Sometimes I feel like the universe is just off kilter... **warning mini-rant and also warning- dist

SandSunBliss

***EDIT** this post was an ungrounded gut reaction to a news story after a bad day.  I didn't consider all of the factors at play in this story before I posted this emotional reaction. I made some very unfair judgements and I apologize for that. 

** Warning for mobile users, disturbing birth story and baby mentioned (not mine)

** additional warning. Mini-rant 

Has anyone else been deeply bothered or touched by this story from china about the baby saved from the pipe?

 I just heard on the news that the mother will most likely not face charges because she claims it was an accident and she was afraid.  I don't know the woman obviously, and there is a whole parallel universe of social norms and expectations in china, but tis really bothers me.  

 She delivered s perfect baby, something we dream of, and literally flushed the LO down a toilet.  How can there be no ramifications? The child is currently with the maternal grandparents, but word is the mother will be able to keep the child once all is said and done.

 It just brings out my inner bitter loss survivor... How can I woman who wants this badly not to be pregnant be blessed with a child as we all struggle with losses and many with infertility.  This group of women is so beautiful and caring and I have never seen a stronger desire to bring a child into this world than I see here every day.  These are the things that keep me a little jaded and remind me that the universe is not in balance.

 Sorry for the rant.   I hate that i get this way.  I know that we will have our rainbow babies one day but this sort of thing just touches me in such a powerful way now...

 On a positive note, what a little fighter! If he can navigate through his home life and overcome social stigma and expectations, he is going to be a very strong little human:) 

 

for those of you not familiar with the story, here is a link. It is quite astonishing:

 https://www.dnaindia.com/world/1841745/report-mother-of-china-s-sewage-pipe-baby-will-not-face-charges-

LydsieMarie7

car seat:

Well, to be fair, that's not exactly what happened.

OP - Do you know what toilets are like in China? There are some that are full toilets like what we have here, but most of the country has just holes in the floor, and these very. Some have holes like what you'd find in the bottom of your toilet, some have a pretty large hole that has little doors that flap down and then come back up, and some are just... big holes. Either of the last types and it isn't hard to imagine how a baby who was being delivered might just slip away from you and end up in those pipes.

Giving her the benefit of the doubt, that obviously wasn't the best choice and she should have gone to a hospital and delivered properly. But this is a woman who doesn't have much money and wasn't even able to afford an abortion, so it's unlikely that she was able to afford a hospital birth. She also immediately called emergency services when the baby slipped down there and they were able to rescue him in fairly good time, though I think it's good that they've taken the investigation seriously before deciding whether that baby can go home with her.

I know how you feel about the unfairness of the world sometimes. It's not unusual for me to send out a 'wtf, universe' on a fairly regular basis, because sometimes it's just insane to me how things work out, how horrible people can have babies and wonderful people can't. But in cases like this I like to remember that there are people out there dealing with things that I can't possibly understand because I've never been in their shoes. And I know that most people out there in the world can't understand what I've been through - five years ago I could never have imagined I'd be where I am right now, I would never have guessed that I'd go to the lengths that I've gone to. So when I hear about people doing things that I just don't understand I remember that I wouldn't have understood my own actions before I actually had to live the past four and a half years of my life.

I will say that for me, the mitigating factor is that she immediately called for help. If this woman and just left that baby to die in there then she could go to hell, as far as I'm concerned. But whatever led to her delivering her baby over a toilet (something that happens way more often than you'd think), she took action when things went wrong.

I feel for that kid. He was literally born in a sh?thole. What an ominous start to life.

This - and, I live in China. Most people literally cannot imagine what some people's lives are like over here and why some women here make the choices they make. It's impossible to understand where she is coming from in her life and what pressures she has face in her past to cause this to happen. Life isn't always fair, but it's really unfair to judge others without understanding them in the slightest. 

I'm not saying that what happened to that baby is good or that the world is fair and those who deserve good things always get them and those who don't deserve good things don't get them. What I am saying is that you literally cannot understand another persons life, especially one who lives in a country and culture so foreign to your own. So let's show a little grace for a situation that we don't fully know.

ETA: Should be addressed to OP, not PP. Just wanting to clarify.  

SandSunBliss

car seat:

Well, to be fair, that's not exactly what happened.

