Attachment Parenting

Discipline suggestions

Okeee...no response to long "Help!" post explaining the situation...I know you are all very busy people!  :)

 How about this instead...

 We desperately need suggestions for helping our 6-year-old daughter manage her behavior and understand the necessity of following our house rules.

Some of her "infractions" include:

-Sassing

-Answering back

-Rolling eyes

-Listening and following directions (i.e. The couch is only for sitting. She will still jump on it and say she forgot.)

-Telling the truth

-Being respectful in general

-Hitting or shoving past when she is in trouble

 

Thanks!! :)

 

 

Re: Discipline suggestions

  • Wait, so your DH gives her short, non helpful responses to her behavior and now you're having a problem with "sassing?" And he really doesn't see the connection? Kids learn what they see. 
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  • imageClaryPax:

    OK- in regards to your previous post, I would have a discussion with your husband about the things he says to your daughter and how they are not helping the situation.  I would read some discipline books and get some ideas and come up with a discipline plan.  In your other post a book was suggested, sorry I don't have any AP books.  I read 123 Magic, and do time outs occasionally and limited to bigger infractions.  It was a good read for not using your emotions when disciplining which may help your H.

     For sassing and answering back, I would tell her she needs to speak respectful.  Sorry I don't have any other solutions.  For jumping on the couch, she loses her couch privileges.  When my 2 year old stands on the couch I give him a warning and the second time I put him on the floor.

    Have you tried a sticker chart for every day she acts respectful?  Then she gets a reward for so many days. 


    We get into sometimes heated discussions about how he speaks to her. You know the "you have to give respect to get it" "show her by doing it" and all that jazz.

    The sassing needs a definite escalation in showing her we mean business.

    Something similar to a sticker chart may be effective.  I'm going to put more thought into that and offer it up for discussion.

     

    Thanks!!

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  • https://community.thebump.com/cs/ks/forums/thread/71159830.aspx

    Is this the post you're talking about? I had to search for it.

    Anyhow, a lot of the behavior you are talking about is typical of a 6 years old. However, that doesn't mean it's acceptable. It's also not acceptable for your H to say the things he's saying.

    What kind of positive rewards do you have in place? Can you do a sticker chart or even a marble jar? If you do a marble jar she can lose marbles for inappropriate behavior and earn marbles to earn special rewards. What kind of things does she like? If she earns 5 marbles she gets ice cream, or a piece of candy, or a special trip to town with Mommy etc. Motivate her positively.

    While my DD is less than 2, I do run a program on Wednesday nights for kids in my town. They earn rewards for making good choices but they can also lose those rewards if they make poor choices.

    We also use timeout for really inappropriate behaviors. (Hitting, kicking, bad language, breaking the same rule multiple weeks in a row etc.) The child gets 1 warning. (a lot of times this is all they need) If they repeat the behavior, they sit one minute per each year old. After the timeout we talk. I get down to their level and they tell me what they did wrong. OR if the child doesn't have the words, I give them to him. I always make sure I am giving the child a chance to talk and explain what he or she is feeling. We pray for forgiveness and I acknowledge forgiveness. The child also must apologize to anyone their behavior affected.

    So, for instance, if she rolls her eyes I would get down to her level and say "It's not appropriate for you to roll your eyes at me. It hurts my feelings. You need to say you're sorry." If she does it again, give her a warning. If she is still disrespectful, give her a timeout. I honestly believe if you're consistent with timeout you really don't have to do it often.

    Make a big deal out of her good choices. Positive praise is great prevention for negative behavior. 

    Okay one more thing to end my novel of a post. Make sure you aren't putting adult expectations on a child. Children need to run on full tummies, they can only sit still for so long and they genuinely desire affection, attention and praise. Let her know that the things that are important to her are important to you.

    (I lied, one more) BTW I know this isn't totally AP advice and I think there are a lot of benefits to logical consequences but in my experience sometimes timeout is needed. You can also try a calm down jar. (It's kind of like an hour glass and she has to sit until the sand from one end makes it to the other end) There is a lot of information out there and there's not one method that works for every kid, every time. I do hope you and your husband find a something that works for you.

