHING, that anyone can recommend to us? I am beyond exhausted, I'm a stay at home mum and work from here. I never believed that it was possible to be this fed up and physically destroyed.Please help. Thanks, oh and did I mention that she only naps once a day, if I'm lucky, for an hour tops?...omg this is just awful.

J 

Karen1998

Be as consistent with sleep training as you are with soothing her 3x a night.  Your soothing her three times a night, every night, has kept her from learning to self-soothe.  You need to find a sleep training method you're willing to do and do it full throttle.  Don't give up.  

Have you read Ferber or are you just anti-Ferber based on what you've heard?  If you read the book, it's not as extreme as you think.  Even if that doesn't jive with you, something like Sleep Lady Shuffle may be more your style.  Find a style and stick to it.  Floating between styles and repeatedly changing it up will only make it worse.  

henrytviii

You mention switching to a bottle, just realize that it might not help at all.  I stopped pumping at work and my supply tanked very quickly, we've been switching to bottles for about a month and completely off the breast for 2 weeks.  It had no effect on nighttime wake-ups.  I wish I had been able to keep nursing because getting up to make a bottle is much worse than nursing and I am more tired than I was before. 

Sorry that isn't a very positive comment but honestly the only silver lining I thought I'd find with the end of nursing was that DS and his formula filled belly would suddenly sleep through the night.  Not even close! His pattern since birth has been lots of night nursing and very little daytime milk consumption.  We never found an effective way to break the cycle that I was comfortable with and bottles had no effect.

I think you need to decide what is best for you and your family. My family is okay with the night waking so we haven't done any sleep training or research.  We just don't tell anyone about our situation to avoid comments. We also try to relax about it so it doesn't cause added stress. If its leading to suffering for you and you think you could be a better mom with more sleep than maybe doing some research like the pp suggested might be a good idea. I am trying to stay neutral on the idea of sleep training or not sleep training.  I don't think anyone else can make a decision about what is right for you and your LO.

 

Rosebud2587

DD is almost 19 months and has STTN twice in her life. She still gets up an average for 4-6x/night. Sometimes she just fusses for a bit and falls back asleep, sometimes she wants to nurse, sometimes she wants to be held, sometimes she wants to play, etc. Sleep training hasn't been going very well for us at all. I usually try 1 style for a week before I give up from exhaustion/frustration and then wait a few weeks before trying something else. Anyways, I don't really have any advice but I can sympathize. 

I'm about to try the Dr. Gordon method next to hopefully get DD night weaned and out of my bed. My hope is that after she is night weaned she won't be waking up as much wanting to nurse. 

https://drjaygordon.com/attachment/sleeppattern.html

TiffanyBerry

Approximately 40% of kids do not sleep through the night at 1yr.  And even toddlers and kindergarteners often get up at least once in the night a few times a week.  So, partially, I encourage you to reset your expectations.  (At 3yrs old, my daughter has NEVER slept through the night.  I've gotten six hours stretches on a handful of occasions, but it is incredibly rare.)  If you can reset your expectations, and KNOW that this is going to happen, you may find that you don't get angry about it, and hence not quite so tired.  (But, believe me, I feel your pain on the fatigue.)

What we do?  DD goes to bed on her own now (that took a very long time), and when she wakes up in the middle of the night, I go sleep with her in her room.  (Usually after changing a wet diaper, as she wakes up when she pees.)  We cut out the MOTN nursing a few months ago (just shy of her 3rd birthday), and that did not change the night waking at all.  We dropped her last nap entirely shortly after that (about five weeks) and that also did not change the night waking at all.

Especially if you are not going the CIO route, I STRONGLY encourage you to be patient, and compromise with her where you can, and to reset your expectations.  The times I was the most tired, the most frustrated, and the most fed up are the times when I let myself get angry that she wasn't doing what I wanted her to do (sleep longer stretches and go back to sleep on her own) rather than what she (individually) was able to do.

Also, nap with her.  Seriously, nap with her or at the same time.  That one hour was my life-saver for nearly three years.  And go to bed early - not long after she does.  If I don't go to bed until 10:30, I'm a mess the next day, and frustration builds.  If I get into bed by 9:30, we're both happier.

Julestar11

Thanks for the replies; it actually makes me feel a lot better about the whole situation. I have read Ferber, and I liked the idea so DH and I tried it for 4 days, problem was that DD wouldn't relent in her crying, nor go to sleep, and actually got so upset that she vomited every time. That's why we decided to stop that, definitely not for her. We did "reset" the effects of that training and she has no prob sleeping on her own crib.

