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Natural Birth
Highest CS rate? My BMB
Think I am quitting my BMB.
The amount of CS is out of control. And most of them are of the classic early epi or induction for big baby, then either stalled at 6cm or baby never turned or descended. So they had an "emergency" CS.
Painful to read.
I am so sorry for these women. All of them FTM who now have little chance of having a vaginal delivery if they have another child.
This discussion has been closed.
Re: Highest CS rate? My BMB
I'm on your BMB too actually and I am planning a HB. Only, I was facing a CS bc my baby turned breech at 39w (my MW does not deliver breech.) I had a version and thankfully it was successful, but I'm just really down in the dumps, feeling sore and deflated, and completely disconnected from my baby and this pregnancy. I'm terrified that's she flipping back at every movement I feel. Bc of this, I can completely relate to how these women feel. I don't judge their choices but I do mourn for those who were hoping for a vaginal birth... As long as they are happy with their choices and/or outcome I can't judge.
But I will say it annoys me at the over use of the term "emergency CS" on TB in general.
Honestly, it is disconcerting, but not surprising at all. Their experiences are hard to read, but not at all atypical. When a FTM walks into a hospital they essentially have a 1 in 3 chance of walking out with a scar on their uterus. It's closer to 1 in 2 if they're induced and there have also been a lot of inductions.
TBH when I first started posting on our BMB I wondered if I would even be able to hang out there once everyone started having their babies. It's been easier than I thought it would, but I also tend to gloss over a lot of the birth stories. It's hard because I became one of those statistics with my first baby and now will be attempting a VBAC.
I think the thing that's most frustrating to me around the bump in general is how so many people seem to not really think about their decisions and what the impact will be. Obviously there are medical situations where it's safer to induce or deliver baby by C/S, it does happen, but it seems that far too often people are so flippant about inductions and worry more about dealing with Pitocin induced contractions, rather than thinking about the fact that baby is having to deal with those contractions as well. Or they're all, well, if I have to have a C/S that's fine, as long as we're both healthy! And while, of course, that's what every mom wants C/S comes with very real risks that must be weighed and can have very real long term impacts on your reproductive health and options with pregnancy and childbirth in the future. I just wish some people took these decisions more seriously. And I'm not saying that ALL people are like this, just that I see far too many who are. But I guess ultimately it's their baby, their body, and their choice as to how they look at things.
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agreed.
Women who have csections don't need to be pitied. I have had one. I have also had a home waterbirth. One experience was not better than the other, and I resent the implication that anyone would feel the need to grieve my lack of vaginal birth had I opted for a repeat csection.
Re: "emergency csection." As per my OB, midwife, and LD nurse friend, there are two types of csections, planned and emergency. If you have an unplanned csection, it is classified as an emergency csection in your paperwork. I asked this after seeing in my own paperwork that I had an "emergency" csection when I did not feel it was an emergency. As such, I bet many women call their csection what their OB called it. Obviously we know that there are "emergencies" and then there are EMERGENCIES!.
I get from your post that you would like to reduce the amount of unnecessary csections, the ones rushed to by busy OBs who want to go home, etc. The way to do that isn't to shun or avoid women who are simply doing what we all should be able to do, rely on medical advice from our physicians. What we need is more education, both for patients and the medical community.
I agree. The OP seems really judgmental to me. It would almost serve you right to end up with a c-section. Be nice! No one is any better because of how they give birth.
OP - I totally get your frustration. It's the same way I feel when I watch shows like A Baby Story and all of the misinformation that is being passed off. I'm not judging the mothers (although I do feel sorry for them because I feel like they are a victim of the birth system), it's more just an overall frustration with the way women are convinced that their bodies have "failed" or that they did something wrong when really they were just uninformed or talked into doing something unnecessary. I had to stop watching shows like that because they upset me so much. If the same thing starts happening on my BMB I will probably not want to read the stories anymore and feel the same way - not judging the mothers, but just feeling bad for them and frustrated that when that particular birth story is told over and over again everyone will focus on the "life-saving emergency c-section" and forget what caused it - the interventions, not the woman who was told her body "failed" her. And that spread of misinformation is part of the problem and one of the reasons the birth culture in this country isn't going to change any time soon.