Do you know what toilets are like in China? There are some that are full toilets like what we have here, but most of the country has just holes in the floor, and these very. Some have holes like what you'd find in the bottom of your toilet, some have a pretty large hole that has little doors that flap down and then come back up, and some are just... big holes. Either of the last types and it isn't hard to imagine how a baby who was being delivered might just slip away from you and end up in those pipes.

Giving her the benefit of the doubt, that obviously wasn't the best choice and she should have gone to a hospital and delivered properly. But this is a woman who doesn't have much money and wasn't even able to afford an abortion, so it's unlikely that she was able to afford a hospital birth. She also immediately called emergency services when the baby slipped down there and they were able to rescue him in fairly good time, though I think it's good that they've taken the investigation seriously before deciding whether that baby can go home with her.

I know how you feel about the unfairness of the world sometimes. It's not unusual for me to send out a 'wtf, universe' on a fairly regular basis, because sometimes it's just insane to me how things work out, how horrible people can have babies and wonderful people can't. But in cases like this I like to remember that there are people out there dealing with things that I can't possibly understand because I've never been in their shoes. And I know that most people out there in the world can't understand what I've been through - five years ago I could never have imagined I'd be where I am right now, I would never have guessed that I'd go to the lengths that I've gone to. So when I hear about people doing things that I just don't understand I remember that I wouldn't have understood my own actions before I actually had to live the past four and a half years of my life.

I will say that for me, the mitigating factor is that she immediately called for help. If this woman and just left that baby to die in there then she could go to hell, as far as I'm concerned. But whatever led to her delivering her baby over a toilet (something that happens way more often than you'd think), she took action when things went wrong.

I feel for that kid. He was literally born in a sh?thole. What an ominous start to life.

 

all of this is very true. I was far too quick to fire that off last night. It was a rash reaction without putting myself in her shoes and considering all of the facts and cultural differences. There is no comparison. I was feeling down and te story, the way I wanted to see it at the time, hit a nerve. All I could think about was that sweet baby that nobody wanted at the time- I didn't think about all the factors at play..  Thank you car - ugh I wish I hadn't posted this gut reaction but at least by doing so it helped me to find other perspectives and it it in a different light... 

SandSunBliss

LydsieMarie7:

car seat:

Well, to be fair, that's not exactly what happened.

OP - Do you know what toilets are like in China? There are some that are full toilets like what we have here, but most of the country has just holes in the floor, and these very. Some have holes like what you'd find in the bottom of your toilet, some have a pretty large hole that has little doors that flap down and then come back up, and some are just... big holes. Either of the last types and it isn't hard to imagine how a baby who was being delivered might just slip away from you and end up in those pipes.

Giving her the benefit of the doubt, that obviously wasn't the best choice and she should have gone to a hospital and delivered properly. But this is a woman who doesn't have much money and wasn't even able to afford an abortion, so it's unlikely that she was able to afford a hospital birth. She also immediately called emergency services when the baby slipped down there and they were able to rescue him in fairly good time, though I think it's good that they've taken the investigation seriously before deciding whether that baby can go home with her.

I know how you feel about the unfairness of the world sometimes. It's not unusual for me to send out a 'wtf, universe' on a fairly regular basis, because sometimes it's just insane to me how things work out, how horrible people can have babies and wonderful people can't. But in cases like this I like to remember that there are people out there dealing with things that I can't possibly understand because I've never been in their shoes. And I know that most people out there in the world can't understand what I've been through - five years ago I could never have imagined I'd be where I am right now, I would never have guessed that I'd go to the lengths that I've gone to. So when I hear about people doing things that I just don't understand I remember that I wouldn't have understood my own actions before I actually had to live the past four and a half years of my life.

I will say that for me, the mitigating factor is that she immediately called for help. If this woman and just left that baby to die in there then she could go to hell, as far as I'm concerned. But whatever led to her delivering her baby over a toilet (something that happens way more often than you'd think), she took action when things went wrong.

I feel for that kid. He was literally born in a sh?thole. What an ominous start to life.

This - and, I live in China. Most people literally cannot imagine what some people's lives are like over here and why some women here make the choices they make. It's impossible to understand where she is coming from in her life and what pressures she has face in her past to cause this to happen. Life isn't always fair, but it's really unfair to judge others without understanding them in the slightest. 