I love the comment on adjusting my expectation, thanks; it makes a lot of sense and it does make me feel a lot less frustrated. I still want to find something that helps her, I definitely think that I could be a better mum if I got a bit more sleep. I'm also concerned about my career, since I can see how my productivity has dropped because of the lack of proper rest. I'm seriously considering going back to the office because telecommuting is nearly impossible with a child that almost doesn't nap either...

I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one though    I will check out other approaches, patiently, this time around. I'm always welcome to suggestions.

Thanks,

J 

henrytviii

Julestar11:

I'm seriously considering going back to the office because telecommuting is nearly impossible with a child that almost doesn't nap either...

Are you trying to work from home without childcare? IMO that's almost impossible once kids are mobile.  I do it for a few hours a month and I always feel like I am not doing either job properly, my mom job or my work job.  I workout outside of the home but work essentially 2nd shift so I have morning at home.  I look forward to work everyday and I also look forward to DS's first night waking so I can cuddle with him again.  Leaving the house for work each day keeps me sane.

karioutcalt

I had the same problem with my 10 month old.  He would wake every 2 to 3 hours and want to be rocked or nursed.  I eventually just couldn't take it anymore.  My husband found this article https://www.parenting.com/article/sleep-training?page=0,2 and we tried it out.  We started on a Friday night when my DH didn't have to work the next day so if we were both tired it wouldn't really matter.  It went like this for 3 nights: I would nurse DS and then put him in his crib, pat or rub his back saying, night, night, close your eyes, mommy is here, etc.  It took 30 minutes but he went to sleep.  He woke about 3 hours later and DH went in and did the same thing, never picking him up but giving him a hug or snuggle while DS was still in his crib.  After 30 minutes DS wasn't asleep so I went in and took over.  DS finally went back to sleep.  DS woke 4 hours later and DH went in and was able to get him back to sleep.  After that for another 3 nights DS would nurse to sleep, wake 5 hours later and DH got him back to sleep.    Now as long as I put DS to bed awake and rub or pat him to sleep, he will sleep through the night   I realized one important thing was to put DS to bed mostly awake.  If I put him to bed fast asleep he always wakes up at least once.  Another thing I found helpful was that if I started to get frustrated I would ask my DH to take over and vice versa.  I too was one who couldn't Ferber my child.  It just broke my heart to listen to him cry.  There was mild crying but mostly whimpering with this method.  Now, I am a fully rested stay at home mommy!  Hopes this helps.

lchitt

I did Ferber at 11 months bc of same issues! It was hard but not as bad as I thought it be. Took three good nights. I recommend writing it down. How long she cried, woke, etc. it will help you see the improvent on paper and reinforce you are doing the right thing. ;

lchitt

I did Ferber at 11 months bc of same issues! It was hard but not as bad as I thought it be. Took three good nights. I recommend writing it down. How long she cried, woke, etc. it will help you see the improvent on paper and reinforce you are doing the right thing. ;

MomtoH

No advice.  My daughter has slept through the night once in her life.  I figure she will eventually sleep...maybe.  Good luck

shannm

Karen1998:

Be as consistent with sleep training as you are with soothing her 3x a night. nbsp;Your soothing her three times a night, every night, has kept her from learning to selfsoothe. nbsp;You need to find a sleep training method you're willing to do and do it full throttle. nbsp;Don't give up. nbsp;Have you read Ferber or are you just antiFerber based on what you've heard? nbsp;If you read the book, it's not as extreme as you think. nbsp;Even if that doesn't jive with you, something like Sleep Lady Shuffle may be more your style. nbsp;Find a style and stick to it. nbsp;Floating between styles and repeatedly changing it up will only make it worse. nbsp;

Exactly. You trained her to wake up for your attention three times a night.

My daughter started down this path. I read Ferber's book and followed his advice. Worked perfectly for us.

outnumbered

My second child was a horrible sleeper.  He would also vomit when we tried Ferber. We used the Sleep Lady Shuffle.  It takes about two weeks, but it works.  He did not cry and he never threw up.  More importantly his sleep improved dramatically. Your DDs sleep can be definitely changed with help from you, but her sleep might never be 'perfect' some people are more settled sleepers.  My second still wakes up.  He talks and walks in his sleep.  He does not even know he is up and never remembers the next morning.  I can see now that some of his poor sleep as a baby was probably attributed to this.

