S/O NFP

ssimon621

Okay, I am not Catholic so I am not trying to offend anyone with this post, but I am genuinely interested.

I read Kristin's link about NFP and basically it states that it is morally wrong for a married couple to not only not use hormonal BCP, but they can't use condoms either?  I've always heard so much backlash about using BCP, even in the Baptist church that I grew up in, but I've never heard of anyone telling people it is a sin to use condoms.

It also states that a Catholic couple is wrong for using NFP for avoiding a pregnancy for reasons other than finances, health or some other very important reason.

If this is the true belief why are so many people against BCP but not boycotting condom companies?  

Lastly, if this is the belief and couples shouldn't be avoiding sex during fertile periods if they don't have a legitimate reason, why aren't their more people with more kids???? 

I guess my major gripe is that I really hate when people judge one person's sin or moral short coming so much more than their own or someone else's. I see so many people being singled out for having a child outside of marriage or choosing an alternative lifestyle, but no one is judging the family who has one kid just because they don't want another one and use NFP, BCP, or condoms to prevent it from happening.

Here is Kristin's link from earlier:

https://www.priestsforlife.org/articles/nfpdifferences.html 

 

Amberrrr

...I haven't read it yet but I think its terribly wrong to judge a couple that enjoys a sexually active lifestyle while trying to avoid having 18 kids.
Eh?
I'll read it now
Okay... I get it now. Isn't there a chance that NFP could be insecure though?
Afh, I haven't been paying attention to the debates lately. I'm sorry, ignore me.

Jen0204

I think the focus is more on the woman's side of things (so BCP instead of condoms) because only women's actions have a direct impact on the fetus. From what I understand of the Hobby Lobby thing, the issue isn't with BCP, but with the morning after pill, and since they believe that life starts at conception the morning after pill is a form of abortion. I don't agree with that line of thinking and I'm pro-choice, but that's why I think the focus is more on our end of things. 

I also think that this is probably one of the philosophies of the Church that many people would agree is outdated (only TTA for financial reasons). It's impractical to expect everyone to be like the Duggers, especially since if the majority of Catholics followed that philosophy our overpopulation problem would be catostrophic. 

jja0812

I think you will find that Catholics, just like anyone else, will vary widely in how strictly they follow the teachings of their religion. For what it's worth, I know people who call themselves Catholic because their families have always been Catholic, even though they have only been to Mass a handful of times in their own lives. I also know a Catholic family [with TEN kids by the way] who attends Mass several times a week. I would venture to guess that most fall somewhere in between, which is why you don't have, as you said, more people having a ton of kids.

Also, I'd like to point out that the issue with hormonal birth control isn't just a Catholic one. Ever wonder why Mormon families have so many children? I even know Baptists who are opposed to the birth control pill. Maybe the reasons are not exactly the same between them all, but it's a moral and/or religious issue all the same.

I hate typing a long response on my iPod. I can't remember everything you brought up. I can say I don't think anyone is judging YOU if you choose to take the pill. I have my reasons for not using hormonal BC and I don't judge anyone who does. It's a personal choice, one that has come about by a lot of contemplation AND communication with my husband.

I will now post this so I can see how much of what I wrote is actually relevant to your question...

ETA I should mention that I am not Catholic, so I am only speaking with a limited knowledge on that topic, and I hope I haven't stepped on any toes.

Also I completely forgot your question about condoms, which I'm not sure i understand? No one is currently up in arms about condoms because no one is forcing employers to buy them for their employees. If that is what you are referring to?

ssimon621

Jessicameron:

