Let's discuss.

kcisthebombdotcom

On my facebook one of the positive parenting sites they shared this link and stressed that parents shouldn't make kids sit on Santa's lap. What say ye, parenting?

https://dawnawakening.wordpress.com/2010/12/14/santa-in-the-mall-whats-that-got-to-do-with-child-abuse/

jess60

https://dawnawakening.wordpress.com/2010/12/14/santa-in-the-mall-whats-that-got-to-do-with-child-abuse/

Clicky.

Now off to read the article.

Mrs.adambabycakes

Well, if they don't want to, why make them? I didn't read the article.

tarebear9891

I would never force them to do Santa pictures if they didn't want to so that's why we haven't done thin yet.

This year my oldest really wants to go and meet Santa so we will.

Mrs.adambabycakes

My dog has sat on Santas lap.

Fianschneid

I'm not big on the idea of making my daughter sit on anyone's lap (Santa, uncle, friend) just to be polite or to please people, if she doesn't want to sit there. I don't think that sends the right message.

I'll probably try the Santa thing and if she hates it, I won't make her do it.

jess60

The Santa we take DS to doesn't only do lap photos.  If DS is more comfortable on the floor, Santa will sit next to him on the floor, read him a book or something & they will take the photo there.  They do all they can to make the experience a happy one for each individual kid.

We're visiting him this Saturday.

RockyTopVols

She is such a nonconformist and is so cool. 

She hates Christmas and then uses her anecdotal abuse story as a reason to continue hating Christmas.

She says it is about not forcing your child to sit on Santa's lap. Okay cool. If your kid doesn't want to, no problem. 

But the author of this post is making it out to be that all kids should be "empowered" like her kids to say No and not want to sit on Santa's lap.

Another question: What about discipline then? She says she praises her kids when they say "No" and "Stop". She says a kid owns their body and they have rights over it (even over the parent). So.. in her world, it is okay if her kids say "No" to her assertively? It is okay if you decide to pop your child on the rear, but the kid says "No thanks, I'll pass this time"?

I am just confused. It seems like you could replace the world "children" in this article with anything. Women. Blacks. Dogs. Furbies. "Empower your Women!"

At least on the surface I agree with her. If your kid doesn't want to sit on Santa's Lap, no need to force them to. That seems silly.  

Monsieur_et_Madame_Ha

I'm all for having pictures of my kids with Santa, so long as they want to do it. I don't see the point in forcing your child to sit on Santa's lap if they don't want to.

However, the place we went to last year (and will be going to again this year) was really cool and let all of us (me, DH and the girls) be in the picture. So I'm not going to lie: if DD1 shows any hesitation, I will ask her if she wants DH and I to go with her. If she does, that's what we'll do. If she doesn't, then that will be that. 

Mrs.adambabycakes

EllaHella:

Mrs.adambabycakes:

My dog has sat on Santas lap.

Mine does every year.  Her face tells me she hates me for it.  I don't care.

I even dressed him in a button down shirt with a vest.

CoffeeBeen

I only skimmed it, but I can't stand her tone.

I agree that if a child is not ok with it then skip it.  What's the worst that can happen?  You don't have pictures with Santa this year?  Big deal.

Libby1978

I would not force Oliver to sit on Santa's lap.  We went to see Santa last year.  I knew from the get go that if he was scared and did not want to do it that I would simply leave.  It is not worth upsetting my child to get a picture of him on Santa's lap.  He did not get upset and did take a picture.  I will go again this year and will only have his picture taken with Santa if he is ok with it.

RockyTopVols

EllaHella:

The author is a little off putting in her attempt to be too cool for school.  I'm having trouble getting past that.

Let me re-read with a clearer head later.  But for now, I am inclined to say that I will attempt it and abort the mission if it seems like an eminent failure.  Cause I have no desire to deal with a tantrum if I don't have to. 

 

I agree with your assessment 100%.  

RockyTopVols

EllaHella:

RockyTopVols:

EllaHella:

The author is a little off putting in her attempt to be too cool for school.  I'm having trouble getting past that.

Let me re-read with a clearer head later.  But for now, I am inclined to say that I will attempt it and abort the mission if it seems like an eminent failure.  Cause I have no desire to deal with a tantrum if I don't have to. 

 

I agree with your assessment 100%.  

Thank you.  You may stay.

 

I am honored.

 

As previously mentioned, the author's tone is horrible. She reminds me of my SIL. She tries to negotiate with my 4 year old nephew (not her son, but my BIL's). And then she wonders why he runs all over her. She doesn't believe in disciplining children. If he yells her or kicks her, she pulls him on her lap to discuss what is bothering his inner-chi or some BS.

 He kicked me one time when I was watching him. He found himself in time out really quickly for about 5 minutes and once he apologized for kicking me and understood that was not an acceptable action.  