ASullivan1231

HilarityEnsued:

Nicb13:

I might be the minority here but I wouldn't not be OK with my son not STTN. Statistics might show that lots of kids don't STTN at this age but I think it can be done. For me, I like knowing that when I put DS to bed at 7:30 each night, he stays in his room, happy and sleeping until the morning. He's well rested and so am I.

I am definitely in this boat too. Another PP said they still get up 4-6 times a night?!?!?! That is effing loco. Everyone in my house would be at wits end.

Ultimately you can do what you want, but if you refuse to sleep train, the sleeping situation will not work itself out anytime soon. Like, anytime soon at all. Also, and I do not mean this offensively, but it sounds like you ar e projecting a lot of stuff onto her and making excuses. "She is sensitive and sleep training wouldn't be the route to go for us" sounds like a crock to me.

If you want her to sleep, you need to teach her that crying in the middle of the night is not met with a cuddle/play session with mom or dad. Period. It is not mean, it is not abuse, you are teaching them to soothe themselves and that is super important. I will be hard for the first few nights no matter what.  But it gets better. You need to be the parent and do what is best for the long run, not what is easiest right now.  

Couldn't agree more! Not all kids naturally learn to sleep. Some kids need to be taught, just like they need to be taught everything else. To say to just have patience seems crazy to me. I know an 8 yr old girl who sleeps with her mother every night and needs to be cuddled. Not all kids just figure it out. We are the parents, not their buddies.

TiffanyBerry

ASullivan1231:

 Couldn't agree more! Not all kids naturally learn to sleep. Some kids need to be taught, just like they need to be taught everything else. To say to just have patience seems crazy to me. I know an 8 yr old girl who sleeps with her mother every night and needs to be cuddled. Not all kids just figure it out. We are the parents, not their buddies.

I think there is - especially for someone who doesn't want to do CIO (in most of its forms) - a lot of room in "teaching".  I would say we did some "teaching" for DD - though, honestly, you can't teach them to go to sleep on their own.  You have to simply give them lots of opportunities to try.  Just like you can't teach them to walk - you have to encourage them to learn it for themselves.

But there are lots of ways to encourage that and to give them space to learn it - and some of them go really, really slowly, but are still working them in that direction. 

JWSchwarz

Could she be cold or hot or a noise keeping her up? DS kept waking up and we finally realized it was the dog, and also the temp dipped at around 3am and he was getting cold. I totally get the sensitive thing.

Karen1998

TiffanyBerry:

ASullivan1231:

 Couldn't agree more! Not all kids naturally learn to sleep. Some kids need to be taught, just like they need to be taught everything else. To say to just have patience seems crazy to me. I know an 8 yr old girl who sleeps with her mother every night and needs to be cuddled. Not all kids just figure it out. We are the parents, not their buddies.

I think there is - especially for someone who doesn't want to do CIO (in most of its forms) - a lot of room in "teaching".  I would say we did some "teaching" for DD - though, honestly, you can't teach them to go to sleep on their own.  You have to simply give them lots of opportunities to try.  Just like you can't teach them to walk - you have to encourage them to learn it for themselves.

But there are lots of ways to encourage that and to give them space to learn it - and some of them go really, really slowly, but are still working them in that direction. 

That's true, but you must, must, must be consistent.  The OP is not doing that.  Some kids do have a harder time STTN.  For us, it took many, many tries to get him to do it.  He finally started around 12m, only because I stuck to my guns.  It sucked.  It was hard.  It took weeks.  BUT he FINALLY did it.  I knew he could do it, but that he wanted to not have to comfort himself.  He had to learn how.  He rarely wakes up during the night anymore unless he's sick or teething.  I cannot begin to tell you how much better we function as a family because of that.  He's also a lot happier as he gets better quality sleep.  

OP, what are you doing when she pukes?  If you're going in there, cleaning her up and then comforting her for a while, you've just taught her that if she pukes she gets the boob/comfort.  It sounds harsh, but you should just clean her up, give her a quick hug and put her back into the crib, explaining why you're doing it on the way.   Otherwise, you're continuing the cycle.  Obviously, this applies when the puking is behavioral and not because she's sick.  

I also suspect that your daughter needs more than a week of training at a time.  Try going for at least two to three weeks.  A week is short enough that she knows that it'll end and she'll get her way if she holds out long enough.  GL.

danslilgrizzly

Nicb13:

I might be the minority here but I wouldn't not be OK with my son not STTN. Statistics might show that lots of kids don't STTN at this age but I think it can be done. For me, I like knowing that when I put DS to bed at 7:30 each night, he stays in his room, happy and sleeping until the morning. He's well rested and so am I.

