Does anyone else agree? Or am I just crazy?

ImaniJ55

homebird:

Yes, people use the word "gender" wrong, but it's not my hill to die on, kwim? I'd more annoyed by the misuse of "their", "they're" and "there".nbsp;I make a point to say "sex" when referring to anatomy, except when it came to my cupcakes last. For some reason I felt weird saying "sex cupcakes", so I said "gender cupcakes" instead, lol.nbsp;FWIW when I was a FTM I posted something like this on the 2nd tri board and got flamed to crap and back. :nbsp;

Lol at "sex cupcakes". That's hilarious.

mben1119

ImaniJ55:

kxp004:

zigspective:

ImaniJ55:

JaimeCH:

luvmyducks:

I know the difference but think this whole topic is waaay blown up on TB.

Definitely this. I notice it when someone uses it incorrectly, but don't care enough to get worked up over it.

Ditto to this. I know the difference and I know what people mean when the say it. I just wonder sometimes if the ppl who are super strict with the words sex/gender say sex neutral instead of gender neutral when it comes to baby clothes lol.

No, because that makes no sense. An absence of pink ruffles and blue trucks is gender neutral, because those are society and culture based gender indicators.

All clothing is sex neutral because clothing does not have genitals. 

That's true. I'm not trying to stir the pot here but what about the babies that are born with both genitals? I know they are called hermaphrodite but what would you do then? Since they have both sexes but their gender isn't determined yet.. That's another thing that confuses me..

There is a lot of controversy around that. Traditionally, the parents choose a gender for their child, and have the genitalia altered to match. In the past, this has lead to many people having mis-matched sex and gender, as internally they may be a woman, but have a penis. Many argue the right thing to do is leave both sets of genitalia, and let the child choose when they grow up.

ImaniJ55

homebird:

ImaniJ55:

JaimeCH:

luvmyducks:

I know the difference but think this whole topic is waaay blown up on TB.

Definitely this. I notice it when someone uses it incorrectly, but don't care enough to get worked up over it.

Ditto to this. I know the difference and I know what people mean when the say it. I just wonder sometimes if the ppl who are super strict with the words sex/gender say sex neutral instead of gender neutral when it comes to baby clothes lol.

haha. point-making fail.

gender neutral means the absence of traditional/cultural gender cues (like pink and ruffles for girls, trucks and blue for boys). sex neutral would mean that they had no sex organs.

so people ARE using the term "gender neutral" correctly. 

That's good. I wasn't trying to make a point. I just stated something I wondered about.

PrimRoseMama

BelhurstBride:

I didn't read the responses but yes, it drives me nuts. Sex is biological. Gender is defined by social roles. It's 2013. Use the correct terminology.nbsp;

it only bothers me because the lack of attention/awareness, I believe, contributes to some of the pain/misunderstanding/discrimination with regards to the friends/family that I know that are transgender.

Sex is not the same as gender for a good chunk of the population. Ignoring this or sweeping it under the rug with, "well we all know what they really mean." Just because we are talking about babies doesn't mean we flush out brains and sensibility down the can.

Also, it has to do with sensitivity to other life experiences. You never know if someone's spouse etc. on here is trans. I've corrected someone on the Internet twice about it. It has nothing to do with how smart I am or want to show I am. I don't think I'm smarter than anyone else.

ImaniJ55

mabenner1:

ImaniJ55:

kxp004:

zigspective:

ImaniJ55:

JaimeCH:

luvmyducks:

I know the difference but think this whole topic is waaay blown up on TB.

Definitely this. I notice it when someone uses it incorrectly, but don't care enough to get worked up over it.

Ditto to this. I know the difference and I know what people mean when the say it. I just wonder sometimes if the ppl who are super strict with the words sex/gender say sex neutral instead of gender neutral when it comes to baby clothes lol.

No, because that makes no sense. An absence of pink ruffles and blue trucks is gender neutral, because those are society and culture based gender indicators.