Too bad I hadn't empowered him to tell me "No" and decide he wasn't going to be disciplined/put in time out that day.  

tarebear9891

RockyTopVols:

Another question: What about discipline then? She says she praises her kids when they say "No" and "Stop". She says a kid owns their body and they have rights over it even over the parent. So.. in her world, it is okay if her kids say "No" to her assertively? It is okay if you decide to pop your child on the rear, but the kid says "No thanks, I'll pass this time"? I am just confused. It seems like you could replace the world "children" in this article with anything.nbsp;

Actually we have a no hitting rule in our house, which includes us a parents. If I were to ever spank my kids I'm sure they would call me out on it and they would be right. Rules apply to every one and I am able to discipline them without hitting them.

And yes I teach my kids that they "own" their bodies.

It's kind of a silly comparison because teaching them that they have control of their bodies doesn't prevent me from parenting them.

kcisthebombdotcom

I'm totally the mean parent who has a picture from last year at Christmas of my son crying on Santa's lap. Not surprising, eh? lol.

If he were throwing a tantrum in line because he was terrified to go sit on santa's lap I wouldn't force him to do it. But we got through the line, he sat there for a few seconds then started to cry. I let her finish taking the picture instead of grabbing him off right away just for the sake of capturing the photo tears and all. He seems to be a pretty happy kiddo so I guess I didn't scar him for life. Perhaps he'll be in therapy for it 5 years from now though.

 

RockyTopVols

tarebear9891:

RockyTopVols:

Another question: What about discipline then? She says she praises her kids when they say "No" and "Stop". She says a kid owns their body and they have rights over it even over the parent. So.. in her world, it is okay if her kids say "No" to her assertively? It is okay if you decide to pop your child on the rear, but the kid says "No thanks, I'll pass this time"? I am just confused. It seems like you could replace the world "children" in this article with anything.nbsp;

Actually we have a no hitting rule in our house, which includes us a parents. If I were to ever spank my kids I'm sure they would call me out on it and they would be right. Rules apply to every one and I am able to discipline them without hitting them. And yes I teach my kids that they "own" their bodies. It's kind of a silly comparison because teaching them that they have control of their bodies doesn't prevent me from parenting them.

Fair enough. To each their own.

What about vaccination shots for school? Can your children decline them because they don't want the needle to touch their body and then you can't send them to school because they decided to not have the shots?

 

What if they are 12 and decide they want to be sexually active with their "boyfriend/girlfriend"? It is their body and they can decide who touches it, right? Not the parent. 

What if your 14 year old decides they want a tattoo? No problem. It is their body, their decision. They own their body and are the ultimate authority. 

I know those are extreme, but- in the world where a child has 100% say- it can happen. And yes... 12 year olds having sex and 14 year olds with tattoos are not as uncommon as you think. My wife has been a teacher for almost 10 years and has seen her fair share of that in middle school children.

CoffeeBeen

KC_13:

I'm totally the mean parent who has a picture from last year at Christmas of my son crying on Santa's lap. Not surprising, eh? lol.

If he were throwing a tantrum in line because he was terrified to go sit on santa's lap I wouldn't force him to do it. But we got through the line, he sat there for a few seconds then started to cry. I let her finish taking the picture instead of grabbing him off right away just for the sake of capturing the photo tears and all. He seems to be a pretty happy kiddo so I guess I didn't scar him for life. Perhaps he'll be in therapy for it 5 years from now though.

There's a difference between giving them a chance to calm themselves down and letting them work themselves into a tantrum.  It sounds like you gave him a minute and unfortunately he wasn't able to get a handle on himself.  It's not like you let him cry through the whole line.

In fact, I think it would have been more weird if you swooped your child up at the first sign of a tear and sprinted out of the mall.  Sometimes they can recover.

tarebear9891

Rocky I don't want to create a giant thread of responses so I will respond here.

I still use methods such a time out. They can certainly tell me "no" to which I would say "you broke rules you now have consequences.

As far as your other points, of course I will do everything I can to prevent them from being sexually active early, tattooing up their bodies and doing drugs...but ultimately it is their body and they will do what they want with it. Hopefully I raise them to make good choices

tarebear9891

Also this is the oddest turn of convo haha. From Santa to spanking to sexually active teens.

kcisthebombdotcom

CoffeeBeen:

KC_13:

I'm totally the mean parent who has a picture from last year at Christmas of my son crying on Santa's lap. Not surprising, eh? lol.

If he were throwing a tantrum in line because he was terrified to go sit on santa's lap I wouldn't force him to do it. But we got through the line, he sat there for a few seconds then started to cry. I let her finish taking the picture instead of grabbing him off right away just for the sake of capturing the photo tears and all. He seems to be a pretty happy kiddo so I guess I didn't scar him for life. Perhaps he'll be in therapy for it 5 years from now though.

 

There's a difference between giving them a chance to calm themselves down and letting them work themselves into a tantrum.  It sounds like you gave him a minute and unfortunately he wasn't able to get a handle on himself.  It's not like you let him cry through the whole line.

In fact, I think it would have been more weird if you swooped your child up at the first sign of a tear and sprinted out of the mall.  Sometimes they can recover.

I suppose you're right but the author probably wouldn't agree. haha.

I dont know--I buy into the whole positive discipline thing but I think people take it way too overboard and write crap like this then wonder why people have such a negative impression of attachment parenting.

