What is the norm???

pbrown7781

My fiancee has 2 kids from a previous marriage.  They live in another state. He pays child support and we get to visit as much as possible.  They have come down every summer since he's moved. There is no CO for visitation, just child support.  Ok here is my question.  Should she be sending them with clothes? Last year, they came for the summer with a small bag they packed with like under clothes and a t-shirt.  We went out and got them what they needed for their visit.  We did not think anything of it and sent it back. 

I am so new to this. I will take any suggestions.  She is not easy to talk to and is making his relationship with kids very difficult.  By difficult I mean, not giving them messaged when he calls, not giving them the letters and cards he sends, not giving them the clothes he sends, etc.  She is putting in their minds that he is not playing a role in their life which is FAR from the truth.  I would NEVER be with a man that did not take care of his children, so I support him 100%.

 We have mentioned going and doing a motion for a court order, but not being in the same state makes that difficult.  We have priced a lawyer and its about $2,000.

What are your thoughts??? It hurts me to see him hurt... 

NDSalesGirl

Get a CO in place! DH and BM never had one until last year. BM would always string Dh along until finally she would refuse DH access to SS. Then out of the blue she called and stated that SS wanted to have a relationship with his dad and we needed a CO. One thing I am going to tell you though is that we did it wrong, looking back at it now. Check out the stat laws where both of you reside. Technically if there is no CO then both parents have equal access to the child and you do not have to return them when they come to visit. no does she have to let them come and visit. --As for the clothes we origionally told BM that if she kept child support the same ($1,000/month) we would send SS back with clothes for every bisit. This is not in our order, but verbal between the two. BM then went for more child support and actually screwed herself, but she NEVER sends clothes for SS. We flew to DH's parents for CHristmas and had to fly a separate bag for SS because BM refused to pack a week worth of clothes for SS. We keep EVERYTHING we buy and our families buy for SS because BM either gives it to her BF's kids or throws it away. Plus SS would rather leave his toys at our house so they dont get broken by the BF's boys.

cole2144

You absolutely need a CO to protect your husband`s rights. Believe me it will be worth every penny.

pbrown7781

NDSalesGirl:

Get a CO in place! DH and BM never had one until last year. BM would always string Dh along until finally she would refuse DH access to SS. Then out of the blue she called and stated that SS wanted to have a relationship with his dad and we needed a CO. One thing I am going to tell you though is that we did it wrong, looking back at it now. Check out the stat laws where both of you reside. Technically if there is no CO then both parents have equal access to the child and you do not have to return them when they come to visit. no does she have to let them come and visit. --As for the clothes we origionally told BM that if she kept child support the same ($1,000/month) we would send SS back with clothes for every bisit. This is not in our order, but verbal between the two. BM then went for more child support and actually screwed herself, but she NEVER sends clothes for SS. We flew to DH's parents for CHristmas and had to fly a separate bag for SS because BM refused to pack a week worth of clothes for SS. We keep EVERYTHING we buy and our families buy for SS because BM either gives it to her BF's kids or throws it away. Plus SS would rather leave his toys at our house so they dont get broken by the BF's boys.

Thank you! Great advice.  It just pisses me off that this is SOOOO difficult. Men that want to do right gets run through the mud.  Thanks again! 

pbrown7781

MelRC117:

1. Get a CO.  How is CS figured out if there is no CO?  Also, could prevent parental alienation which sounds like what's going on here.  Could also lay out phone calls, skype sessions, etc.

2. I would assume he'd have to buy his own clothes when they are there. 

3.  Get a CO. 

They once had a CO, but when he moved to NC that became null.  The clothes was never an issue when he is still living in the same state.  Thanks, a CO is needed! 

pbrown7781

MelRC117:

1. Get a CO.  How is CS figured out if there is no CO?  Also, could prevent parental alienation which sounds like what's going on here.  Could also lay out phone calls, skype sessions, etc.

2. I would assume he'd have to buy his own clothes when they are there. 

3.  Get a CO. 

Tried the phone calls..its always on speaker.  They are not allowed to get Skype.  We bought them a cell phone, it was sent back..So much crap going on!!!

Littlejen22

I do bot think it is true in all states that no CO means either parent can keep a kid. I am pretty certain no CO in some states means that the BM is assumed to have custody. Where they married? Is he on the birth certificate?

pbrown7781

MelRC117:

pbrown7781:

MelRC117:

1. Get a CO.  How is CS figured out if there is no CO?  Also, could prevent parental alienation which sounds like what's going on here.  Could also lay out phone calls, skype sessions, etc.