I'm not saying that what happened to that baby is good or that the world is fair and those who deserve good things always get them and those who don't deserve good things don't get them. What I am saying is that you literally cannot understand another persons life, especially one who lives in a country and culture so foreign to your own. So let's show a little grace for a situation that we don't fully know.

ETA: Should be addressed to OP, not PP. Just wanting to clarify.  

 

lydsie, I am so sorry for this post. As I placed in a prior post, I had a gut reaction last night and you are both so right to point out my extremely  unfair judgements of the situation. I have no right to judge anyone's situation, let alone one forms place and culture that I do not understand.  i would say wish i didn't say anything at all about it, but I am happy to have both of your perspectives to help me know that I cannot understand this situation and that this was an unfair reaction to it. Maybe if anyone else jumped to conclusions, your insights will also help them not to take it the way that i did.  Please accept my sincere apologies for this!

SandSunBliss

RosiePeare:

I just want to really this thread as an example of why I love this board. OP let some raw emotions and gut reactions go, but PPs were able to graciously, honestly, and even with unique experience (of living in China) explain a different perspective. OP, your honest response above was--I thought--a great response to the "new" information you learned.

This is why we don't DD over here; even the posts you regret in the morning can have good come out of them. And who knows how many other women felt like OP and now have a better understanding of the potential extenuating circumstances?

Applause all around, ladies! 

 

thank you for this. This is so well said. I do regret the post and am embarrassed by my initial narrow view but perhaps this can be a learning experience for more than just me:) The board is pretty amazing!:)

LydsieMarie7

SandSunBliss:

LydsieMarie7:

car seat:

Well, to be fair, that's not exactly what happened.

OP - Do you know what toilets are like in China? There are some that are full toilets like what we have here, but most of the country has just holes in the floor, and these very. Some have holes like what you'd find in the bottom of your toilet, some have a pretty large hole that has little doors that flap down and then come back up, and some are just... big holes. Either of the last types and it isn't hard to imagine how a baby who was being delivered might just slip away from you and end up in those pipes.

Giving her the benefit of the doubt, that obviously wasn't the best choice and she should have gone to a hospital and delivered properly. But this is a woman who doesn't have much money and wasn't even able to afford an abortion, so it's unlikely that she was able to afford a hospital birth. She also immediately called emergency services when the baby slipped down there and they were able to rescue him in fairly good time, though I think it's good that they've taken the investigation seriously before deciding whether that baby can go home with her.

I know how you feel about the unfairness of the world sometimes. It's not unusual for me to send out a 'wtf, universe' on a fairly regular basis, because sometimes it's just insane to me how things work out, how horrible people can have babies and wonderful people can't. But in cases like this I like to remember that there are people out there dealing with things that I can't possibly understand because I've never been in their shoes. And I know that most people out there in the world can't understand what I've been through - five years ago I could never have imagined I'd be where I am right now, I would never have guessed that I'd go to the lengths that I've gone to. So when I hear about people doing things that I just don't understand I remember that I wouldn't have understood my own actions before I actually had to live the past four and a half years of my life.

I will say that for me, the mitigating factor is that she immediately called for help. If this woman and just left that baby to die in there then she could go to hell, as far as I'm concerned. But whatever led to her delivering her baby over a toilet (something that happens way more often than you'd think), she took action when things went wrong.

I feel for that kid. He was literally born in a shíthole. What an ominous start to life.

This - and, I live in China. Most people literally cannot imagine what some people's lives are like over here and why some women here make the choices they make. It's impossible to understand where she is coming from in her life and what pressures she has face in her past to cause this to happen. Life isn't always fair, but it's really unfair to judge others without understanding them in the slightest. 

I'm not saying that what happened to that baby is good or that the world is fair and those who deserve good things always get them and those who don't deserve good things don't get them. What I am saying is that you literally cannot understand another persons life, especially one who lives in a country and culture so foreign to your own. So let's show a little grace for a situation that we don't fully know.

ETA: Should be addressed to OP, not PP. Just wanting to clarify.  