All clothing is sex neutral because clothing does not have genitals. 

That's true. I'm not trying to stir the pot here but what about the babies that are born with both genitals? I know they are called hermaphrodite but what would you do then? Since they have both sexes but their gender isn't determined yet.. That's another thing that confuses me..

There is a lot of controversy around that. Traditionally, the parents choose a gender for their child, and have the genitalia altered to match. In the past, this has lead to many people having mis-matched sex and gender, as internally they may be a woman, but have a penis. Many argue the right thing to do is leave both sets of genitalia, and let the child choose when they grow up.

Thank you for the response...that is controversial.

JBMarq3

luvmyducks:

I know the difference but think this whole topic is waaay blown up on TB.

agreed.

nyki06

ImaniJ55:

kxp004:

zigspective:

ImaniJ55:

JaimeCH:

luvmyducks:

I know the difference but think this whole topic is waaay blown up on TB.

Definitely this. I notice it when someone uses it incorrectly, but don't care enough to get worked up over it.

Ditto to this. I know the difference and I know what people mean when the say it. I just wonder sometimes if the ppl who are super strict with the words sex/gender say sex neutral instead of gender neutral when it comes to baby clothes lol.

No, because that makes no sense. An absence of pink ruffles and blue trucks is gender neutral, because those are society and culture based gender indicators.

All clothing is sex neutral because clothing does not have genitals. 

That's true. I'm not trying to stir the pot here but what about the babies that are born with both genitals? I know they are called hermaphrodite but what would you do then? Since they have both sexes but their gender isn't determined yet.. That's another thing that confuses me..

People who are born with both sets of genitals are now referred to as intersex. From the classes I've taken and what I've read it's best to let the child get older and then make their own decision about surgery. I can imagine that that would be an extremely difficult choice to make as a parent because you would be constantly faced with society trying to make you choose, but at the same time the research that I've read (sorry no links) indicated that there was a better outcome for the child with waiting. One site that I just read said that the number of children who are born with genitals that are not distinguishable as male or female is around 1 in 1,500. I'm including a couple links to sites that look pretty legit if you want to get more informed on the issue.

https://www.isna.org/faq/frequency

https://www.apa.org/topics/sexuality/intersex.aspx?item=2 

ImaniJ55

nyki06:

ImaniJ55:

kxp004:

zigspective:

ImaniJ55:

JaimeCH:

luvmyducks:

I know the difference but think this whole topic is waaay blown up on TB.

Definitely this. I notice it when someone uses it incorrectly, but don't care enough to get worked up over it.

Ditto to this. I know the difference and I know what people mean when the say it. I just wonder sometimes if the ppl who are super strict with the words sex/gender say sex neutral instead of gender neutral when it comes to baby clothes lol.

No, because that makes no sense. An absence of pink ruffles and blue trucks is gender neutral, because those are society and culture based gender indicators.

All clothing is sex neutral because clothing does not have genitals. 

That's true. I'm not trying to stir the pot here but what about the babies that are born with both genitals? I know they are called hermaphrodite but what would you do then? Since they have both sexes but their gender isn't determined yet.. That's another thing that confuses me..

People who are born with both sets of genitals are now referred to as intersex. From the classes I've taken and what I've read it's best to let the child get older and then make their own decision about surgery. I can imagine that that would be an extremely difficult choice to make as a parent because you would be constantly faced with society trying to make you choose, but at the same time the research that I've read (sorry no links) indicated that there was a better outcome for the child with waiting. One site that I just read said that the number of children who are born with genitals that are not distinguishable as male or female is around 1 in 1,500. I'm including a couple links to sites that look pretty legit if you want to get more informed on the issue.

https://www.isna.org/faq/frequency

https://www.apa.org/topics/sexuality/intersex.aspx?item=2 

I swear if there is one thing I love about these boards, beside birth announcements, is all the information you all provide. Thank you so much for the links.

juliet73537

jebrmbbeb:

It does not bother me at all. I don't even think about it. That is how people talk and refer to the sex of the baby a lot of the time; everyone knows this. So those that feel the need to correct others and explain how bad it annoys them, well to them I say good luck because you will be annoyed a lot and have many people to correct. And there's a good chance the person they're correcting already knows the technical difference but maybe they don't want to say hey we're having a sex party. Gender sounds better.

