- Pregnancy
- Baby & Toddler
- Parents
- Getting Pregnant
- Baby Names
- Product Reviews
-
Registry
- Community
-
More
Want a personalized experience?
Download the free app
February 2012 Moms
runrinserepeat
member
sooner, just curious
runrinserepeat
member
I didn't want to bog down the POAS thread, but I'm just curious at what effectiveness rate birth control is no longer birth control (IYO)? The only reason I ask is because I categorically disagree with PNP = TTC.
No snark intended, just curious at what point/failure rate you consider BC to be a cherade. DH and I practice FAM/PNP. We consider ourselves TTA right now.
Pass the sheet cake.
This discussion has been closed.
Re: sooner, just curious
I'm in the same situation and my stomach sank a little when I read sooner's post!
Personally I consider PNP combined with FAM to be a form of BC - or even just FAM - but if you're having sex in the fertile window and just using PNP as your form of BC that doesn't see very safe to me if you really don't want to get pregnant.
ETA - I know nothing at all about the statistics of the effectiveness of PNP. For me personally I wouldn't be willing to take the risk of using that as our only form of TTA.
My head is spinning at the acronyms in this post. I keep reading "pack n play" and "FAMily". I'm completely lost on TTA.
I usually rock the acronyms, but these are CTHOOM. (confusing the heck out of me!)
212 Facebook Admin.
The stats I've seen put PNP at about 27% failure (real world, vs 4% for perfect use). Just having sex has about an 80% failure rate of avoiding pregnancy, so I guess, IMO, PNP is trying to avoid pregnancy, just not the most effective method.
FWIW, DH and I (or at the very least, I) subscribe to the very Catholic notion that we should always be open to children. If I did happen to find myself pregnant, I'd be very happy, even though we're not planning on it for another few months. I can't speak for DH, but I imagine he feels pretty much the same way I do. I understand this isn't the case for everyone.
I was a little bothered by it as well. DH and I aren't TTC yet, but we also are totally okay if it happens. I don't consider pulling out the same as TTC. When we were TTC we certainly weren't pulling out. I'm no doctor but I am pretty sure that's not a great way to TTC.
We used pulling out for about 3.5 years (we were fine if we got pregnant, we just weren't completely committed to trying yet). Then when we were ready it still took us 2.5 years before we got a BFP.
Hey, no worries. NFP is actually MORE effective than FAM, which I always find interesting.
We practice FAM and am also Catholic. We'd be fine if we got pregnant, just of course would like a bigger home and a few other things before #2 comes along. TCOYF was also a great book for this- both when trying to get pregnant and trying to avoid.
BFP 3.8.16 EDD 11.20.16
Me too, Lancy. The bump dictionary defines PNP as pack n play. Don't know what specific words it is standing for in this context. TTA is Trying To Avoid.
Yeah, I'm still lost on the acronyms...
NFP - Natural Family Planning
PNP - Pull and Pray
TTA - Trying to Avoid
FAM - ???????
Edited for overlapping posts!
Sorry, apparently I overwrote my post about NFP vs. FAM.
FAM is the fertility awareness method. It is very similar to NFP (what the Catholic church advocates), except during the fertile window you can use whatever forms of BC you want (such as condoms). With NFP, you're taught to abstain during that time.
This is also why NFP is more effective. Abstinence has a 0% failure rate. Condoms have like a 3% failure rate.
Taking Charge Of Your Fertility is a great book about FAM.
BFP 3.8.16 EDD 11.20.16
I agree that the book Taking Charge Of Your Fertility is an amazing book! I've had a couple friends who have struggled with getting pregnant and with following this book, they have since gotten pregnant!
I would have thought that the two were one in the same. Thanks for the clarification. Especially since I probably would have said we used to use NFP and in fact according to what you said we were actually using the FAM. Looking forward to Sooner's reply, I was thinking the same thing when I read her post there- where do you draw the line then?
Okay--I promise I didn't want to start a shitstorm. Here is what I think. Again, I am not an expert--this is just my opinion.
Birth control is something that you use to try to avoid having a child. There are a wide range of options, but generally, hormonal options like the pill or mirena have a .05-1% failure rate. Non-hormonal options like the Copper IUD also have a less than 1% failure rate. I believe NFP/FAM generally has a very low failure rate, when used correctly (which I assume you are, since you are TTA). So...if you really are not TTC, then you should choose one of the above methods.
