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Breastfeeding
pumpkinwife07
member
PSA: Over the judging...
pumpkinwife07
member
Seriously. For the love of god, please stop assuming that everyone who doesn't breastfeed or bottle feeds is jealous. IT"S NOT TRUE. Sure, there are some women who want to breastfeed and can't. But, there are lots of women out there who choose to EP, suppliment or choose to formula feed from the start. I realize this may be a hard concept for some of you to understand.
I always read posts on this board about the "rights" of EBF mothers. ALL mothers should have rights. We all get to choose how and what we feed our babies. NO ONE has a right to judge. I'm from the school that if you feed and love your baby, he or she will turn out perfectly fine.
If you want people to be accepting of breastfeeding, maybe we should start with accepting the fact that EVERYONE has the right to choose what is best for their child.
This discussion has been closed.
Re: PSA: Over the judging...
There will always be judgers. I wouldn't worry so much about it.
I'm sure some moms on here will be pretty upset that you lumped EPers with FFers. It's all about perspective.
I just worry about my own LOs.
"I'm sure some moms on here will be pretty upset that you lumped EPers with FFers. It's all about perspective."
You see that's the problem. We should all be MOTHERS first. How and what you feed your baby shouldn't define you and it certainly shouldn't give you license to judge anyone else.
Not sure why you have to come to the BREASTFEEDING board to JUDGE us.
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Personally, I don't think this is true. I have been a lurker on this board for 9 months now. At least once a week there is a post where someone says, "I have to supplement, what type of formula is best," or "how do I start supplementing," and without fail, the majority of the responses are about how to increase your supply rather than how to supplement. I have seen numerous people suggest waking up in the middle of the night to pump, even when your baby is STTN. Honestly, no study will ever convince me that it is better to remain sleep deprived than to give your baby a bit of formula.
I have just started to have to supplement with FF. I literally cried because I felt like a total and utter selfish failure because I wasn't willing to power pump every night, wake up extra early to pump, pump while driving, take prescription medication without a prescription, etc. to keep my LO EBF, since that seems to be the message on this board. I genuinely feel like this board is great for supporting breastfeeding mothers, but I just have to disagree that it's very supplement friendly.
I agree. Feeding your kid (including what kind of food, how much, how often, overnight/no overnight, etc.) is only one aspect of about 1000 parenting decisions that you make every day. Several of my friends are full on sanctimommies about BF-ing, but they also have allowed their LO's to sleep on their tummies since the day they got home from the hospital b/c "they sleep better like that." As far as I can tell, no babies born in the US die from being fed formula, but the SIDS rate for babies sleeping on their tummies is 50% higher than those who sleep on their backs.
It is amusing to me what the "vogue" sanctimommy things are in every generation. I promise that FF moms are not hating on BF moms because they are jealous. This is the equivalent of teenaged girls saying "I don't have any girl friends because girls hate me 'cause I'm beautiful." No, honey, people hate you because you aren't a nice person.
I have EBF for 8.5 months because there may possibly be marginal benefits to offering my LO BM. The latest studies I have read indicate that the benefits are probably very slight, but I am happy to give that advantage to my LO because BF-ing came pretty easy to me, I have a job where I can pump at work twice a day and don't get unduly disadvantaged from taking those pumping breaks, and I think it is easier to BF when home with my LO.
I enjoy helping BF-ing moms improve their BF relationship, if that is what they want to do. But I see so many women on this board who are so beaten down and both physically and emotionally spent, who, I believe, would be far better served by a big hug, congratulations for having given an incredibly valiant effort, and then some helpful guidance regarding how to add supplements to their BM production (if they want to) so that they can adequately feed their baby and not continue beating themselves up about not being their baby's "sole source of nutrition."
Until I follow every single AAP recommendation on every subject (including ones that I don't necessary agree with), engage my LO every single second that I am awake without taking any time for myself, quit my job so that she gets to hang out only with her nuclear family until she goes off to school, allow her to play with only certified non-toxic and green-produced toys, feed her only perfectly-balanced (protein, veggie, fruit, dairy) meals at the exact right times every day, time her naps perfectly so that she gets just the right amount of sleep every day (regardless of the demands on my schedule), etc., then who the heck am I to judge what another mother decides with regards to what kind of food she feeds her baby? And who am I to feel superior or self-righteous about one decision I have made with respect to the type of food I feed my baby?