But I don't think anyone should sit around feeling sorry for all those poor women who were lead to believe their c/s was necessary. None of us were there. It's really really hard to advocate for yourself when you're in labor. Doctors are very good at convincing women to do things, even if it's coming from a benevolent place. Women are making the best choices they can with the information they are given even if that info is faulty. A lot of having a successful vaginal birth right now is just luck of the damn draw, quite honestly.
I think people should get pissed off the system is so screwed up that we are even having a conversation about how many c/s are probably unnecessary on a BMB.
DS2 - Oct 2010 (my VBAC baby!)
Meh. If I end up with a CS I wouldn't have a problem with it. Because I'm well informed about what leads to unnecessary ones and will do my best to avoid those interventions/type of care.
And yes, I hear all of your complaints about my judgmental tone. Too bad we can't be sitting down for coffee and discussing this because I am not feeling judgmental of these women - just that this is the reality for hospital births now.
Women are either not given the information that would allow them to avoid a lot of the interventions that lead to a CS or they're birthing at a hospital which has a CS rate. And from having friends go through it I've been told it's terribly frustrating and emotionally difficult to try a VBAC when you can look back on you first birth and see that if you had avoided certain interventions you may have avoided a CS.
The last time I was on TB was over 3 years ago. There were no where near as many CSs last time around. It was more like 1 in 3 which seemed statistically 'normal' based on who is on the bump (mostly Americans). But this BMB seems like 1 in 2, maybe more.
Maybe it's only the CS moms posting their stories? I'm not on the Facebook group so perhaps I'm not reading a fair sample of birth stories from this birth month.
I was taught in my prenatal classes that there are 3 types of c-sections. Planned, unplanned, and emergency. Planned is obviously when you set a date and go to the hospital knowing you are having a c-section. Unplanned is when you intend to go vaginally and end up with a c-section because things aren't progressing, heart rate is concerning, induction didn't go as planned, etc. And an emergency c-section is a true emergency where they put you under general sedation because it is such an emergency that they don't even have time to give you an epi (things like umbilical cord prolapse).
This is just what I was told though, it could be different where you live (I'm in Canada).
Just wait until half of them quit breastfeeding and are encouraged and supported in this decision by the other bottlefeeders because they feel too stressed out and bottle feeding will be less stressful and after all "a happy mom = a happy baby".
I feel so bad for saying that but it was shocking the amount of people that actually encouraged others to quit bfing when they had struggles and were stressed.
I think it's important at the end of your pregnancy to surround yourself with positive energy. If you don't get that from your BMB, then absolutely quit it. I often feel the same way about "textbook" c-sections. I don't want to hear another round of the same story. It's depressing for me, even if they are fine with it.
I think I'm quitting mine because I just can not deal with those women.
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This situation was the fault of the doctors. No amount of complaining from any woman regardless of her age should convince a doctor to do something that's unsafe. Easy to blame a teen mom since they are a pretty easy target for most people but the OB had a job to do that clearly they didn't do well if the doctor actually induced labour to satisfy a woman who just wanted to be done early.
EDIT Forgot to add, I agree that we really shoudn't judge how mothers have their babies. It doesn't really upset me to see women who have had c-sections but are happy with their experience. Maybe they weren't entirely necessary (I wouldn't know) but if the mother and baby are healthy and she is happy, I'm not going to feel bad for them.
That's really F'ed up to say & wish on someone. I don't feel she's judging the moms but the hospital/medical system these women delivered in. I feel bad for my friend who wanted a natural birth, went past her due date just a few days, opted for an induction, and like so many inductions, ended up with "failure to progress" and a C/S. I don't pity her, she's happy baby is finally here and doesn't regret anything. I just feel bad b/c she ended up so of course from what she wanted b/c our health system doesn't know how to leave our bodies alone if everything is well but not going as "planned" or expected...
So true. This is where I am coming from.
I'm a STM and significantly older than most of the women on my BMB. My interests and experiences are quite different from the general chatter and norm on there. Time to move on.
I'm not referring to people choosing or not choosing meds for labour. Just the statistically very high rate of unplanned CS on my BMB.
Their birth experience doesn't affect me. I was saying that reading all of the unplanned CS birth stories was disheartening.
Good luck on your med-free birth.
I could have written this verbatim.