2. I would assume he'd have to buy his own clothes when they are there. 

3.  Get a CO. 

They once had a CO, but when he moved to NC that became null.  The clothes was never an issue when he is still living in the same state.  Thanks, a CO is needed! 

Hmmmm...didn't know that the CO becomes null...I would assume a new CO would be done then.  Like PPs said...your SO does have rights and without a CO it would be harder to protect them.  What if she just said no to any type of summer visitation?  If she's preventing communication you never know what could happen.  I'd honestly be peeved if I ever got divorced and H moved to a different state and I'd be protective of LO but nonetheless he is still the father and should be allowed contact.

He had every other week visitation, obviously that is not possible.  A new CO was not put in place.  

A parent moving to a new state does not have to hinder the relationship.  There are means in which this transition can be smoother.  I think in some situations, mothers make it difficult when it does not have to be.  Everything is fine as long as the check is coming in.  

We need to get on the ball to protect him.  My question is this...What gives her the authority to say your kids can't visit if there is no CO for her to have full custody.  I will NEVER understand this...

Thanks for the advice!!! 

pbrown7781

Littlejen22:

I do bot think it is true in all states that no CO means either parent can keep a kid. I am pretty certain no CO in some states means that the BM is assumed to have custody. Where they married? Is he on the birth certificate?

Yes they were married, he is on their birth certificate. 

fellesferie

I'm posting this without reading any of the previous replies, so sorry if I'm redundant.

First, I think it's great that you are supporting and promoting his relationship with the kids.

You do need a court order. There's no way around it. And if she contests anything, you will likely pay much more than $2k. I would budget closer to $10k+.

Did he move away or did she? If she moved away with the kids, she presumably did it without the permission of the court.

In terms of clothing, there really isn't a rule. My XH is long distance and I send clothes. If I were you, I would plan to buy them clothes when they're with you. Shop off season sales and plan ahead!  

pbrown7781

fellesferie:

I'm posting this without reading any of the previous replies, so sorry if I'm redundant.

First, I think it's great that you are supporting and promoting his relationship with the kids.

You do need a court order. There's no way around it. And if she contests anything, you will likely pay much more than $2k. I would budget closer to $10k+.

Did he move away or did she? If she moved away with the kids, she presumably did it without the permission of the court.

In terms of clothing, there really isn't a rule. My XH is long distance and I send clothes. If I were you, I would plan to buy them clothes when they're with you. Shop off season sales and plan ahead!  

Thanks! I just told him that. I am a bargain shopper.  That is my plan. 

pbrown7781

fellesferie:

I'm posting this without reading any of the previous replies, so sorry if I'm redundant.

First, I think it's great that you are supporting and promoting his relationship with the kids.

You do need a court order. There's no way around it. And if she contests anything, you will likely pay much more than $2k. I would budget closer to $10k+.

Did he move away or did she? If she moved away with the kids, she presumably did it without the permission of the court.

In terms of clothing, there really isn't a rule. My XH is long distance and I send clothes. If I were you, I would plan to buy them clothes when they're with you. Shop off season sales and plan ahead!  

Thanks! I just told him that. I am a bargain shopper.  That is my plan. 

pbrown7781

fellesferie:

I'm posting this without reading any of the previous replies, so sorry if I'm redundant.

First, I think it's great that you are supporting and promoting his relationship with the kids.

You do need a court order. There's no way around it. And if she contests anything, you will likely pay much more than $2k. I would budget closer to $10k+.

Did he move away or did she? If she moved away with the kids, she presumably did it without the permission of the court.

In terms of clothing, there really isn't a rule. My XH is long distance and I send clothes. If I were you, I would plan to buy them clothes when they're with you. Shop off season sales and plan ahead!  

Thanks! I just told him that. I am a bargain shopper.  That is my plan. 

Ginlyn0

I'm pretty sure that even if 1 party moves to another state the CO does not become null automatically. He may not be taking his CO'ed time because of the distance but that doesn't mean it's null unless it specifically has a clause in there stating that. I know our CO doesn't become null if my EX moves out of state. It sounds like he only needs to make the effort to have it amended, but otherwise it's still legally binding.

fellesferie

pbrown7781:

He had every other week visitation, obviously that is not possible.  A new CO was not put in place.  

A parent moving to a new state does not have to hinder the relationship.  There are means in which this transition can be smoother.  I think in some situations, mothers make it difficult when it does not have to be.  Everything is fine as long as the check is coming in.  

We need to get on the ball to protect him.  My question is this...What gives her the authority to say your kids can't visit if there is no CO for her to have full custody.  I will NEVER understand this...

Thanks for the advice!!! 