 

This is the best response

juliet73537

PrimRoseMama:

BelhurstBride:

I didn't read the responses but yes, it drives me nuts. Sex is biological. Gender is defined by social roles. It's 2013. Use the correct terminology.nbsp;

it only bothers me because the lack of attention/awareness, I believe, contributes to some of the pain/misunderstanding/discrimination with regards to the friends/family that I know that are transgender. Sex is not the same as gender for a good chunk of the population. Ignoring this or sweeping it under the rug with, "well we all know what they really mean." Just because we are talking about babies doesn't mean we flush out brains and sensibility down the can. Also, it has to do with sensitivity to other life experiences. You never know if someone's spouse etc. on here is trans. I've corrected someone on the Internet twice about it. It has nothing to do with how smart I am or want to show I am. I don't think I'm smarter than anyone else.

I wouldn't call less than 4% of the American people a "good chunk of the populat?on."

mben1119

juliet73537:

PrimRoseMama:

BelhurstBride:

I didn't read the responses but yes, it drives me nuts. Sex is biological. Gender is defined by social roles. It's 2013. Use the correct terminology.nbsp;

it only bothers me because the lack of attention/awareness, I believe, contributes to some of the pain/misunderstanding/discrimination with regards to the friends/family that I know that are transgender. Sex is not the same as gender for a good chunk of the population. Ignoring this or sweeping it under the rug with, "well we all know what they really mean." Just because we are talking about babies doesn't mean we flush out brains and sensibility down the can. Also, it has to do with sensitivity to other life experiences. You never know if someone's spouse etc. on here is trans. I've corrected someone on the Internet twice about it. It has nothing to do with how smart I am or want to show I am. I don't think I'm smarter than anyone else.

I wouldn't call less than 4% of the American people a "good chunk of the populat?on."

12.4 million isn't a good chunk? 

juliet73537

kxp004:

StarshineR:

I *do* understand the difference that many people believe exists between gender and sex. I am aware of the politics involved and how people are really worried about offending the very small percentage of people out there who identify themselves as transsexuals, but it's not just informed by LGBT politics, but also feminism. Feminists - or at least the more extreme ones - believe there is no difference between the *genders* at all, and that every difference that we see is socially ingrained. I once believed in that myself in my naive youth. It's also a grave mistake to assume that such a difference - if one exists - isn't socially, culturally, or biologically important. They have always been important and they always will be - in almost every culture, esp. advanced ones - that have ever existed. There's a reason why we'll never have a completely androgynous society. In modern times, victim politics has gotten out of hand. No one wants to feel like they are marginalizing anyone - so they start pushing for changes in how words are defined and everyone starts to say things that are a little bit nutty.

It's not wrong to treat gender as a synonym of sex, because it's *common usage*. Common Usage is not wrong. It's how language works. Words have meanings because *people give them meanings*. Words can also have a variety of meanings - or do you not know that? 

The only people who get upset about it are those who are usually politically motivated to push a certain agenda on the public at large. Again, this is for fear of offending somebody. And if you're going to tell me that the distinction between *gender* and *sex* is not made and insisted upon because of politics (instead of serious research and study), well, that's just laughable. 

 In common usage, there is no difference between gender and sex. It's what most of us have learned growing up, and it's only after going to university and being exposed to gender politics, that people start to feel guilty about it. I have no shame in using common usage, and I won't be bullied or guilted into changing the way I speak (or write).