I think women put a lot of the pressure on themselves but if you scroll down to the FB posts thread you'll see a lot of women defending FF and supplementing. They encourage women not to give up because, usually, they're supplementing because they feel defeated or that the baby isn't getting enough. From what I've seen and read there isn't a "FORMULA IS THE DEVIL" attitude but, come on, you're on the BFing board....the women here are going to encourage you to keep trying to BF. That's just common sense.
Edited for clarification.
To the poster who doesn't see the judging comments. Here is what I've seen just today:
1. Some people are just idiots! In reality...he is probably just jealous that his wife did not nurse their children, so he is making rude comments towards you to make himself feel better.
2. As for his wife, she probably feels insecure about her own mothering skills because she didn't want to breastfeed and now you're showing her up.
And, there are MANY other comments like that posted every day. I get that this is a breastfeeding board, but there are mothers on here to don't EBF.
Yes all mothers should have rights but it's important to realize that the rights of breastfeeding mothers to simply feed their children had to be fought for. No one questioned a mother formula feeding a baby in a mall but there was a time when that it would have been a horrible thing for a breastfeeding woman to feed her child in a public place.
Breastmilk is best for babies. That's not anti-formula, it's the truth. That being said I don't think breastfeeding is necessary to have a healthy, happy baby. I think the choice to breastfeed or not to breastfeed should be left to each mother.
I have encountered many more people against breastfeeding than I have those who support it. And even those who think breastfeeding is ok can sometimes have strict limits as to when it becomes not ok.
I agree women need to stop placing judgement on each other for choices like this. Either choice can be a good choice.
EDIT There are women who will judge but it's not a problem unique to breastfeeding. It seems some people might be taking any sort of opinion as judgment.
You need to wake up if you think breastfeeding mothers are the only ones being judged. I know several mothers, including myself, who have received nasty looks upon pulling out a bottle. The funny part: know one can even tell what's in the bottle. It's just assumed that it's filled with formula.
Breastmilk is good for babies. Formula is too. My goal is to have happy and healthy children. Their health and happiness has nothing to do with what they are fed. I know breastfed babies who are sick all the time and formula fed babies who have never been sick. There are outside factors that play a role.
The most important thing to remember is CHOICE.
No one said they aren't judged but it's silly to say they are judged MORE than women who breastfeed. IT hasn't even been ok to breastfeed in public very long. Women were kicked out of restaurants and malls for nursing. Stop trying to find judgement in everything.
Choice is important but maybe you think some things are being judged that aren't. Breastmilk is best for babies. It's a fact. It's not judgemental to say this. I don't have to pretend science hasn't proven this to make anyone feel ok. I don't think it's necessary to breastfeed and I certainly don't think every women has to breastfeed.
Make your choice and be ok with your choice.
Have you breastfed a child over 1 year old? Try doing that and see what people say and judge.
EDIT It does seem odd to say you keep reading about the rights of breastfeeding mothers on the Breastfeeding board. Isn't that where you would expect to see things like that.
Blush - what's best for a baby is my opinion is a happy and healthy mother. At the end of the day it doesn't matter what that baby is eating if the mother is a mess. Sometimes moms need to pump, some need to suppliment and others decide formula feeding is best. See what I mean? A bunch of statistics don't mean jack if a mommy can't care for her baby.
I do think we should be able to feed our babies in public. I just don't think we have to tear other mothers down in order to get our point across.
Well, I agree that the post below was out of line. I have seen other posts like it on the boards. But, I think you need to step out of TB and into real life and see the big picture. At least where I am from FF is much more accepted than BFing. I have had to deal with a lot of judgement for doing what I feel is best for my daughter. I come here and go to LLL to hear about people BFing because no one in my family does it. I really like that some people are over the top supportive of BFing. It gives balance to my real life. I agree that no one should be shamed or bashed or badgered into BFing. I don't agree that no one can have an opinion that BFing is better for babies. I don't agree that people can't give advice on how to avoid supplementing. I don't agree that giving that advice is in anyway judgmental. Sometimes women are given what appears to be bad advice and having a different perspective can help with making a decision to continue with supplementing or not.
