So, Hobby Lobby

[Deleted User]

Has this been discussed yet?  This letter was posted on my FB. I will try to find a linky to some news source or something like that.  Thoughts?  Opinions?  Musings?

 

A Letter from Hobby Lobby Stores CEO
By David Green, the founder and CEO of Hobby Lobby Stores, Inc.

When my family and I started our company 40 years ago, we were working out of a garage on a $600 bank loan, assembling miniature picture frames. Our first retail store wasn't much bigger than most people's living rooms, but we had faith that we would succeed if we lived and worked according to God's word. From there,Hobby Lobby has become one of the nation's largest arts and crafts retailers, with more than 500 locations in 41 states. Our children grew up into fine business leaders, and today we run Hobby Lobby together, as a family.

We're Christians, and we run our business on Christian principles. I've always said that the first two goals of our business are (1) to run our business in harmony with God's laws, and (2) to focus on people more than money. And that's what we've tried to do. We close early so our employees can see their families at night. We keep our stores closed on Sundays, one of the week's biggest shopping days, so that our workers and their families can enjoy a day of rest. We believe that it is by God's grace that Hobby Lobby has endured, and he has blessed us and our employees. We've not only added jobs in a weak economy, we've raised wages for the past four years in a row. Our full-time employees start at 80% above minimum wage.

But now, our government threatens to change all of that. A new government health care mandate says that our family business MUST provide what I believe are abortion-causing drugs as part of our health insurance. Being Christians, we don't pay for drugs that might cause abortions, which means that we don't cover emergency contraception, the morning-after pill or the week-after pill. We believe doing so might end a life after the moment of conception, something that is contrary to our most important beliefs. It goes against the Biblical principles on which we have run this company since day one. If we refuse to comply, we could face $1.3 million PER DAY in government fines.

Our government threatens to fine job creators in a bad economy. Our government threatens to fine a company that's raised wages four years running. Our government threatens to fine a family for running its business according to its beliefs. It's not right. I know people will say we ought to follow the rules; that it's the same for everybody. But that's not true. The government has exempted thousands of companies from this mandate, for reasons of convenience or cost. But it won't exempt them for reasons of religious belief.

So, Hobby Lobby and my family are forced to make a choice. With great reluctance, we filed a lawsuit today, represented by the Becket Fund for Religious Liberty, asking a federal court to stop this mandate before it hurts our business. We don't like to go running into court, but we no longer have a choice. We believe people are more important than the bottom line and that honoring God is more important than turning a profit.

My family has lived the American dream. We want to continue growing our company and providing great jobs for thousands of employees, but the government is going to make that much more difficult. The government is forcing us to choose between following our faith and following the law. I say that's a choice no American and no American business should have to make.
The government cannot force you to follow laws that go against your fundamental religious belief. They have exempted thousands of companies but will not except Christian organizations including the Catholic church.

Since you will not see this covered in any of the liberal media, pass this on to all your contacts.
Sincerely,
David Green, CEO and Founder of Hobby Lobby Stores, Inc.

[Deleted User]

We JUST got a HL here.  I didn't necessarily have a problem with them before though.  Why were they on your boycott list?  Did I miss something else?

missyishere

I saw this a few months back on one of my friends' fb. I cringe reading it again.

[Deleted User]

BostonKisses2:

Sucks for them I refuse to shop there and support them.

Before this, or because of this?

Littledeer84

The church is exempt, just not all catholic run organizations, like hospitals. That part seems misleading.

MrsSR

I agree with them. If the government wants to impose things on Christian organizations as well as the Catholic church, they better start funding them (I'm more thinking of the Catholic schools in terms of funding).

[Deleted User]

SouthSideDrea:

sofamonkey:

We JUST got a HL here.  I didn't necessarily have a problem with them before though.  Why were they on your boycott list?  Did I miss something else?

They donate money to political groups and causes I don't want my money going to. Now this.

Ah, OK.  It really wasn't an issue for us before recently.  Ya know, since they weren't here.  It would equate to me boycotting CFA.  It's so easy to not be tempted when it isn't in your state.  LOL (but not really)

LuckyDad

It makes me cry a little that people so ignorant about how contraception and science work can be so successful in business.

argonne

I have boycotted them for a while, now.  They're idiots.  They don't realize that they are a corporation, not a non-profit or a church, therefore they don't get to use their "God clause" in denying BC to their employees.