I have the utmost compassion and respect for everyone - including LGBT people - but I have zero toleration for those who try and tell me how to think, speak, or act.  

ummm I completely disagree with you... gender and sex are different because one explains anatomical features and the other is societal or cultural.... not because us "feminists" are worried about offending someone's sensibilities.... and yes there are biological differences between the *sexes* but society is what decides what is appropriate for each *gender*... and laugh all you want but it's not all political... there are significant scientific studies that I have read for my thesis that show the differences...Google scholar has tons of *scientific articles* that you can look at... do people use it for politics? absolutely, but that doesn't mean it's solely political... 

I have no agenda to push on anyone... and it still makes me irritated when people misuse the two... people don't like using the word sex and that's really what it comes down to... if we called it a sex party on a regular basis, it wouldn't be so awkward that people feel they need to say gender party....

am I going to be a biitch about it and jump on them for misusing the words? no but I will most likely say something...  

 Alright, so this whole response is exactly the kind of people that I picture jumping all over someone for misuse of this word.  Look, I'm very educated (I have my master's degree) and have taken all kinds of sociology and psychology classes (I was a psych major), and I really don't care if people use these terms interchangeably.  In fact, I do all the time.  Even this website uses the terms interchangeably.  It's common in this society to do so and I have ONLY seen it be a big deal on this website.  Everyone just calm down...take a deep breath....and smile   There are bigger fish to fry....

juliet73537

mabenner1:

juliet73537:

PrimRoseMama:

BelhurstBride:

I didn't read the responses but yes, it drives me nuts. Sex is biological. Gender is defined by social roles. It's 2013. Use the correct terminology.nbsp;

it only bothers me because the lack of attention/awareness, I believe, contributes to some of the pain/misunderstanding/discrimination with regards to the friends/family that I know that are transgender. Sex is not the same as gender for a good chunk of the population. Ignoring this or sweeping it under the rug with, "well we all know what they really mean." Just because we are talking about babies doesn't mean we flush out brains and sensibility down the can. Also, it has to do with sensitivity to other life experiences. You never know if someone's spouse etc. on here is trans. I've corrected someone on the Internet twice about it. It has nothing to do with how smart I am or want to show I am. I don't think I'm smarter than anyone else.

I wouldn't call less than 4% of the American people a "good chunk of the populat?on."

12.4 million isn't a good chunk? 

 

it's still only 4%.....it's like if I lose 1 lb, no biggie, but if my newborn baby loses 1 lb, it's a big deal!!  It's a much larger percentage.  and 4% is just people identifying themselves with the LGBT community, doesn't necessarily mean they are transgender....so no, it's not a good chunk

audbeach

luvmyducks:

I know the difference but think this whole topic is waaay blown up on TB.

Thank you.  I'm SO over this being corrected every time someone posts something about it.  We all know what the OP means when they say gender instead of sex.

everchangingcycles

Melissa 4637:

Sex is a synonym for gender in many dictionaries, sometimes with the additional definition of the characteristics associated with sex.  I don't think people should be correcting for something that is not technically wrong.  Does anyone who thinks gender is not determined until later in life plan on decorating gender neutral and dressing their child neutrally, so they can make their own choice on who they want to be or are you going with social norms pink/blue etc.? 

I'm doing my best to have a wide range of choices for my unborn child. Most everything (clothing, decorations, toys, books, etc.) I have purchased up to this point are "gender neutral" blue, pink, purple, white, yellow, or whatever else I have. I grew up as a tomboy liking all things "boy." I liked absolutely nothing girly at all. This was all until about 8th grade when my family and I moved and I made new friends and tried to fit in. I am a female, and socially, I am a girl. I used to want to be a boy, but I believe my environment changed that since. My mom did a good job of giving us the freedom to choose between boy things, and girl things, and I intend to offer those same opportunities. And to that I like to think of ways to add more options. Why not have both girl and boy things?