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February 2012 Moms
NatesLady1309
member
on the subject of Hobby Lobby
NatesLady1309
member
for mobile users- title is "on the subject of Hobby Lobby"
https://www.dennyburk.com/religious-liberty-dies-at-hobby-lobby/
I was reading this article that someone had posted to FB. The following sentence kind of confused me.- "However, the Green family?s religious convictions prohibit them from providing or paying for the abortion-inducing drugs, the ?morning after? and ?week after? pills, which would violate their most deeply held religious belief that life begins at conception."
It refers to these pills as abortion-inducing drugs. Is this true? I thought they were more like extra-strong BCPs. I did not think that they were abortion-inducing. If they are, how is it that they are legal in all 50 states (I am assuming that they are, I don't know for sure)? I thought there were many states in which abortion at any stage is illegal (also assuming). Correct me if I'm wrong about either of those last 2 sentences. Thoughts?
ETA- Yes, this article is from a biased website. Regardless, the quote is the part I am focusing on.
This discussion has been closed.
Re: on the subject of Hobby Lobby
This is what I figured, about it potentially preventing implantation after the egg and sperm have met. So why is it that HL is OK with providing BCPs but not the morning after or week after pills? As you said, I have also read/heard that ALL BCPs could potentially prevent it from implanting. And yet they say they are OK with BCPs, but not these two things. I think they might have a better case if they were consistent.
Roe v. Wade made abortion legal in every state, as far as I understand.
Yes, those pills help prevent implantation. BCPs prevent ovulation. They may be standing on the line that BCPs prevent fertilization (i.e. what they see as the start of life) while the other pills are actually preventing the implantation after there is "conception". However, I have also heard (but not confirmed with any research), that a large dose of BCP can also do the same thing as some of the morning after pills and week after pills.
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Um this.
***typing one-handed as I pump, bear with me here***
So here's the thing. I'm not at all; sure if this is the religious stand or if it's just what I think, but birth control mainly functions by preventing ovulation. Ths isn't really abortion, but prevention. One of the "back-up" measures is thinning the uterine lining, making implantation if an egg does happen to pop and meet up with a sperm difficult. But again, this isn't the main mechanism of hormonal birth control pills that are taken daily.
The day after and week after pills don't do the same thing. Their main mechanism is to thin out the lining a lot, since it's probably already too late to prevent an egg from popping. So its a lot of hormones to thin the lining so that if there IS an embryo, it's got nowhere to go. If you do believe that life begins at conception, I suppose this could be considered an abortion, though I tend to think that's a bit of a stretch.
Good Lord, this is getting hard. Tangent time, I think it's weird that they're focusing on the "abortion pills" when regular old birth control pills also violate Catholic teaching. No, it's not an abortion, but it prevents life that God may have intended. In everything I've learned from my Church on the subject, one is not worse than the other. One is certainly much more prevalent, though, and they're choosing to focus on the much less commonly used one. Huh.
Also, did you know that the guy who invented the birth control pill was Catholic, and that he based it on the principles of NFP? He figured he would just use artficial hormones to extend the infertile period and minimize the fertile window. To hear his side of things, he was very baffled when the Catholic Church came out against it. I always found that interesting. You should read more about it. It's really fascinating. I wonder if anyone is still reading at this point. Jesus, it took my five tries to write the word, "point" just now. Come on, right hand, leftie is busy. Get your *** together.
I should probably just get a hands free bra. Well, a legit hands free bra, instead of a mutiolated sports bra, because, to be frank, that's just a pain in the asss. Speaking of which, where didf the expression, "to be frank" come from? Was there a really blunt guy named Frank once upon a time? Or is there some meaning that I'm missing?