PnP, standing alone, means that if you are having intercourse throughout the month most months, that approximately 27 in 100 couples will be pregnant within a year after starting this method of "birth control." If you don't do ANYTHING to prevent, then approx. 80 of the 100 couples will be pregnant within a year. So, the PnP method of "birth control" doesn't really decrease your odds of getting pregnant so significantly that I would consider a couple practicing this method of "birth control" to be TTA. Does that make sense? They know that there is a more than 1 in 4 chance that they will be pregnant within a year. And that statistic should be even higher--since they already know they are fertile from past experience.
I understand about being open to kids due to religious reasons (although FAM is pretty good about avoiding kids--if you are practicing it correctly). But if you don't have religious reasons to practice a less reliable method of birth control, to me it just seems like a pretty big life event to just act so blase about. I think if you aren't ready to have another kiddo, and you are freaking out at the thought of another one, then maybe using condoms or getting on the pill is a sensible plan. Does that make sense?
People who are using PnP as their only method of BC cannot truly be TTA. I have long maintained that anyone who is routinely having sex is TTC--unless actively TTA. There is no in between. We have all learned at least once that having sex leads to babies, unless something is used to intervene in that natural process. Based on the failure rate of PnP, I just don't consider it to be birth control that responsible people use if they truly TTA.
I just think that people who aren't truly TTA should just be open about that they are TTC, but they don't care if it takes a couple months or a year or two, because that is the reality of what they are doing.
Kle--what are your thoughts?
Jju--As I understand it, when practiced correctly, NFP has a 1.8 percent failure rate, which is .2 percent better than the mini-pill, so it is definitely a reasonably reliable method of BC.
I had to laugh though, because I am assuming you posted this from your phone. It looks like you said that you are planning to wait anywhere from now to 34 years from now to have your second child! That would be quite the impressive feat--depending on how old you currently are
I'm not going to quote you, sooner, but I'm talking to you lol.
I'm really not trying to start a shitstorm, either. I just find it interesting the idea that PNP as TTC. You've used the 27% vs. 80%, so you acknowledge that the chances of getting pregnant are much less. I guess that's the part that gets me - using PNP you decrease your chances, so IMO it is trying to avoid, just not trying as hard.
I agree that, if a baby is going to cause a super-freak-out-omg-what-are-we-going-to-do catastrophe, than a more effective method should be used. But again, DH and I are trying to avoid. For the purposes of this conversation, we might as well be using PNP. Would we be disappointed if I got pregnant? No, which is why PNP works for us. But are we actively trying to get me KU? Nope.
I'm okay agreeing to disagree on this one. I can't seem to muster any dramz today, sorry
ETA: Also, if we both had been more serious about not getting pregnant, there definitely wouldn't have been that "miscommunication".
Right. I think there's a lot of middle ground. Just like when I was in school - I didn't try as hard as I could have to Pass my classes, but I definitely wasn't trying to Fail.
I guess for me, I just consider the act of having a child so important, that if I know I can plan a good time for that child to be born (around 2 years to allow C some time to get a little more independent, roughly in the same seasonal window as last time so I can hopefully get some more use out of my maternity clothes, hopefully make partner before I go back out on maternity leave, etc.), then why would we just knowingly not really try and not really prevent?
It just seems like acting like you have no control about it and "whenever it happens, it happens," but still trying to prevent a little bit... I don't know, it seems passive aggressive to me. Like, maybe address why you would be okay with a kid now, but this is not your "ideal" time to have a kid. If there is another window that is much more ideal, then put a glove on it or get back on the pill. Or, if you would be happy with a kid right now, then stop pulling out and just go at it. But I guess if you are really "TTA," then it just seems weird to be so knowingly bad at it....
For us, the reasons we're TTA are pretty flimsy. We're planning a trip for July. My brother is getting married in August and I don't want to be huge. But the big reasons like money and wanting more children, we're totally set - we could afford it, we both know we want at least one more, we're okay with the spacing... So if we have to postpone the trip a year or I'm a whale in all of my brother's wedding pictures... Eh, not exactly deal breakers. Idk, hope that makes a little sense.
I asked DH when I came home whether I had put words in his mouth. The only thing he wanted to correct was the "catholic notion" part of what I've said. Apparently he's okay with more kids whenever they come because he just really wants more kids, not necessarily because that's what our religion teaches.