As far as why you would care about other women's L&D experiences it's because every pregnancy and birth plays into the overall birth culture that we're all a part of. I don't judge individual women as a rule (although, as I said in my PP I really do wish that more women would do more research, but the unfortunate thing is really that we have to do that research and advocate for ourselves in the first place. Our current model of care is to blame for that. But until more women do the research and advocate for themselves change isn't going to happen, you know?), and I'm truly glad when a woman is at peace with her birth experience, whatever that is, but I do feel frustrated when it seems someone becomes yet another statistic. That was me and as someone else mentioned it is now very difficult emotionally to have an uphill battle to attempt a VBAC when hindsight is 20/20 and I know that I got caught up in the medical model of care and likely had an unnecessary C/S (it likely wasn't unnecessary at the time, but what led up to it could have been what changed everything, I'll never really know).
I think for me the most frustrating thing I see is "I really, really don't want to be induced, but I'm going to be 41 weeks so I have an induction scheduled because my doctor won't let me go past 41 weeks!". It just makes me cringe every time. And again, it's not that I blame the woman or think she's stupid or anything like that, it's just so frustrating to see how common the 41 week arbitrary cut off has become and because of our birth culture women feel like they have to be "allowed" to continue their pregnancies or that they don't have any choice but to blindly follow their provider's recommendation.
It's really not fair that in order to ensure you're getting the best care possible that you have to be so well informed. For me, the baffling thing is the choices that care providers make, it's just frustrating that women don't know to question it. That's what gets me. Women are groomed not to trust their body's natural abilities when it comes to birth.
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I don't think OP is judging the mothers. I think she is judging the birth system, and I happen to agree. I think a lot of the inductions and c/s that occur are unnecessary. Yes, there are cases in which they are absolutely necessary and life-saving.
I also think there's a huge double standard going on here. OP gets flamed for speaking out about unnecessary c/s, but many posters going in for early inductions etc. that aren't medically necessary are often sympathized with and no other options are presented.
Full disclosure: I'm a lurker who did not have a natural birth, though before I was pregnant I was very interested in having one.
It's very patronizing to "feel so sorry" for women who have given birth to healthy children by C-section. While you can speculate as to the necessity of their C-sections, you don't know the full story - their medical history, their comfort level with interventions, or their comfort with the risks inherent in labor and delivery. Certainly if a woman regrets consenting to an intervention and ended up with a C-section she really didn't want it's good to empathize with her and support her, but if she doesn't care - well, why should you?
I was fairly open about the reasons behind the highly interventionist nature of my pregnancy and labor, if only to fend off BMB critics who would judge me for not being better educated. The truth is I was about as educated as anyone on The Bump on these sorts of things, and I did not choose natural birth. A woman's decision to have a medicalized birth is not a reflection on your birth. I understand that it can be frustrating to feel that you're swimming against the tide, but rather than judging other women, focus instead on how you can achieve your goal of natural birth and support other women who have the same goal.
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Amen. I too am mostly a lurker, I did not have a NB, though I have posted here before about why I used some NB techniques.
But I am frequently dismayed by the amount of judgment I see on this board. I never thought the decisions I make in collaboration with my medical team were up for judgment by people who have no idea of my circumstances or beliefs.
And just because someone didn't make the same decision as you doesn't make it uneducated or irresponsible. For a board of posters who frequently complain that they are aren't supported in their decisions, or that they feel judged, I find many of those same posters doing the exact same thing.
Same as where I work (NY) -- on our charting, it's scheduled/urgent/emergent. As in, you scheduled this weeks in advance vs. you aren't going home with an inside baby and going to call and schedule a C/S vs. we're going NOW, rolling down the hallway while pushing meds/holding a Doppler/calling anesthesia.
OP, I'm on your BMB too - and I get where you're coming from about our board - esp. maturity level...sometimes it just isn't worth commenting on certain threads. That said, I do think, based on my experience anyway, natural birth/med-free birth is extremely difficult to negotiate in a traditional hospital setting, and if I had given birth at the age many of these girls did instead of now when I'm 30, I'm not sure I would have had the confidence to stand my ground on declining interventions. That might sound ridiculous, but frankly ten years ago, I was not the woman of conviction I am now. Nevertheless, I was extremely conscious of how I voiced my concerns/wishes during labor, which in retrospect I probably didn't need to concern myself so much with, but I didn't want to be obnoxious to the nurses/doctor and have anybody push back even more than they already were about pitocin, for example. I knew I wouldn't be a screamer, but when the doctor and nurse commented how controlled I was throughout and "women with the drugs are far less controlled" - well, as gratifying as that was to hear in its own way, I immediately wondered if the fear of how I might handle/not handle the pain was part of their push to give me drugs in the first place??! I still wonder.