     


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  • imageBelhurstBride:
    Wait, so your DH gives her short, non helpful responses to her behavior and now you're having a problem with "sassing?" And he really doesn't see the connection? Kids learn what they see. 

    If manners aren't modeled to children, you can't expect children to use them. Children model adults, so adults should model the behavior they want to see in their kids.


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  • imageBelhurstBride:
    Wait, so your DH gives her short, non helpful responses to her behavior and now you're having a problem with "sassing?" And he really doesn't see the connection? Kids learn what they see. 

    This is exactly how I feel about it.  I believe that she is not only copying her behavior though.  I think she feels completely attacked by him, and even sometimes me.  I know I am not an angel.  My mean mommy comes out rarely but usually when I have tried many times to connect and correct and it has gone nowhere.

    I don't want to have the "these behaviors are because of your behaviors" talk but I really feel like that is what is happening.  There are very gentle ways to correct her that usually work for me.  But he will react in a way that escalates the entire situation and then her behavior INSTANTLY turns for the worse...full of attitude.  I see it happening before my eyes but if I step in I am told that I am taking away his ability to parent and undermining his authority.

    ACK!!

  • imagefredalina:
    And FWIW, I freaking hate sticker charts/marble jars/etc.

    Hey, I added a this is not strictly AP disclaimer Stick out tongue


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  • imagefredalina:
    imageLatteLady5:

    imagefredalina:
    And FWIW, I freaking hate sticker charts/marble jars/etc.

    Hey, I added a this is not strictly AP disclaimer Stick out tongue

    LOL, my comment is partially an inside joke. Someone on another board commented that "Bumpies sure do love sticker charts" the other day on another board, and I responded the same way then. Truthfully, though, I think they may be fine in extreme moderation. A once a week program after school or a very specific issue like potty training that should resolve itself and hopefully never need addressing again. I don't like them for schools and I like them even less for home because it seems kind of demeaning, and also devalues doing a good job. "You're a respectful, responsible person! Congratulations, that's worth a dollar and you can get anything you want at the dollar store!" It's just sort of like candy: okay occasionally and in small doses but not every day.

    Haha I actually agree with you in part. I just think that when parents disagree it's important to find a middle ground and sticker charts/timeout are a million times better than belittling kids. :) Maybe OP's H would be more inclined to try something like that. Ya know?!?

    I also think they work well for specific situations like potty training, or in OP's case, being respectful, speaking nicely etc. 

    AND We're still working on "stickers are not for eating" around here so take my advice at face value Stick out tongue


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  • I don't want to have the "these behaviors are because of your behaviors" talk but I really feel like that is what is happening.  There are very gentle ways to correct her that usually work for me.  But he will react in a way that escalates the entire situation and then her behavior INSTANTLY turns for the worse...full of attitude.  I see it happening before my eyes but if I step in I am told that I am taking away his ability to parent and undermining his authority.

    ACK!!

    Can you take a video and show it to him later?

    And, if it's that bad, I might step in anyway - but talking to HIM, not her.  Support *what* is is requesting, but not how, if that makes sense.  And talk to him about it afterwards.  You guys need to learn better communication if he always feels attacked (and I'm not singling either of you out for being at fault - communication is a two-person affair), but it's vital to make sure you parent on a similar page. 

    Edit: ok, I just re-read the post.  Honestly, I think you guys should see a family counselor.  Or she will end up seeing one when she's an adult, for a few years, at least.  My dad did the same sh*t to me, and it can mess you up.  It will get worse as she gets older, if he doesn't nip it in the bud.  (And, for what it's worth, I loved my dad when I was a kid, but I haven't talked to him in 10 years.) 

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  • Sorry for the length; I kept thinking of more things...   

    I work with families & find that many fathers/parents make statements like that out of defense when they feel attacked by the child. ("Grow up.  Get over it. I make the money and the rules...")  