I think you will find that Catholics, just like anyone else, will vary widely in how strictly they follow the teachings of their religion. For what it's worth, I know people who call themselves Catholic because their families have always been Catholic, even though they have only been to Mass a handful of times in their own lives. I also know a Catholic family [with TEN kids by the way] who attends Mass several times a week. I would venture to guess that most fall somewhere in between, which is why you don't have, as you said, more people having a ton of kids. Also, I'd like to point out that the issue with hormonal birth control isn't just a Catholic one. Ever wonder why Mormon families have so many children? I even know Baptists who are opposed to the birth control pill. Maybe the reasons are not exactly the same between them all, but it's a moral and/or religious issue all the same. I hate typing a long response on my iPod. I can't remember everything you brought up. I can say I don't think anyone is judging YOU if you choose to take the pill. I have my reasons for not using hormonal BC and I don't judge anyone who does. It's a personal choice, one that has come about by a lot of contemplation AND communication with my husband. I will now post this so I can see how much of what I wrote is actually relevant to your question...

I agree the use of BCP is frowned upon within various religions, including mine, which is Baptist.  I guess my confusion is people being so against BCP, but not making a big deal about condoms.  But like you said much of it is outdated and some take things more literal than others.

 

ChicagoWeded2007

Hi,

I am a practicing Catholic and I can answer your questions, but I do choose to use birth control, even though the church says it is wrong.

All forms of birth control are wrong, according to the church, except for NFP.  That includes condoms.  Anything artificial that you use to prevent conception is wrong.  The reason is that you are taking it into your own hands and out of God's hands.  Whether or not you have a baby is supposed to be God's choice, not yours.  This is the church's position, NOT mine obviously, or I wouldn't be on BCP.

 And yes, families that follow this DO have a lot of kids.  I grew up going to a Catholic school. I was one of 6 and only a few of the families had less than 3-4 kids.  Most of my friends were in families of 4 or more. 

I don't understand your question about boycotting condom companies.  Why would Catholics do that?   Just because they are not supposed to use them, we can't stop other people from using them.  It's not the same as abortion, since condoms do not end a life that is already conceived.

I am just the messenger here. 

ETA: I think there might be more objection to BCP since people think it may cause a baby that is conceived to not implant, thereby causing an abortion.  Not sure if that's really true or not. 

jja0812

Yeah I forgot that you had already mentioned Baptists, sorry! I am also Baptist, and you and I both know there is no universal "standard" like there is in the Catholic Church. My own church does not teach against birth control, but I know there are Baptist churches in my area that do!

runrinserepeat

Yeah, I was taught condoms aren't "Catholic". We were taught in marriage prep that it would be selfish for us to wait more than three months after getting married to start TTC.

I do happen to agree with these things. I try to practice my faith, but it's hard. We waited two years to have a baby. Though it was largely financial, I also felt rather selfish doing it.

But I can say rather definitively I have enough to worry about in my own life, I don't need to go around judging others for not living according to the rules I try to follow. These guidelines help me feel like I have a closer relationship with my God. If you have a different belief set, that's great. Who am I to say its wrong?

Sorry, maybe not completely relevant. I just don't understand judgment for these types of things. As long as the children you have are loved, fed, clothed, and warm, that's all I really care about.

jju_stb_jju

We are catholic and yes the church does only teach about nfp, everything else is a big no. but for me I personally know done people, like mt close friend who is pentecostal, and at their church they were told by the pastor that the act of sex should solely be to produce kids, they were told not to wait to have kids as well. I think that's crazy cause the church and the priests/pastors are not the ones who arw taking care of the kids, not the ones raising them, and not doing anything so they shouldn't have any say in anything. We know how many kids we want and know how much of a gap we want, we used nfp once we got married, we were taught how to at our marriage prep classes, and didn't get pregnant till we decided to, which was 3 years later and arw now using nfp again cause we want to wait at least 4 years for our next one.

MollySm

kleMcK:

Yeah, I was taught condoms aren't "Catholic". We were taught in marriage prep that it would be selfish for us to wait more than three months after getting married to start TTC. I do happen to agree with these things. I try to practice my faith, but it's hard. We waited two years to have a baby. Though it was largely financial, I also felt rather selfish doing it. But I can say rather definitively I have enough to worry about in my own life, I don't need to go around judging others for not living according to the rules I try to follow. These guidelines help me feel like I have a closer relationship with my God. If you have a different belief set, that's great. Who am I to say its wrong? Sorry, maybe not completely relevant. I just don't understand judgment for these types of things. As long as the children you have are loved, fed, clothed, and warm, that's all I really care about.