[Deleted User]

MrsSR:

I agree with them. If the government wants to impose things on Christian organizations as well as the Catholic church, they better start funding them (I'm more thinking of the Catholic schools in terms of funding).

Then maybe they should file & be a Christian organization.  They aren't though, they are a business.  

t.bird

they're not open on Sundays & they close early- needless to say they don't get my business anyway. der.

argonne

sofamonkey:

We JUST got a HL here.  I didn't necessarily have a problem with them before though.  Why were they on your boycott list?  Did I miss something else?

Because the owners are patriarchal jerks who try to force their "Christian" beliefs on their employees.  Most of those "Christian" beliefs revolve around denying women the right to birth control, etc.

PrincessFiona9

t.bird:

they're not open on Sundays & they close early- needless to say they don't get my business anyway. der.

Unrelated, but I'm cracking up at your sig pic. The picture is just perfect for the signs.

LuckyDad

gwinnygirl:

LuckyDad:

It makes me cry a little that people so ignorant about how contraception and science work can be so successful in business.

This is the part that stuck with me as well. Not only are they woefully (or perhaps willfully) uninformed about contraceptives, they are perpetuating that misinformation.

The more I think about it, the dumber it is. BC is just a stupid place to draw your line in the sand in the culture war, if for no other reason than the vast majority of women (and by extension, straight men) use some form in their lifetime.

On top of that, for example, BC that prevents ovulation... that's abortion???

What if the Male Pill ever comes out? Is that A-OK?

I also think a lot of people are unaware just how few fertilized eggs are actually viable.

I seriously need to start making more money so I can start writing fat checks to Planned Parenthood.

LuckyDad

t.bird:

they're not open on Sundays & they close early- needless to say they don't get my business anyway. der.

Costco closes early and is never open on major holidays and I still love them with all my heart.

[Deleted User]

Pfft:

Oh look! More Christians ruining Christianity.

Yeah, DH & I were just discussing this.  Specifically, keep the Christ in Christmas & the whole WWJD.  I'm preeeety sure Jesus wouldn't do a lot of what people are promoting him for. 

nikip6454

I am so annoyed I can't form a decent thought.

[Deleted User]

LuckyDad:

t.bird:

they're not open on Sundays & they close early- needless to say they don't get my business anyway. der.

Costco closes early and is never open on major holidays and I still love them with all my heart.

Yes, but they have hot dogs for $1.50.  That INCLUDES the soda!!

argonne

SouthSideDrea:

sofamonkey:

We JUST got a HL here.  I didn't necessarily have a problem with them before though.  Why were they on your boycott list?  Did I miss something else?

They donate money to political groups and causes I don't want my money going to. Now this.

This, too.  Same with Chik-fil-a.

When will these idiots realize that they are not being persecuted because they are Christians.  If anything, they are the ones persecuting others with their beliefs.

It's not like making gay marriage legal means you will be forced to gay marry.  It's not like making abortion legal means you will be forced to have an abortion.  It's not like offering insurance that covers certain types of BC to your employees means you have to take that BC.

WHEN WILL THEY REALIZE THAT THEIR RIGHTS AREN'T BEING ENCROACHED UPON, BUT THEY ARE CRAPPING ON EVERYONE ELSES' RIGHTS?!

Can you tell I'm sick of this BS?

ridesbuttons

You know what kind of got me in this post?  That they needed a bank loan for $600.

As for the rest of it...there is no reasoning with the unreasonable.

Littledeer84

LuckyDad:

gwinnygirl:

LuckyDad:

It makes me cry a little that people so ignorant about how contraception and science work can be so successful in business.

This is the part that stuck with me as well. Not only are they woefully (or perhaps willfully) uninformed about contraceptives, they are perpetuating that misinformation.

The more I think about it, the dumber it is. BC is just a stupid place to draw your line in the sand in the culture war, if for no other reason than the vast majority of women (and by extension, straight men) use some form in their lifetime.

On top of that, for example, BC that prevents ovulation... that's abortion???

What if the Male Pill ever comes out? Is that A-OK?

I also think a lot of people are unaware just how few fertilized eggs are actually viable.