    At one time or another, most parents have some feelings of frustration because they give so much for their kids and the kids don't appreciate it or recognize the significance of the sacrifices they make. Parents make themselves very vulnerable to their children, and naturally desire emotional loyalty and kindness in return.  When kids fail to give this (because, after all, they're kids and have yet to understand empathy and sacrifice), some parents adopt attitudes such as your husband's as a defensive stance, to assert that they are not emotionally swayed by the child's unkind sass or insensitive remarks.

    Sort of like when a kid on the playground says, "I hate you, you're a stupid head," and the other kid replies, "Oh yea?  Well I never wanted to be your friend in the first place because you smell."  The second kid is trying to demonstrate that he's untouched by the first kid's insults, but the fact that he responds in like manner actually indicates the opposite.

    The fact that he accused your daughter of "owning" you seems a clear indication that he senses a real threat.  If he really were as impervious as he wants to be perceived, he wouldn't feel the need to respond to the threat.  Like the kid on the playground who has enough "strength" to give back sass for sass, it sounds like your husband is feeling attacked & striving to prove that he's the strongest. 

    The problem is that human beings, even six year olds, are clever enough to understand & respond to this tactic even though they can't articulate it.  This is what is happening when she throws back, "I don't care!" when she's sent to her room. She's playing right along with your husband by demonstrating that HE doesn't own HER, either.  She's refusing to have her feelings manipulated by him--which, to be fair, is exactly what he's attempting to do with his discipline ("If she doesn't feel sad by the consequences, then it has no effect on her").

    I think this is important to understand because it may change how or what you address with your husband.  He may feel even more defensive if he's told that his parenting techniques are adding to the problem.  He may appreciate, however, understanding that your daughter's misbehavior is not necessarily a reflection on how she feels about him, their relationship, or his role as a father.  That is to say, her misbehavior isn't a threat to him or his position.

    IOW, I agree with what you implied in your post: that everyone will be better off if your husband quits taking it personally when your daughter misbehaves.  You stated as much, yourself.

    I believe that it is appropriate to use these opportunities to teach your child that sass and rude words are unacceptable because they hurt people's feelings, not just because it will result in other people being rude back.

    In addition, there may be something else the two of you want to discuss in a very safe, nonthreatening environment (counseling, a weekend at home with the two of you, etc.).  Namely, his own feelings regarding being a dad.  Inadequacies, fears, left over hurts from his own upbringing.  Some adults feel like they "served their time" under their parents' rule, and they've waited patiently for their own chance to "be the adult" and receive that which they felt their parents demanded of them.  Turn about's fair play, right?

    One more thing:  Rather thinking of discipline as a technique to make someone sorry for their actions--which relies primarily on manipulation of the emotions--consider discipline as just the natural result of a particular (sometimes inadvisable) behavior and more or less devoid of emotion.   I tell the parents I work with to think of their discipline as kind of like gravity.  Gravity doesn't say, "You're so hard-headed!  I've told you not to jump off the roof twice already.  This time I'm REALLY going to make you regret it.  You won't try this again after I'm done with you."  Nope.  Gravity just pulls you straight to the earth every time.  Sometimes it takes many falls of the exact same kind before a jumper decides that it's not worth it.  Sometimes they never decide to stop jumping--they just use their understanding of gravity to invent jump-ropes, trampolines, hang gliders, parachutes, and airplanes.  Which, really, is pretty great.

     

  • I did not read through all of the previous posts so I apologize if it has already been mentioned. Parenting with Love and Logic might be something you might look into. It is similar to 1,2,3 Magic. It focuses a lot on natural consequences and balancing the need for control with kids by giving choices.
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  • imageFaith7:

    Sorry for the length; I kept thinking of more things...   

    I work with families & find that many fathers/parents make statements like that out of defense when they feel attacked by the child. ("Grow up.  Get over it. I make the money and the rules...")  