I think we are all adults on this board, and we all obviously know how babies are conceived so everyone will do what works for them. Everyone has opinions though.
Ok, here's a doozie to add to this...what about those who are allergic to condoms, spermicides, and cannot take any form of bc pills for whatever reason. Why would some form of PNP, rhythm method, family planning, whatever you want to call it, not be a form of bc for that person? Just curious!
I get what you're saying sooner...if you're not preventing, essentially you're trying. We've had this discussion on another thread and I agreed with you then. I don't know that I'd call it "trying" though, just more like not preventing.
When I got pregnant, I wasn't on bc pills, we weren't using condoms. We were not actively charting, 'trying', etc, but we were very well aware of what could/did happen. My cycles were so off the wall that I could never really tell you when/if I did ovulate. So, for me, I know that 'that' form of bc is not for me. If I'm going to prevent then it has to be bc pills or condoms. But hey, that's just me. And whatever form of bc that anyone chooses, feels comfortable with, wants to use, I say to each their own.
I seriously don't care AT ALL what BC people use. I am just interested in the concept of "not trying/not preventing" that I see on here, and the idea that if you are just having lots of unprotected sex, but aren't charting/studying your own mucus/peeing on ovulation sticks/etc. then you "aren't trying."
To me, it is just always "trying" if you aren't being vigilant about preventing.
Again, not a big deal at all--I just guess in real life, my friends "tried" by stopping using birth control. I didn't realize what an "industry" TTC is and how much effort people put into knowing every detail of their cycle until I started reading stuff on here--so that is where I am coming from...
But, again, I don't care what you use or when you use it--I was just interested in what people think about the term "TTC."
IMO, family planning/NFP is a valid form of BC. Especially if done with charting it can be extremely effective. For me personally I wouldn't feel comfortable using that as my sole form of BC, but I'm paranoid. And if someone wants to use PNP as their sole form of BC that's their choice but I would definitely be shaking my head if they were upset about getting pregnant.
CBC, I hope you don't think this is about anyone judging you. First of all, there's a huge difference between TTA and just wanting to wait a couple of months to get pregnant. I know that you've said you would be happy to be pregnant and just would have preferred a little more time to get things in order first. Honestly we got pregnant much faster then I expected and I would have preferred to get pregnant a couple of months later if I could have chosen. But having something happen a little quicker then you wanted is different then having something happen that you didn't want to happen at all.
Jen It did irk me at first, I agree in the difference because of the time frame. If someone REALLY doesn't want kids, they should use a more reliable method.
I know there are people who don't want kids that use PNP as a form of BC. My husband has a joke that he always tells his adolescent patients:
Q: What do you call couples who use PNP as their BC?
A: Parents.
Just becuase people do it, doesn't mean it is smart to do, especially if you really aren't in the mood for an extra kid.
Now, obviously, in your situation, you said you were disappointed when it was negative because you actually really were wanting another kid right now (and your husband "accidentally" forgot a pretty essential element of the whole PnP method a few weeks ago). So, I wonder if you and your husband just need to talk and decide that you really are wanting another baby and just call it TTC--as opposed to saying you are using BC, and then being "surprised" when your BC "fails." Does that make any sense? I just think you guys especially are "trying" in every way except in the name you are using.
My point is that you went back and forth in your posts from saying PNP is actively trying to it is a form of BC, just not a smart one.
As I said before, in February I had planned to try charting and everything that I could do to get pregnant. That's my opinion of what TTC is. "Ideally" we will wait to February when renovations are done, so I do not think we are trying every way we can. I would be happy, and so would H if I were pregnant, but if I turn out not to be, we will be going back to PNP until February because that's ideal. It's such a small time frame that I think it is safe to say we aren't doing everything we can to prevent, but I wouldn't say we are trying. It's all a matter of opinion of the definition of the terms. We will have to agree to disagree.
Lol!! Yes I'm bumping from my phone and no way am I waiting that long, that would put me at 61 years old when I get pregnant next time!! Lol!!
The bold above is my only real opinion on this thread. You won't get any sympathy from me if you are crying over being pregnant using PNP. My good friend had this happen and my response to her was... "Congrats! I mean you clearly weren't worried about getting pregnant so let's celebrate!"
That said I am a crazy planner like sooner so I never took any chances. I planned my boys to be exactly the age I wanted them apart. And now DH is snipped so clearly we don't do the whole TTA thing.