You don't have to leave your child to cry but I'm afraid that tears might be inevitable. My only advice to you is to be 100% consistent with whatever you do, especially at this age. It can be done and you CAN be STTN...all of you! The fact that you say you are beyond exhausted and desperate makes me think you need to make a change and make it very soon. GL!

I could have written this response. OP, you have a lot more patience than I do, because I was feeling what you describe when my son was about 5 months old. He slept through the night for almost two months then regressed around 4 months. I only lasted a month before I had to do some sleep training. It took two bouts of it -- he regressed again around the holidays -- but he sttn 98% of the time now.

I'm glad that a lot of ppl whose kids don't sttn posted, because I know it helps to not feel alone, but if you are as miserable as you describe, something has to change. If you're LO is not napping either, I'm betting that some of the issues are stemming from her being overtired. Sleep begets sleep, so usually if they sleep well during the day, they do better at night. I might try working on naps first if I were you and then doing some training at night once she is napping better.

Training gets more difficult as babies get older -- and more opinionated -- so I think that prolonging it will only result in more tears for you all later. There will likely be some now, but I urge you to find a method you are most comfortable with and give it at least a week. It will be hard, but by the end you will likely all be sleeping more. 

I too am a SAHM that works from home several days a week with no help and if my son didn't nap, it would be impossible. Because he does and sleeps well at night, it's not usually a problem unless he's sick or in a wonder weeks phase. Good luck! 

Divallyn

Someone once told me that babies are not born knowing how to Sttn. You have to teach them not enable them. I would train and be consistent before they get too old. When your in the throws of training know that this will benefit them as much as it will you.

TiffanyBerry

Karen1998:

TiffanyBerry:

ASullivan1231:

 Couldn't agree more! Not all kids naturally learn to sleep. Some kids need to be taught, just like they need to be taught everything else. To say to just have patience seems crazy to me. I know an 8 yr old girl who sleeps with her mother every night and needs to be cuddled. Not all kids just figure it out. We are the parents, not their buddies.

I think there is - especially for someone who doesn't want to do CIO (in most of its forms) - a lot of room in "teaching".  I would say we did some "teaching" for DD - though, honestly, you can't teach them to go to sleep on their own.  You have to simply give them lots of opportunities to try.  Just like you can't teach them to walk - you have to encourage them to learn it for themselves.

But there are lots of ways to encourage that and to give them space to learn it - and some of them go really, really slowly, but are still working them in that direction. 

That's true, but you must, must, must be consistent.  The OP is not doing that.  Some kids do have a harder time STTN.  For us, it took many, many tries to get him to do it.  He finally started around 12m, only because I stuck to my guns.  It sucked.  It was hard.  It took weeks.  BUT he FINALLY did it.  I knew he could do it, but that he wanted to not have to comfort himself.  He had to learn how.  He rarely wakes up during the night anymore unless he's sick or teething.  I cannot begin to tell you how much better we function as a family because of that.  He's also a lot happier as he gets better quality sleep.  

OP, what are you doing when she pukes?  If you're going in there, cleaning her up and then comforting her for a while, you've just taught her that if she pukes she gets the boob/comfort.  It sounds harsh, but you should just clean her up, give her a quick hug and put her back into the crib, explaining why you're doing it on the way.   Otherwise, you're continuing the cycle.  Obviously, this applies when the puking is behavioral and not because she's sick.  

I also suspect that your daughter needs more than a week of training at a time.  Try going for at least two to three weeks.  A week is short enough that she knows that it'll end and she'll get her way if she holds out long enough.  GL.

Oh, definitely - you have to be consistent.  We didn't want to CIO, so I figured out what my rules were going to be.  Basically, I needed her to "give a little more effort", but only a tiny bit.  Super baby steps.  So, for instance, when we were starting from a place of me staying with her until she fell asleep, I moved to "I'm going to leave for two minutes, but I'll be back" once.  Then longer, then multiple times.  Over months.  But once a rule was set, it had to be 100% consistent for a very long period of time and only once that was going well did we "up the ante", or progress to the next rule.  (The more stubborn the kid, the longer the rule has to be consistent.)

And you also have to walk that line between comforting and rewarding.  If you reward behavior you don't want to see... well, you're just going to get more of it.  Every kid's set of rewards is different, but the majority of them certainly see mom coming and rocking them as a reward!

It doesn't have to be CIO, but it does have to be some sort of clear rule.