    At one time or another, most parents have some feelings of frustration because they give so much for their kids and the kids don't appreciate it or recognize the significance of the sacrifices they make. Parents make themselves very vulnerable to their children, and naturally desire emotional loyalty and kindness in return.  When kids fail to give this (because, after all, they're kids and have yet to understand empathy and sacrifice), some parents adopt attitudes such as your husband's as a defensive stance, to assert that they are not emotionally swayed by the child's unkind sass or insensitive remarks.

    Sort of like when a kid on the playground says, "I hate you, you're a stupid head," and the other kid replies, "Oh yea?  Well I never wanted to be your friend in the first place because you smell."  The second kid is trying to demonstrate that he's untouched by the first kid's insults, but the fact that he responds in like manner actually indicates the opposite.

    The fact that he accused your daughter of "owning" you seems a clear indication that he senses a real threat.  If he really were as impervious as he wants to be perceived, he wouldn't feel the need to respond to the threat.  Like the kid on the playground who has enough "strength" to give back sass for sass, it sounds like your husband is feeling attacked & striving to prove that he's the strongest. 

    The problem is that human beings, even six year olds, are clever enough to understand & respond to this tactic even though they can't articulate it.  This is what is happening when she throws back, "I don't care!" when she's sent to her room. She's playing right along with your husband by demonstrating that HE doesn't own HER, either.  She's refusing to have her feelings manipulated by him--which, to be fair, is exactly what he's attempting to do with his discipline ("If she doesn't feel sad by the consequences, then it has no effect on her").

    I think this is important to understand because it may change how or what you address with your husband.  He may feel even more defensive if he's told that his parenting techniques are adding to the problem.  He may appreciate, however, understanding that your daughter's misbehavior is not necessarily a reflection on how she feels about him, their relationship, or his role as a father.  That is to say, her misbehavior isn't a threat to him or his position.

    IOW, I agree with what you implied in your post: that everyone will be better off if your husband quits taking it personally when your daughter misbehaves.  You stated as much, yourself.

    I believe that it is appropriate to use these opportunities to teach your child that sass and rude words are unacceptable because they hurt people's feelings, not just because it will result in other people being rude back.

    In addition, there may be something else the two of you want to discuss in a very safe, nonthreatening environment (counseling, a weekend at home with the two of you, etc.).  Namely, his own feelings regarding being a dad.  Inadequacies, fears, left over hurts from his own upbringing.  Some adults feel like they "served their time" under their parents' rule, and they've waited patiently for their own chance to "be the adult" and receive that which they felt their parents demanded of them.  Turn about's fair play, right?

    One more thing:  Rather thinking of discipline as a technique to make someone sorry for their actions--which relies primarily on manipulation of the emotions--consider discipline as just the natural result of a particular (sometimes inadvisable) behavior and more or less devoid of emotion.   I tell the parents I work with to think of their discipline as kind of like gravity.  Gravity doesn't say, "You're so hard-headed!  I've told you not to jump off the roof twice already.  This time I'm REALLY going to make you regret it.  You won't try this again after I'm done with you."  Nope.  Gravity just pulls you straight to the earth every time.  Sometimes it takes many falls of the exact same kind before a jumper decides that it's not worth it.  Sometimes they never decide to stop jumping--they just use their understanding of gravity to invent jump-ropes, trampolines, hang gliders, parachutes, and airplanes.  Which, really, is pretty great.

     

    This was amazing to read and brought tears to my eyes.  Thank you a million times for taking your time and energy to give us such a thought out and wonderful response.  What you say makes so much sense and now I just have to figure out how to explain some of it to my awesome husband. Just amazing.  Thank you so very much.

  • imagesunkissed7804:
    This was amazing to read and brought tears to my eyes.  Thank you a million times for taking your time and energy to give us such a thought out and wonderful response.  What you say makes so much sense and now I just have to figure out how to explain some of it to my awesome husband. Just amazing.  Thank you so very much.

    Your response means a lot; thank you.  Let us know how it goes... these things can take time.

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