And really, the only posts I see from you on this board are about how BFing doesn't matter. Well, it matters to me. I am proud of being able to nurse my daughter for the last two years. I hope to with my next LO. And if I need advice on any BF issues that may come up I will kindly ask you not to advise me to just give formula because it doesn't matter. It matters to me. And, while it may not matter to everyone, I am pretty sure it matters to most people who ask for help on this board...or they wouldn't ask.
I don't think breastfeeding is the only way to have a happy, healthy baby. I mentinoed that many times. I am not saying all women should breastfeed. I am talking about breastmilk vs formula and breastmilk is better at meeting the needs of a baby nutritionally. I am not saying it's the right choice for everyone and I certainly think when making the choice you have to weigh in many factors. I will not pretend that I don't have an opinion and there's a reason that even formula companies have to say brestmilk is best for babies. People have to do what's right for their family and situation but that doesn't change facts like that.
I have never torn someone down for feeding formula. Most of my family has formula fed their babies. My mother formula fed all her children. We choose what's best for our family but it doesn't change facts. My sister decided to formula feed her newest daughter because she find it easier. She can breastfeed but doesn't want to. There's nothing wrong with it. Just because I won't say forumla is equal to breastmilk nutritionally doesn't mean I judge women who choose to (or have to) formula feed.
I am pregnant and as of now I will breastfeed but you know what, i might not.
I worked in a daycare with infants for 7 years. Not trying to offend anyone, but the BF babies spit up a lot less and had fewer stomach/digestive issues. For that reason alone, I chose to EBF. I still don't think formula is bad... it just isn't what babies are "supposed" to eat if BM is available.
Yup, I admit it. My comment on the other post was one of those used by pumpkin to "prove" her point. I made a comment that the poster's sister-in-law was probably insecure based on the tone of the post. I felt that the poster was being unfairly judged (there's that word again) for choosing to breastfeed. I don't care if someone formula feeds or breastfeeds (in fact I recently have decided to supplement since I switched to pumping for a variety of reasons) but, at least where I live, I am looked a like I have 10 heads because I wanted to breastfeed my son. It's so unfair. Everyone is all "breast is best" and yet, if you say that you are breastfeeding, you get crazy looks and "Really?!?" As much as I want to say that people's opinions don't matter to me, they have influenced me. I did not feel supported by my family at all and I was treated as if my decision to breastfeed somehow ruined their relationship with my son.
I don't judge women who formula feed their children but I do judge women who judge those who breastfeed.
I still don't like how you lump these together. I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt before, but you have now written this twice in once post. I know you are saying that FFing isn't bad, and we are all agreeing with you. BUT, you are pointing out that it's different from BFing - am I correct in that assumption? By grouping together FFers and moms who need to pump....my interpretation is that babies who receive pumped milk are somehow lower on your scale of awesome. Which just isn't cool. Babies who get pumped milk are getting the same nutrition as babies who nurse. I just wanted to point out how your words were interpretted by me. And now, I'm mad at myself for stirring this pot, haha.
She's responding to the distinction that the "straight from the source" people (lactivists) on here make. It's not her idea (although she could word it better). We obviously all feel that breastfeeding is beneficial and want it to work maximally for any parent who wishes it to.
The posts yesterday were awful...well at least the FB one. I saw a few questionable replies in the brother one, but they just struck me as being over the top supportive of the OP. I'm not a fan of the word throat punch in any circumstance or of saying so and so is just jealous, but it is the lingo around here and does not just exist on the BFing board.
But, are you suggesting that no one offer advice that is not strictly asked for? What if a woman doesn't know other options? What if that advice makes her think, "OH, maybe there is something else I can try. My doctor never bothered to tell me that?" Now if she comes on and says that she has done all the work she wants to and just wants a formula rec, that's different, but I don't like the idea of having a bunch of rules on what I can and cannot say. I offer my experience and my advice. And it has changed over the last two years as I have read other posts and seen other perspectives.
There are plenty of posts offering advice on how to supplement and what women have used. I see nothing wrong with hearing a perspective from a woman who tried something different and had success. All of our experiences are important...and it kinda bothers me that basically what this post is saying is that those who EBF can't offer advice. Just because we EBF we are somehow acting superior or bashing other moms. That is just not the case.
