Mild negative behaviors- not sure what to do

nomadica

We're having some behavior struggles with my 2 1/2 year old son (PDD-NOS). A big one is pushing. This doesn't seem malicious, but if another child gets in his space or goes to a toy he's going to, he'll push the child away. He will also push or grab at us and his ABA therapist if he's mad at us (e.g. for making a demand he doesn't like). He also seems to think that pushing us, or pulling my hair, is funny. DS is also really not listening. He'll engage in a negative behavior- say, grabbing at our dog. We'll say no, we don't do that, and give a time out warning. He'll do it again, and we'll put him in time-out (he laughs most of the way through TO), and then he'll go right back to doing it again. We praise good behaviors regularly. DS gets 15-20 hours of ABA per week, and this doesn't seem to be curbing these behaviors either. Thoughts?

P.S. I also struggle with knowing if these are typical 2 1/2 year old behaviors or if this is the ASD talking. DS's daycare teachers seem to think this is annoying but typical behavior, but his ABA staff act like it's an ASD issue. It's very hard to me to know anymore what behaviors are developmentally normal and what I should be more worried about. 

annibes

We found that DS responded much better to an instruction of what to do rather than "no, don't do that." So when he hit me or DH or the dog, we would say "use nice hands to Mommy." First we physically showed him how, hand over hand. Then we gave the verbal direction and withdrew the physical support slowly until he has it down. I still have to catch him as he's trying to hit and say "nice hands!" but sometimes he will stop mid swing and use a gentle pat or rub on the arm. The hitting has GREATLY decresed and we are now trying to give him words to describe how he feels/why e wants to hit usually related to having to follow a direction "I'm mad!" "I don't want bath," "No have to potty," etc. It's a loong process but he's getting there.

kcisthebombdotcom

My 2.5 year old does not have ASD/behavior issues but has recently started pushing other kids for toys/hitting me when he's upset when he's never done this kind of behavior in the past. I agree with your daycare that getting possessive over items/pushing/hitting is all on par for that age. We do playgroups with peers his age and see it with other kids that age as well. Maybe the ASD makes him act out like that more frequently/severely but what you described is things you'd see in "typical" 2.5 year olds as well.

Time out doesn't really work for us either and had a similar reaction to being a game vs teaching a lesson. If he pushes another child going for the same toy, I remove the toy from him while I ignore him and give lots of attention to his sister (who is usually the victim of his pushing). If he's rough to the dog, I separate him from the dog while I give the dog attention while ignoring DS. Sometimes punishment for stuff like gives him attention (and negative attention can be equally good in a toddler's mind as positive attention) and motivates him to do it more, so try to change your reaction to it.

nomadica

Thanks for your responses!

We do use "nice hands" and show him, and when we ask him to show us "nice hands", he does. And we do a lot of praise when he's appropriate (with us, the dog, other kids). Unfortunately, it hasn't helped much:( I like the idea of ignoring him and showering attention on something else when he behaves badly. I might scrap time outs altogether? He just seems to think the whole thing is hilarious. What do/did you do with your child when he/she just didn't listen to commands? I feel like an amateur at this!

annibes

nomadica:

Thanks for your responses!We do use "nice hands" and show him, and when we ask him to show us "nice hands", he does. And we do a lot of praise when he's appropriate with us, the dog, other kids. Unfortunately, it hasn't helped much: I like the idea of ignoring him and showering attention on something else when he behaves badly. I might scrap time outs altogether? He just seems to think the whole thing is hilarious. What do/did you do with your child when he/she just didn't listen to commands? I feel like an amateur at this!

I give him one verbal direction the way I would to anyone else. If he doesn't respond appropriately, I give him the same direction in simplified terms his level right now is 23, sometimes 4 words. If that doesn't work, he gets a visual or tactile or procedural cue. If that fails intake him by the hand and help him. Example: tonight he tried to take his plate to the sink and it fell, so he walked away. We said, "get your plate and put it in the sink." No response, so we said, "plate in sink." No response, so we repeated "plate in sink" and pointed to the plate on the floor. That worked. If it hadn't, I would have called him over and either handed him the plate or touched the plate. I know that's not necessarily a behavior example, but I'm tired and it's the best I can manage right now haha.

nomadica

annibes:

nomadica:

Thanks for your responses!We do use "nice hands" and show him, and when we ask him to show us "nice hands", he does. And we do a lot of praise when he's appropriate with us, the dog, other kids. Unfortunately, it hasn't helped much: I like the idea of ignoring him and showering attention on something else when he behaves badly. I might scrap time outs altogether? He just seems to think the whole thing is hilarious. What do/did you do with your child when he/she just didn't listen to commands? I feel like an amateur at this!