Selfish because you were trying to get nice things instead of having children?  Does that 3 month rule count for people who actually can't care for kids(not enough money for food, rent, etc.)?  Do you think you'll feel the same way if you guys decided to not have more kids after a certain number?  Does overpopulation fit into any of this?  Are you annoyed at me for asking so many questions today?  Sorry you are getting all of them! I find this stuff fascinating! 

runrinserepeat

MollySm:

kleMcK:

Yeah, I was taught condoms aren't "Catholic". We were taught in marriage prep that it would be selfish for us to wait more than three months after getting married to start TTC. I do happen to agree with these things. I try to practice my faith, but it's hard. We waited two years to have a baby. Though it was largely financial, I also felt rather selfish doing it. But I can say rather definitively I have enough to worry about in my own life, I don't need to go around judging others for not living according to the rules I try to follow. These guidelines help me feel like I have a closer relationship with my God. If you have a different belief set, that's great. Who am I to say its wrong? Sorry, maybe not completely relevant. I just don't understand judgment for these types of things. As long as the children you have are loved, fed, clothed, and warm, that's all I really care about.

Selfish because you were trying to get nice things instead of having children?  Does that 3 month rule count for people who actually can't care for kids(not enough money for food, rent, etc.)?  Do you think you'll feel the same way if you guys decided to not have more kids after a certain number?  Does overpopulation fit into any of this?  Are you annoyed at me for asking so many questions today?  Sorry you are getting all of them! I find this stuff fascinating! 

i don't mind your questions, I just hope I don't sound crazy as I try to answer them. Sorry it got so long, I tried to be brief.

The three months rule assumed we could afford children. If you can't afford rent and food, I don't think it's a good idea to add another mouth to feed. That said, I think it's a tough topic, when you can afford children. My parents had five kids in four years while my dad worked his way through grad school on something like $17k stipend and my mom took care of us. By most standards, they could not afford to have so many children, but we always had food, a house, hand me down toys, health insurance (one thing my mom refused to compromise on), and love. 

When I graduated college, started my first job, and shacked up with my then-boyfriend-now-husband, we were way better off than my parents had been for the first five years of their marriage, at least. But it was important to us that we have a house instead of a one bedroom apartment, and I wanted to make sure we had enough in savings to weather 12 weeks of unpaid maternity leave. Did we need those things? We also have the luxury of allowing DH to SAH. Again, not a necessity, but it's a very nice perk that we wouldn't have been able to afford two years ago.

Having more kids is tricky. I do think I'll feel selfish if we decide not to have a fleet of children, but I've already changed my number from four or five to two. I think that there may be mitigating circumstances, as I'm the sole provider and pregnancy certainly gets in the way of me doing that well. I would like to consider adoption down the road, if DH is also interested in that. Perhaps that would also help the overpopulation problem. I really have no answer for that, I have no clue. 

runrinserepeat

Also, no offense Molly or anyone else, but I'm going to step away from this topic now. I'm a little bored of seeing/listening to myself talk this much. I swear I'm not this long winded IRL. 

ssimon621

Kle - Thanks so much for your input.  I love learning new things, and a lot of stuff boggles my mind and I don't really have people IRL to answer these sorts of questions.  I know a lot of Catholics, but most of them don't really follow the principles of the religion or know many of the teachings that you guys have mentioned on here.

I went to a Catholic college and had to take a few religion courses and most of them were based on Catholicism.  I asked my good friend lots of questions about this because Catholic Studies was his minor and he had an Uncle who was a priest.  I learned so much in those classes, but I still have lots of questions.  Maybe I will message my old buddy on Facebook...