Now that I'm reading replies, I have to disagree with you on this. Moving to a new state (and I'm assuming we're talking more than an hour or two distance) does hinder the relationship. Face time can't be replaced by letters and phone calls. Letters and packages and phone calls help mitigate the damage, but it's just not the same. 

The mother (or whoever is CP) can make things easier or harder, but honestly moving away is a really hard thing for a kid to understand.

I'm saying this as a CP with a long distance XH. He moved away willingly for a job and a gf. And he effectively has no parenting relationship with my DS. He couldn't tell you his teacher's name, he doesn't know what he does at school, what TV shows he watches, what time he goes to bed...

He calls and talks to DS about once a week. He sees DS 3-5 times a year. They chat. They go do fun stuff. But there is no father/child relationship. 

ETA: My XH has been 'away' for about 5 years. There are other NCPs on the board who do a much better job than him managing long distance parenting. My point is mostly that I think it would be impossible to be long distance and have the same closeness you'd have in an every-other-week agreement. 

Karma1969

Get a court order and buy your own clothes.  Send them back with the child because they won't fit by the next visit.  You can buy a weeks worth of clothes at Target for $100.

 

 

pbrown7781

fellesferie:

pbrown7781:

He had every other week visitation, obviously that is not possible.  A new CO was not put in place.  

A parent moving to a new state does not have to hinder the relationship.  There are means in which this transition can be smoother.  I think in some situations, mothers make it difficult when it does not have to be.  Everything is fine as long as the check is coming in.  

We need to get on the ball to protect him.  My question is this...What gives her the authority to say your kids can't visit if there is no CO for her to have full custody.  I will NEVER understand this...

Thanks for the advice!!! 

Now that I'm reading replies, I have to disagree with you on this. Moving to a new state (and I'm assuming we're talking more than an hour or two distance) does hinder the relationship. Face time can't be replaced by letters and phone calls. Letters and packages and phone calls help mitigate the damage, but it's just not the same. 

The mother (or whoever is CP) can make things easier or harder, but honestly moving away is a really hard thing for a kid to understand.

I'm saying this as a CP with a long distance XH. He moved away willingly for a job and a gf. And he effectively has no parenting relationship with my DS. He couldn't tell you his teacher's name, he doesn't know what he does at school, what TV shows he watches, what time he goes to bed...

He calls and talks to DS about once a week. He sees DS 3-5 times a year. They chat. They go do fun stuff. But there is no father/child relationship. 

I totally understand what you are saying. I guess I didn't state that correctly. I know how important face time is. I know that we are doing everything to make sure he's involved daily. She's just making it harder by blocking his attempts. We just need a new or amended co with stipulations for visitation etc.

pbrown7781

Correct...it does hinder the face to face relationship. I'm simply starting that we do everything to make sure he's as involved as the distance will allows. No he can't see them weekly. With the distance, he does what he can and what she allows. He's doing more than some fathers do that are in the same city. He's tired of hearing no...when he's trying.

Thank you all.....were going up the end of the week to get that order.

fellesferie

pbrown7781:

Thank you all.....were going up the end of the week to get that order.

Good luck!

Whatever you do with amending the order, make sure you put something about transportation. As he is the one that moved, I don't know that he should expect a 50/50 type split on the driving or costs, but he can certainly ask for a compromise. 

pbrown7781

fellesferie:

pbrown7781:

Thank you all.....were going up the end of the week to get that order.

Good luck!

Whatever you do with amending the order, make sure you put something about transportation. As he is the one that moved, I don't know that he should expect a 50/50 type split on the driving or costs, but he can certainly ask for a compromise. 

Thanks!

pbrown7781

fellesferie:

pbrown7781:

Thank you all.....were going up the end of the week to get that order.

Good luck!

Whatever you do with amending the order, make sure you put something about transportation. As he is the one that moved, I don't know that he should expect a 50/50 type split on the driving or costs, but he can certainly ask for a compromise. 

Thanks!

hindsight's_a_biotch

The old CO is still good until a new one is in effect. Mine was written when I lived 10 minutes from captain pain in the azz. We still adhere to what we can now that we live four hours apart and when we lived 8 hours apart. Who gets them on what holiday and what times should still be applicable, just drop the EOW.

However, I would strongly encourage getting a lawyer and getting an amended CO that includes who bears the responsibility for transportation and phone visitation as well as making allowances for other visits that aren't already stipulated given the distance. I've been trying to convince whatshisface to come get pinky when he has 4 day and 3 day weekends for two years now to no avail. I don't see why he shouldn't be able to since he can't do eow. But that's neither here nor there.