AmyG - you are a wealth of knowledge and have supported many, many women on here. And, while I don't agree with your die hard stance on breastfeeding, I can appreciate the message you're trying to send.
"All of our experiences are important...and it kinda bothers me that basically what this post is saying is that those who EBF can't offer advice. Just because we EBF we are somehow acting superior or bashing other moms. That is just not the case."
Maybe you don't think you're superior or that you bash other moms, but there are a bunch of EBF bullies on this board.
I must not be getting enough sleep because that's the opposite of what I was trying to say - I guess the little parentheses wasn't enough. I think a range of options should be presented. So, it's great that some people offer suggestions on how to increase supply or try something to get over a particular hurdle. But a BF/FF mix is okay, too - it's still BF and the baby gets the majority of benefits of bm even when not ebf. I do think that sometimes women are encouraged to 100% bf in a way that takes so much time/energy it takes away from other aspects of parenting/family life. And I EBF, my children have never had formula and I am happy to offer advice.
I've been lurking an occasionally posting on this board and I've not seen a bully. Your behavior over the last two days is probably the worst I've seen. When posed with a breastfeeding problem, the first option should always be how can we make the breastfeeding work. The health benefits for baby and mom make EBF superior. Most clinicians agree that this is a public health issue. You aren't bad or a poor mom because you can't make EBF work for whatever reason, but pretending that there isn't benefits to breast milk and FF is an equal choice for infant nutrition is incorrect and not congruent with the current literature. There are lots of reasons mom choose different types of infant feeding and everyone realizes this. Since you can't see any of this as a relay of info, but instead a personal attack on you, I think it's clear that you probably should step away from this board since it causes you so much distress.
My quote was poorly directed, because it was not entirely directed at you. But the gist of the OP was that way. I can't offer advice on supplementing because I didn't do it. It's not in my range of experience. I was told that I should consider supplementing in the hospital because DD was losing a normal amount of weight. I knew she was fine and I had to leave early so that I'd be left alone. And she had well surpassed her birth weight by the 2 week check. I am pretty sure my experience is not unusual. So, I offer my advice and perspective.
I guess I can either offer advice on what i know or keep my mouth shut. And the gist of the OP was to keep my mouth shut. I think that is wrong.
AmyG - I do see the big picture. Here's the thing: my big picture looks a little different than yours. I would love to live in a world where mothers supported other mothers regardless of their feeding decisions. Sadly, that just doesn't happen. Breastmilk has its benefits. I never said it didn't. But at some point for some woman those benefits disappear if they just can't make it work.
For example: My SIL was in a downright depression over breastfeeding. She hated it. She couldn't make enough milk. It was effecting her relationship with her husband. It was effecting her son's relationship with his father. She had the support of her family and friends. It just didn't work for her. The advice she got from LC's and even her pedi: you must at least EBF for the first six months. She continued to do something she hated. She was told it was the only way she'd bond with her son. He screamed night after night. Daycare complained that she wasn't sending enough milk. She not only hated breastfeeding. She hated herself and was headed to a very unhappy and unhealthy place. I'm sorry, but you cannot tell me the benefits of breastfeeding outweigh a person's sanity. She eventually got help and switched over to formula. She became a new person and her son thrived. He's now a happy and healthy 18 month old. It's wonderful to see.
That may be an extreme case, but I see lots of posts on here where people are crying and at their wits end. It saddens me to think that those first weeks and months are lost because a woman feels pressure to breastfeed. And, while I'm not asking you to change, perhaps you and some others could be more understanding. Not everyone is willing to give up everything to EBF.
Or perhaps you and I could just agree to disagree?
This might not be the best place to come for formula recs. When women come here asking dor supplementing help, they are often given tips and advice for increasing their supply or otherwise making BFing work without it. This is not done to be "judgey," it's done b/c pedis SUCK at helping mOms BF. Women are OFTEN told to supplement when it's not needed. So it is good to make sure women who supplement make a fully informed decision and are aware that there are OFTEN other options.
I mean, BFing is going to be promoted here. Above formula. Always. Would you go to the eco friendly board and cry that you're being judged for not recycling?
Regarding jealousy, in my experience people who cry the loudest about being judged usually are the ones insecure about their decisions.