MrsGoodkat

KC_13:

I'm totally the mean parent who has a picture from last year at Christmas of my son crying on Santa's lap. Not surprising, eh? lol.

If he were throwing a tantrum in line because he was terrified to go sit on santa's lap I wouldn't force him to do it. But we got through the line, he sat there for a few seconds then started to cry. I let her finish taking the picture instead of grabbing him off right away just for the sake of capturing the photo tears and all. He seems to be a pretty happy kiddo so I guess I didn't scar him for life. Perhaps he'll be in therapy for it 5 years from now though.

 

This is where I am. If he sits in his lap and starts crying after a minute, I'm okay taking the pic. If he starts with the hysterics right away I obviously wouldn't make him stay there just to get the picture. 

RockyTopVols

Haha yes it is. I am not trying to advocate or demonize spanking children. That is a personal choice each family makes. There have been kids who have gone on to live normal lives from both camps. 

 My point with the sexual active teen was that do you not exercise any authority over your children's body?  

Again, what if your kid decided they didn't want to get a vaccination for school? Do you say "Okay, your body- you have control. Lets roll out of here we don't need school!".  

I just don't see how you can tell your child "you have 100% final decision about your body" but then try to tell them they have to get a shot, take the gross medicine they don't want to take, can't put a tattoo on their body, etc. 

tarebear9891

RockyTopVols:

Haha yes it is. I am not trying to advocate or demonize spanking children. That is a personal choice each family makes. There have been kids who have gone on to live normal lives from both camps.nbsp;nbsp;My point with the sexual active teen was that do you not exercise any authority over your children's body? nbsp;Again, what if your kid decided they didn't want to get a vaccination for school? Do you say "Okay, your body you have control. Lets roll out of here we don't need school!". nbsp;I just don't see how you can tell your child "you have 100 final decision about your body" but then try to tell them they have to get a shot, take the gross medicine they don't want to take, can't put a tattoo on their body, etc.nbsp;

I see your point. I guess I exert somewhat control over their bodies until they are cognitively mature enough to make decisions regarding things such as vaccinations. I guess there is a balance of them having control and me having a say until they are equipped to make their own mature decisions.

MrsGoodkat

EllaHella:

MrsGoodkat:

This is where I am. If he sits in his lap and starts crying after a minute, I'm okay taking the pic. If he starts with the hysterics right away I obviously wouldn't make him stay there just to get the picture. 

Here is where I veer from you guise...I'm not forcing myself to stand there and endure a public tantrum.  My selfish parenting also makes me a good parent...finally.

What do you mean? I wouldn't make him stay if he's having a full out tantrum but if it's just the pouty lip I might still just let them take the picture. Like last year he kind of had a nervous WTF face in his pic but he wasn't upset.

I doubt we'll even try Santa this year because he's got so much more attitude this year than last year when he was so sweet.  

Tigger & pooh

My kids are 6 and 4 I ask them every year if they want to visit santa and as soon as they see the guy the say no. I don't push it because I am not paying for pictures of my kids crying and they know it isn't the "real" Santa.

[Deleted User]

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RockyTopVols

tarebear9891:

RockyTopVols:

Haha yes it is. I am not trying to advocate or demonize spanking children. That is a personal choice each family makes. There have been kids who have gone on to live normal lives from both camps.nbsp;nbsp;My point with the sexual active teen was that do you not exercise any authority over your children's body? nbsp;Again, what if your kid decided they didn't want to get a vaccination for school? Do you say "Okay, your body you have control. Lets roll out of here we don't need school!". nbsp;I just don't see how you can tell your child "you have 100 final decision about your body" but then try to tell them they have to get a shot, take the gross medicine they don't want to take, can't put a tattoo on their body, etc.nbsp;

I see your point. I guess I exert somewhat control over their bodies until they are cognitively mature enough to make decisions regarding things such as vaccinations. I guess there is a balance of them having control and me having a say until they are equipped to make their own mature decisions.

 

Fair enough. I do concede that the age of the child should also be taken into question and the context as well.  

klondikebar

There is a difference between pushing a wary child that is mildly upset and causing your child to vomit out of fear. And I like our Santa. He has a couch the children can sit next to him on .

tarebear9891

Scout2005:

Also, even though I think this is sort of much ado about not much, the vaccine comparison here is silly.

Vaccines save your life. I love Santa, but posing with him for a picture is not necessary to good health. Forcing one and not forcing the other is hardly hypocritical.

This is basically what I was trying to say and didn't really succeed. Yes I will exert control over something that saves my child.

shibby00

Hmmm so should I feel bad about the pic from last year where Maggie has a horrified look on her face and proceeded to cry? Cuz I thought it was funny. Bad mom of the year?

Smootchy

Well, ya'll know how I feel about Santa and part of my feelings come from seeing SIL forcing her dd to sit on santa's lap for a picture... Is it child abuse? No, I think that's extreme.

....didn't read article... Guess I should do that now.
ETA: I'd like to punch the author, she sounds annoying. I don't care for Santa so I don't push it. See makes us few Santa haters look bad.