I will say, this board helped me realize I absolutely have the right to decline any treatment, and I'm very thankful for that. The system we find ourselves in sucks for lots of complex reasons, and the best we can do is make our personal decisions based on what's best for our own families I guess...
p.s. Please don't leave our BMB! Or if you do, take me with you, haha!
FWIW, Iris, I said essentially the same thing in my post. It's not that I pity women in what I feel is a negative way. I don't feel sorry for them, because after all they have a healthy baby in the end. It's more of a "that's unfortunate" kind of feeling, especially when I know that they went into it wanting a certain type of experience. Hearing the stories just makes me more frustrated with the "system". KWIM?
I don't think it's about feeling sorry for women because the birth didn't go the way I think it should go. It's about feeling bad that a woman didn't get the experience SHE wanted. If a woman went into it wanting her c/s and got it, that's wonderful. I'm happy for her. If she went into it wanting a vaginal birth with low intervention and ended up with a c/s and she is not happy with that, I do think it's unfortunate. I've been around these boards long enough and read too many stories, I guess.
I totally agree. If a women needs a C/S for medical reasons or even wants a C/s I am fine with that. It is her right to decide how she wants to deliver her baby. However, I do wish that the providers educated women more on what can happen during inductions and how the process will go. I have a close friend who was talked into an induction by her OB. She thought it was great because she would know when her LO would be here. After 48 hours of labor she had to have an emergency C/S. Later she told me that she was really confused about inductions and should have read up/done some research on what could happen. Since her provided did not mention anything she was never aware that she may fail to progress, baby may not descend, and heart rate drops may occur. She was not upset about having a C/S but she did wish she knew more going into her induction. I wish more providers would talk to women about the process so that they are informed and can decide if it is the right choice for them.
As a mother I feel you have a duty to give you child the best start possible within your power. If an emergency comes up and you need a c/s fine, if you dont and you can go natural even better. Whatever will give you a healthy baby.
HOWEVER, I completly agree with the OP, the issue is with the medical system. My main issue is with drs/nurses and hospitals (and honestly even some midwives) that make a million and one suggestions without telling the WHOLE truth about side effects. I DO feel sorry for women that are pushed, coerced and even bullied when they are at their most vulnerable.How are you supposed to give informed consent, when you haven't been informed properly??
I had a doctors tell me that I should just trust his judgement because he has "been doing this for 25 years".My reply was " Well I've had this body for 31 years so what's your point?". Now its a beautiful thing to see more and more women educating themselves on childbirth as opposed to 10 years ago when I was the 21 year old oddball being cared to by a midwife and having a natural birth at a birthing center. But alot of strides still need to be made.
Of course. If a woman wants a vaginal birth and has a c/s and is upset about it, I totally empathize with her. I get very frustrated with the system just like you do. I wouldn't be on this board otherwise. But as a mom who has been in the kind of situation she described, there was just something off-putting to me about her tone, that's all.
Here we go again...please stop blaming women for their c/s, thanks!
I was "prepared" (and probably to your satisfaction) and I still ended up w a possibly preventable c/s. So were lots of other women.
What if a woman doesn't know where to start with researching birth? What if she doesn't know she has options, or her insurance doesn't cover a low-intervention-friendly practice? Women don't even *have* to research the crap out of birth options if they don't want to - it's a sign that the maternity system is completely screwed up that women think they can't trust their providers to have their best interest in mind. There are a lot more issues that women being "ignorant" that's causing high c/s rates.
DS2 - Oct 2010 (my VBAC baby!)
It's not okay to say that some women "deserve" a c/s because they're "ignorant", and didn't do enough research. Like I said before, maybe they don't have the resources, etc., or maybe they just don't want to research labor and birth. It's the system that is screwed up, not individual women who may or may not be making the choices you want them to.
As for your friend, it sounds like she doesn't care either way if she has/had a c-section. In which case, why is that your business?
This is a good post that sums up what I'm talking about:
https://birthingbeautifulideas.com/?p=5327
DS2 - Oct 2010 (my VBAC baby!)