I seriously need to start making more money so I can start writing fat checks to Planned Parenthood.

They say that bc that stops ovulation is not 100...meaning a woman may still ovulate and concieve. But another side effect of hormonal bc is thinning of the uterus lining, making successful implantation more difficult. Therefore in theory a fertilized egg is lost during the womans period, which to them, is an abortion.
Eta. There should be a percent sign there. On mobile which hates symbols.

argonne

MrsSR:

I agree with them. If the government wants to impose things on Christian organizations as well as the Catholic church, they better start funding them (I'm more thinking of the Catholic schools in terms of funding).

They are not a Christian organization, though.  They are a corporation so they are not exempt.

LuckyDad

sofamonkey:

LuckyDad:

t.bird:

they're not open on Sundays & they close early- needless to say they don't get my business anyway. der.

Costco closes early and is never open on major holidays and I still love them with all my heart.

Yes, but they have hot dogs for $1.50.  That INCLUDES the soda!!

They used to be $0.99 :P

Also, they don't do good things to my tummy. But I do lurve the pizza.

LuckyDad

Littledeer84:

They say that bc that stops ovulation is not 100...meaning a woman may still ovulate and concieve. But another side effect of hormonal bc is thinning of the uterus lining, making successful implantation more difficult. Therefore in theory a fertilized egg is lost during the womans period, which to them, is an abortion.

Just reading that makes me slightly dumber.

kj07

I didn't read all the responses so sorry if this is a repeat.

Snopes has a decent summary of the events.  A federal judge denied their lawsuit, ruling that individual family members have religious rights, but that as a secular, for-profit enterprise, the company does not have the right to a religious exemption.  They lost their appeal to the Supreme Court last month, and have now announced that they will continue to defy the law and refuse to provide coverage to their employees for contraception that they consider 'abortion inducing.'

I say, tools.

[Deleted User]

LuckyDad:

sofamonkey:

LuckyDad:

t.bird:

they're not open on Sundays & they close early- needless to say they don't get my business anyway. der.

Costco closes early and is never open on major holidays and I still love them with all my heart.

Yes, but they have hot dogs for $1.50.  That INCLUDES the soda!!

They used to be $0.99 :P

Also, they don't do good things to my tummy. But I do lurve the pizza.

Yeah, I remember when gas used to be less than a dollar per gallon too.  ::sings memories:: 

The pizza.  Yum.  I've been tempted to buy a whole one there.  But then I knew I'd just eat it all.  

[Deleted User]

kj07:

I didn't read all the responses so sorry if this is a repeat.

Snopes has a decent summary of the events.  A federal judge denied their lawsuit, ruling that individual family members have religious rights, but that as a secular, for-profit enterprise, the company does not have the right to a religious exemption.  They lost their appeal to the Supreme Court last month, and have now announced that they will continue to defy the law and refuse to provide coverage to their employees for contraception that they consider 'abortion inducing.'

I say, tools.

Ah!  Thanks for the update kj.  Yeah, I don't get it.  I think your tools summary is about right!

argonne

LuckyDad:

gwinnygirl:

LuckyDad:

It makes me cry a little that people so ignorant about how contraception and science work can be so successful in business.

This is the part that stuck with me as well. Not only are they woefully (or perhaps willfully) uninformed about contraceptives, they are perpetuating that misinformation.

The more I think about it, the dumber it is. BC is just a stupid place to draw your line in the sand in the culture war, if for no other reason than the vast majority of women (and by extension, straight men) use some form in their lifetime.

On top of that, for example, BC that prevents ovulation... that's abortion???

What if the Male Pill ever comes out? Is that A-OK?

I also think a lot of people are unaware just how few fertilized eggs are actually viable.

I seriously need to start making more money so I can start writing fat checks to Planned Parenthood.

Yes, it would be A-OK because if a man wants to do something to control his life, that's fine.  These people really don't care about BC, so much as they care about making sure women don't have the same rights as men.  That's why they're willfully ignorant of the actual science involved with the morning after pill.

t.bird

LuckyDad:

sofamonkey:

LuckyDad:

t.bird:

they're not open on Sundays & they close early- needless to say they don't get my business anyway. der.

Costco closes early and is never open on major holidays and I still love them with all my heart.