To get back to your main point, if Hobby Lobby doesn'y want to provide abortion pills, I couldn't care less, since I don't work for them. If I did, I would either quit or simply evaluate my need for the day/week after pill, and how much it would cost OOP. Really though, I have yet to hear from an outraged hobby lobby employee on the subject. Most of my newsfeed these days is about Hostess employees, as it turn out. I'm sure those people would be very open to paying out of pocket for their abortion pills, as long as they had a job, period.
Whew. NatesLady - with all the talk of NFP and PNP lately, care to weigh in on you family planning method of choice? I read Taking Charge of Your Fertility a while ago, and it changed my life, not even kidding. I'm hoping to get to an NFP refresher course soon, but I'm not too worried. Anyone still with me here? Because for good measure I'd like to add:
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Okay, my hand hurts and I've got a meeting in 14 minutes. Thanks for letting me share.
LOL.
You crack me up. How many WPM do you type?
Substantially less with only one hand. You'd think it would be at about 50%, but apparently two hards are much better than one.
Seriously, though, I have no idea. All my customers tell me I type really quickly (they can hear the keyboard on the phone), and they're all computer people, so.....
Yeah. I blame the coffee. It makes me twitchy.
ETA: LOL, two HANDS are better than one. I suppose two hards might be better than one, too, but I think I'll leave that to the imagination.
My Colton...Growing up so fast!
And Coralee, his baby sister...On the way!
It has something to do with their health insurance for employees and not wanting to cover the cost of BCP because it is not in line with their (owners of the company)religious beliefs.
Just out of curiosity, does insurance cover the morning after pill? I realize you might not know the answer....just throwing it out there.
Ohhhh. What color???
This was my favorite part of the whole post.
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I don't know if what I'm about to say is exactly true, but it is my impression after 9 years of Catholic school and going through Catholic marriage prep. I should preface this by saying that I don't judge people who use hormonal birth control (I was on HBC for years - trust me, no judgment), these are just the teachings as I understand them. Be gentle.
When you practice NFP, you're always open to the idea that there could be a mistake. As many people have pointed out, it's VERY possible to get KU while practicing NFP, so, for example, when DH and I use it to TTA, we're still open to the idea of God intervening and a child coming out of the situation. As sooner pointed out, it's very passive agressive. I honestly believe right now that if God wants us to have our second child sooner rather than later, we will. So if I were to get KU again, even though we consider ourselves TTA, I'd still be very happy about it.
With hormonal birth control pills, couples are generally very closed off to the idea of creating a child, and would very possibly have some negative emotions surrounding the situation if that were to happen. At that point, sex isn't about this beautiful thing that God gave us to consecrate a marriage and create life, it's more about good feelings with few consequences.
Hope that makes sense, but again, I'm trying to parrot back something I learned years ago, so it's very possible that I'm missing the point. If anyone want to jump in here and tidy up my explanation, please do.
Geez, that was almost as long as the last one! Sorry!
Found this. Explains why I thought it was illegal in some states. Because it's essentially not available in some states. Some allow it farther along in a pregnancy than others though, right?
"But note that although abortion is legal in every state, it is not necessarily available in every state. In Mississippi, for example, there is only one abortion clinic that services the entire state, and it only performs abortions up to 16 weeks. One strategy used by the anti-abortion movement involves driving abortion clinics out of business, which arguably serves the same function as a state-level ban."
I got curious and searched this. This seemed like a decent explanation: https://www.priestsforlife.org/articles/nfpdifferences.html
Here is one of the parts of one of the answers: NFP does not separate sex from responsibility. The act of intercourse has a twofold meaning: sharing of love and giving of life. Married persons who perform this act must accept both sides of the coin. While not every marital act will result in a child, it must nevertheless be open to the possibility of life. The act will be "open" to life as long as the spouses do nothing to "close" it. Here's the difference between artificial birth control and NFP. In the first case, one does something (takes a pill, uses a condom, etc.) to deliberately "close" the life-giving power of sexual intercourse. In NFP, however, no such step is taken. The spouses do not act against their fertility. They do not reject the link between the two meanings of sex (love and life).
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