As for the clothing, there is no normal. It totally depends on what words for you guys. Personally, if I'm in your shoes, I start emailing her to get more visitation and offer to bear the burden of transportation to make her more agreeable (but later ask the judge that she cover half of at least the major visitations.) And I also buy the kids clothes to be worn during your summer visitation and send all but a few back with her BUT not sending clothes otherwise aside from an outfit for a birthday or Christmas.  

hindsight's_a_biotch

How far away did you guys move?

I think a fair transportation compromise is that she do half for major visitations like summer, Christmas, and spring break and then you guys foot the bill for things like Labor Day, Memorial Day, etc.

Littlejen22

pbrown7781:

MelRC117:

pbrown7781:

MelRC117:

1. Get a CO.  How is CS figured out if there is no CO?  Also, could prevent parental alienation which sounds like what's going on here.  Could also lay out phone calls, skype sessions, etc.

2. I would assume he'd have to buy his own clothes when they are there. 

3.  Get a CO. 

They once had a CO, but when he moved to NC that became null.  The clothes was never an issue when he is still living in the same state.  Thanks, a CO is needed! 

Hmmmm...didn't know that the CO becomes null...I would assume a new CO would be done then.  Like PPs said...your SO does have rights and without a CO it would be harder to protect them.  What if she just said no to any type of summer visitation?  If she's preventing communication you never know what could happen.  I'd honestly be peeved if I ever got divorced and H moved to a different state and I'd be protective of LO but nonetheless he is still the father and should be allowed contact.

He had every other week visitation, obviously that is not possible.  A new CO was not put in place.  

A parent moving to a new state does not have to hinder the relationship.  There are means in which this transition can be smoother.  I think in some situations, mothers make it difficult when it does not have to be.  Everything is fine as long as the check is coming in.  

We need to get on the ball to protect him.  My question is this...What gives her the authority to say your kids can't visit if there is no CO for her to have full custody.  I will NEVER understand this...

Thanks for the advice!!! 

The CO is still in order but he moved away and is no longer following it. She can refuse nything that is outside of the original CO until there is a new one.

twister22

I think PPs covered the whole get an updated CO & buy your own clothes bit. (If I was BM I would send play clothes but w/e, to each their own.) Why haven't you answered why you & DH moved? I'm not being snarky, just asking.

MommyEllenSue

BM here moved out of state from TX to NM against the courts and without telling anyone. Took DH over 6 months to find her and the kids. Because of how she did it the courts gave him a lot of time at a really young age. We have spent literally 75,000 plus on lawyers in 2 states in the last 6 years. So budget for a lot more than 2,000 that is probably just the retainer and that will go FAST. We had a 5 hour travel she had to meet us half way so 2 and a half but we still sucked it up and met every other weekend. Luckily we were able to cut other things out and do it I know not everybody has that option. We winded up just moving to NM a little over a year ago hoping it would be better for the kids and it has been. Luckily our AwESOME lawyer in TX put in a clause in the original CO to cover if their was no distance issues. We used to share clothing but BM here is pretty much a nutcase and would literally cut them up, rip soles of new shoes, and anything else you can imagine to ruin them right in front of the kids. So advice to you is get a working CO, lawyers are expensive but worth it, do what's right for the kids not BM, and BM only has as much control over the situation as you let her.

+just+j+

When your fianc?e moved, He should have gotten a lawyer to amend the CO to take in consideration all of these things. Including clothes if you think that it necessary. With her, you may have to get very detailed.

Get a lawyer, discuss with them what you want, take her to court and get a modification.  And your fianc?e might want to point out that what she's doing is Parental Alienation. It's something that can backfire on her if he can prove that is what she's doing.

I suggest he keep a very thorough record of every thing she does that hinders his relationship with the children. I have a calendar that I make notes in. It can come in handy in providing a timeline and might even be admissible in court.

 

HChad

I am so, so sorry you, your FI and the kids are going through this.  It's a really, really tough situation.

Get a lawyer and an amended CO ASAP. If you think this is bad now, it can get much, much, much worse.  I'm not going to highjack your post with our situation, but it can start off really well and fall apart in seconds.

Get a lawyer and get everything in writing.  That is the only way to protect your FI and his kids. 

pbrown7781

twister22:

I think PPs covered the whole get an updated CO & buy your own clothes bit. (If I was BM I would send play clothes but w/e, to each their own.) Why haven't you answered why you & DH moved? I'm not being snarky, just asking.

 

I had not been on, sorry. He moved due to job relocation.  We lives about 8 hours away from the kids. I am from where we live now.