Yes, but they have hot dogs for $1.50.  That INCLUDES the soda!!

They used to be $0.99 :P

Also, they don't do good things to my tummy. But I do lurve the pizza.

psha. i take my shop in bulk needs to BJ's. they have pizza hut- ftw. 

Littledeer84

LuckyDad:

Littledeer84:

They say that bc that stops ovulation is not 100...meaning a woman may still ovulate and concieve. But another side effect of hormonal bc is thinning of the uterus lining, making successful implantation more difficult. Therefore in theory a fertilized egg is lost during the womans period, which to them, is an abortion.

Just reading that makes me slightly dumber.

Ha, sorry about that.
I listen to some catholic talk radio, so I have heard their argument a lot.

kj07

MrsSR:

I agree with them. If the government wants to impose things on Christian organizations as well as the Catholic church, they better start funding them (I'm more thinking of the Catholic schools in terms of funding).

It isn't a Christian organization, it is a secular, for-profit company.  As such, the owning family is not allowed to force their religious beliefs on employees of their secular, for-profit company.

snowybride08

I have no idea where one is around here, but I definitely wouldn't shop there if I did. Yikes.

RondackHiker

I read an article on a feminst blog once, talking about the 'abortion causing drug' thing. She was raised ultra-conservative.

She calculated how many eggs a woman on birth control would release, and how many a woman not on birth control. Then she calculated how many of those would be fertilized, and how many would not survive.

A woman having unprotected sex actually has more 'lost fertilized eggs' in her lifetime than a woman on birth control that whole time.  

footnotegirl

MrsSR:

I agree with them. If the government wants to impose things on Christian organizations as well as the Catholic church, they better start funding them (I'm more thinking of the Catholic schools in terms of funding).

1) A for-profit business is not a 'christian organization'. It's a for-profit business, which gets all sorts of benefits and has all sorts of responsibilities to, the government. 

2) There is NOT ONE THING in the Bible about birth control being good, evil, or indifferent. Note: Birth control did exist back then (the Egyptians and Romans all had tons of ways of preventing conception and aborting, look up silphium) so if God was against it enough to cause all this cafuffle, you'd think it woulda been mentioned...

3) You want Catholic schools funded by the government. Fine. But equal funding must also go to Muslim Madrassahs, buddhist schools, wiccan schools, satanist schools, etc. etc. etc. 

4) The health mandate does not require that the the company itself pay for birth control, plan b, etc. It requires that insurance companies cover it, and that businesses provide insurance to their employees. I don't see Hobby Lobby freaking out about unmarried male employees getting Viagra covered. 

5)  Plan B, aka the morning after pill, is not an abortifacient, and saying so when you have surely been provided evidence to the contrary is a lie, which is ACTUALLY in the Bible as something you shouldn't do.

argonne

footnotegirl:

MrsSR:

I agree with them. If the government wants to impose things on Christian organizations as well as the Catholic church, they better start funding them (I'm more thinking of the Catholic schools in terms of funding).

1) A for-profit business is not a 'christian organization'. It's a for-profit business, which gets all sorts of benefits and has all sorts of responsibilities to, the government. 

2) There is NOT ONE THING in the Bible about birth control being good, evil, or indifferent. Note: Birth control did exist back then (the Egyptians and Romans all had tons of ways of preventing conception and aborting, look up silphium) so if God was against it enough to cause all this cafuffle, you'd think it woulda been mentioned...

3) You want Catholic schools funded by the government. Fine. But equal funding must also go to Muslim Madrassahs, buddhist schools, wiccan schools, satanist schools, etc. etc. etc. 

4) The health mandate does not require that the the company itself pay for birth control, plan b, etc. It requires that insurance companies cover it, and that businesses provide insurance to their employees. I don't see Hobby Lobby freaking out about unmarried male employees getting Viagra covered. 

5)  Plan B, aka the morning after pill, is not an abortifacient, and saying so when you have surely been provided evidence to the contrary is a lie, which is ACTUALLY in the Bible as something you shouldn't do.

RondackHiker

While looking for the other blog I mentioned, I found this.