I give him one verbal direction the way I would to anyone else. If he doesn't respond appropriately, I give him the same direction in simplified terms his level right now is 23, sometimes 4 words. If that doesn't work, he gets a visual or tactile or procedural cue. If that fails intake him by the hand and help him. Example: tonight he tried to take his plate to the sink and it fell, so he walked away. We said, "get your plate and put it in the sink." No response, so we said, "plate in sink." No response, so we repeated "plate in sink" and pointed to the plate on the floor. That worked. If it hadn't, I would have called him over and either handed him the plate or touched the plate. I know that's not necessarily a behavior example, but I'm tired and it's the best I can manage right now haha.

 Thanks for this. What do you do if he fights you? DS fights us a lot if we try to do hand-over-hand or guide him.

annibes

nomadica:

annibes:

nomadica:

Thanks for your responses!We do use "nice hands" and show him, and when we ask him to show us "nice hands", he does. And we do a lot of praise when he's appropriate with us, the dog, other kids. Unfortunately, it hasn't helped much: I like the idea of ignoring him and showering attention on something else when he behaves badly. I might scrap time outs altogether? He just seems to think the whole thing is hilarious. What do/did you do with your child when he/she just didn't listen to commands? I feel like an amateur at this!

I give him one verbal direction the way I would to anyone else. If he doesn't respond appropriately, I give him the same direction in simplified terms his level right now is 23, sometimes 4 words. If that doesn't work, he gets a visual or tactile or procedural cue. If that fails intake him by the hand and help him. Example: tonight he tried to take his plate to the sink and it fell, so he walked away. We said, "get your plate and put it in the sink." No response, so we said, "plate in sink." No response, so we repeated "plate in sink" and pointed to the plate on the floor. That worked. If it hadn't, I would have called him over and either handed him the plate or touched the plate. I know that's not necessarily a behavior example, but I'm tired and it's the best I can manage right now haha.

 Thanks for this. What do you do if he fights you? DS fights us a lot if we try to do hand-over-hand or guide him.

If we get a small fight (protest, spaghetti legs, etc) we increase the physical support to help him complete the task while he is protesting and then praise the final result ("you put plate in sink! That's a big boy! Mommy's so proud!" The pride piece only works when I mention a big boy or that I'm proud of him acting like a big boy- the rest of the time it appears that he doesn't give two doodles about what I think of him, haha). If he does an all-out screaming/hitting/flailing tantrum, we reduce the expectation even more-we might physically help him hand DH the plate so DH can take it to the sink. That way he doesn't get off without doing what he was told just because he screamed/flailed. We take the route of successive approximation- trying to master one small step at a time in order until you've mastered the task. It's made a world of difference for us!

annibes

-auntie-:

then praise the final result ("you put plate in sink! That's a big boy! Mommy's so proud!" The pride piece only works when I mention a big boy or that I'm proud of him acting like a big boy- the rest of the time it appears that he doesn't give two doodles about what I think of him, haha).

Your post reminded me of something DS said to me when he was little, maybe 3-ish. DS is a little unusual among those on spectrum in that he didn't tantrum and was typically pretty good natured and cooperative. It's one of the reasons he was almost 7 when he was dx'd. Anyhoo, I was getting ready to drive him somewhere and told him I wanted to use the bathroom first; I said "It would make mama happy if you would pee before we get in the car". He looked at me sort of puzzled and said "why would I care if you're happy?" He wasn't being the smartazz that he is now, he was genuinely confused.

The other thing that struck is the "big boy" thing. A significant number of kids on spectrum do not see "Big boy" (or girl) as a positive thing. Being big, maturing, is a change and this is a crowd that tends to resist change. I get a surprising number of emails from parents of tweens who are doing all they can to pretend puberty isn't happening. It can get real interesting.

It's great that it works for you, but it doesn't always translate well.

Yeah I don't know why he likes that one, but he does. Other praise he doesn't seem to care about at all. He doesn't take pride in much, but that he does. I do have a hard time believing he knows what being a big boy means, though.