 

lydsie, I am so sorry for this post. As I placed in a prior post, I had a gut reaction last night and you are both so right to point out my extremely  unfair judgements of the situation. I have no right to judge anyone's situation, let alone one forms place and culture that I do not understand.  i would say wish i didn't say anything at all about it, but I am happy to have both of your perspectives to help me know that I cannot understand this situation and that this was an unfair reaction to it. Maybe if anyone else jumped to conclusions, your insights will also help them not to take it the way that i did.  Please accept my sincere apologies for this!

Thanks for your honest next day response and apology! I second what Rosie said above. ::mobile hugs::

SandSunBliss

car seat:

***snuggles rosie***

sandsunbliss, please don't feel bad. I understand those gut reactions. Whenever I hear about something happening to babies I get upset and think, 'dammit, I would have loved that baby with my whole heart'. It's not rational, but it's real. And on first reaction to hearing something like this I don't blame you for feeling that way, especially without the perspective of what life - and toilets! - are like over there. Don't feel bad, and I hope you know that I wasn't trying to lecture, just trying to talk it out.  (((sandsunbliss)))

i didn't feel like you were lecturing. I just knew after reading how wrong I was! Thank you car!! (((Car seat))) and ((hugs all around))

  

mork

Hugs to you OP and way to go on recognizing your emotions and owning up to them and any judgements you made. We travel a tough road, and sometimes it comes out in ways we later wish it hadn't. It's ok, it's life.  Good job reflecting and owning up.

Also, high five to the ladies who provided perspective in a most respectful and supportive manner. Well done ladies.  

SandSunBliss

I want to thank all of you beautiful ladies for making this thread a positive one for me, despite how it may have begun.  I don't agree with my initial post at all, but I don't approach this blushing and cringing.  I just feel warmth and appreciation for you all:)  I am so happy I have found this place.

Poppy715

SandSunBliss:

I want to thank all of you beautiful ladies for making this thread a positive one for me, despite how it may have begun.  I don't agree with my initial post at all, but I don't approach this blushing and cringing.  I just feel warmth and appreciation for you all:)  I am so happy I have found this place.

I wanted to also commend you for your responses. Most people would DD and pretend they never said anything.  Or become defensive to try and cover up their original (possibly irrational) emotions. Well done for your grace in this situation. Thank you to the other ladies for respectfully and humbly enlightening OP and all of us on this situation. 

MsAmandaPants

car seat:

Well, to be fair, that's not exactly what happened.

Do you know what toilets are like in China? There are some that are full toilets like what we have here, but most of the country has just holes in the floor, and these vary. Some have holes like what you'd find in the bottom of your toilet, some have a pretty large hole that has little doors that flap down and then come back up, and some are just... big holes. Either of the last types and it isn't hard to imagine how a baby who was being delivered might just slip away from you and end up in those pipes.

Giving her the benefit of the doubt, that obviously wasn't the best choice and she should have gone to a hospital and delivered properly. But this is a woman who doesn't have much money and wasn't even able to afford an abortion, so it's unlikely that she was able to afford a hospital birth. She also immediately called emergency services when the baby slipped down there and they were able to rescue him in fairly good time, though I think it's good that they've taken the investigation seriously before deciding whether that baby can go home with her.

I know how you feel about the unfairness of the world sometimes. It's not unusual for me to send out a 'wtf, universe' on a fairly regular basis, because sometimes it's just insane to me how things work out, how horrible people can have babies and wonderful people can't. But in cases like this I like to remember that there are people out there dealing with things that I can't possibly understand because I've never been in their shoes. And I know that most people out there in the world can't understand what I've been through - five years ago I could never have imagined I'd be where I am right now, I would never have guessed that I'd go to the lengths that I've gone to. So when I hear about people doing things that I just don't understand I remember that I wouldn't have understood my own actions before I actually had to live the past four and a half years of my life.

I will say that for me, the mitigating factor is that she immediately called for help. If this woman had just left that baby to die in there then she could go to hell, as far as I'm concerned. But whatever led to her delivering her baby over a toilet (something that happens way more often than you'd think), she took action when things went wrong.

I feel for that kid. He was literally born in a sh?thole. What an ominous start to life.

 

Car, I just love you. All of this.  

 

ETA: And high five to the original PP for her response.