 I wonder if Hobby Lobby has read this:

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/unreasonablefaith/2009/04/the-bible-encourages-abortion/ 

 I really, really hate when Christians like this give us all a bad name. Really, it's possible to believe in God, and, you know, not be a total douche. 

argonne

argonne:

footnotegirl:

MrsSR:

I agree with them. If the government wants to impose things on Christian organizations as well as the Catholic church, they better start funding them (I'm more thinking of the Catholic schools in terms of funding).

1) A for-profit business is not a 'christian organization'. It's a for-profit business, which gets all sorts of benefits and has all sorts of responsibilities to, the government. 

2) There is NOT ONE THING in the Bible about birth control being good, evil, or indifferent. Note: Birth control did exist back then (the Egyptians and Romans all had tons of ways of preventing conception and aborting, look up silphium) so if God was against it enough to cause all this cafuffle, you'd think it woulda been mentioned...

3) You want Catholic schools funded by the government. Fine. But equal funding must also go to Muslim Madrassahs, buddhist schools, wiccan schools, satanist schools, etc. etc. etc. 

4) The health mandate does not require that the the company itself pay for birth control, plan b, etc. It requires that insurance companies cover it, and that businesses provide insurance to their employees. I don't see Hobby Lobby freaking out about unmarried male employees getting Viagra covered. 

5)  Plan B, aka the morning after pill, is not an abortifacient, and saying so when you have surely been provided evidence to the contrary is a lie, which is ACTUALLY in the Bible as something you shouldn't do.

Also, there's nothing in the bible about abortion either.  I know a lot of thumpers will go to the "Thou Shalt not Kill", but applying that to abortion is taking it out of context.  There was actually a really good documentary on the history of the ten commandments and how they came about within the context of that timeframe.  I think a lot of so-called Christians would be surprised.

DreadLoc

footnotegirl:

MrsSR:

I agree with them. If the government wants to impose things on Christian organizations as well as the Catholic church, they better start funding them (I'm more thinking of the Catholic schools in terms of funding).

1) A for-profit business is not a 'christian organization'. It's a for-profit business, which gets all sorts of benefits and has all sorts of responsibilities to, the government. 

2) There is NOT ONE THING in the Bible about birth control being good, evil, or indifferent. Note: Birth control did exist back then (the Egyptians and Romans all had tons of ways of preventing conception and aborting, look up silphium) so if God was against it enough to cause all this cafuffle, you'd think it woulda been mentioned...

3) You want Catholic schools funded by the government. Fine. But equal funding must also go to Muslim Madrassahs, buddhist schools, wiccan schools, satanist schools, etc. etc. etc. 

4) The health mandate does not require that the the company itself pay for birth control, plan b, etc. It requires that insurance companies cover it, and that businesses provide insurance to their employees. I don't see Hobby Lobby freaking out about unmarried male employees getting Viagra covered. 

5)  Plan B, aka the morning after pill, is not an abortifacient, and saying so when you have surely been provided evidence to the contrary is a lie, which is ACTUALLY in the Bible as something you shouldn't do.

BOOM.

argonne

RondackHiker:

While looking for the other blog I mentioned, I found this.

 I wonder if Hobby Lobby has read this:

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/unreasonablefaith/2009/04/the-bible-encourages-abortion/ 

 I really, really hate when Christians like this give us all a bad name. Really, it's possible to believe in God, and, you know, not be a total douche. 

This, but at the end of the day, it's not really about abortion.  It's about controlling women.  That's what this whole patriarchal, dominionist movement is about...men being manly men and women staying home, popping our babies and never disagreeing with their husbands.

missyishere

In an article recently published on Slate said "... in the United States, the report describes a "range of laws [that] limit the role of atheists in regards to public duties, or else entangle the government with religion to the degree that being religious is equated with being an American, and vice versa." Seven statesArkansas, Maryland, Mississippi, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee, and Texashave constitutional provisions banning atheists from holding public office."

Does anyone know the extent of these laws? Because wow...

bunny731

JoAnn's is my 'go to' craft place. Perhaps its in the name....Is JoAnn really not going to let JoAnn have access to bc insurance?

Kidding aside... Hobby Lobby and Chick-Fil-a do not have anything better than anyone else, there is plenty of competition around here for salty chicken and cheap picture frames. They may profess their beliefs and that is wonderful, golf clap for them. I on the other hand do not agree and will gladly find salty chicken and cheap picture frames elsewhere.