Discipline, Punishment, Whatever You Call It, When To Start? Or not?
beautiflaw
member
So I know lots of people have lots of different words for punishments or discipline or whatever. But basically whenever LO is doing something they know they shouldn't be doing and something has be done to teach them not to do that anymore, whatever you want to call that, when do you start doing that?
DD is almost a year old and I know that she 100% knows what 'no' and 'stop' means. She knows when she is doing something she isn't supposed to do. Since she is still a baby of course we do redirecting and pretty much just removing her from the situation, and saying stuff like, "No, we don't hit the kitty. That hurts." You know, to explain it to her or whatever. Which is fine for now. But when do you move on from that? We aren't 100% sure what to do, we are kind of discussing things together right now about what to do when that time comes.
At her daycare they pretty much do this until they are at age 3 and then they do 'time out' where they make the kid sit in the corner or whatever. Until age 3 its all redirecting. Which is fine with me still but I'm just wondering what you guys do. Some of my family heard that and they were like, "3 years old! That's a little old don't you think?" And I just didn't know what to say. Then again I come from a long line of spankers so I don't know.
What do you think?
Re: Discipline, Punishment, Whatever You Call It, When To Start? Or not?
Generally our "time outs" with our 2 1/2 yr old are more about giving myself a moment to calm down. Or the space to attend to DD2 without her sister yelling at her while she's trying to settle to sleep etc.
I'm exploring the idea of no punishment, and so am using this time when it's really about redirection and explanation to read up and try out different things. I'm not sure I 100% buy this philosophy but it interests me. (actually as an aside does anyone have any good books/resources to read?)
I'm looking at 3 as a guideline for using timeouts if we decide to go that route.
Elizabeth 5yrs old Jane 3yrs old
That is true. I am wondering about that myself. Its such a grey area and I suppose its also probably different for each child.
This has nothing to do with anything you wrote but I absolutely love both your girls' names!
I haven't read much on this subject because there are so many different ones that I have no idea where I would even begin so I'd be interested in what you guys are reading and recommend as well.
We use positive discipline in our home. It uses natural/logical consequences instead of punishment.
Here's more info on how to implement it with a young toddler:
www.ahaparenting.com
Ditto PP - discipline and punishment are frequently used interchangeably by people, but are not the same. Punishment is about inflicting harm, whether physical - i.e. a slap on the wrist/spanking or emotional - i.e. separation/verbal chastising, in an attempt to encourage behavior modification. Disciplining a child is teaching them, and it involves no harm to the child although they may not always be happy.
Redirection/distraction isn't really either, it's a tool you can use to help protect your child, avoid tantrums, etc. but it doesn't actually teach anything per se, unless you accompany it with an explanation, and it doesn't punish her for an inappropriate behavior. But I'd argue that a toddler doesn't need to be punished for hitting the cat - she's not doing that because she wants to hurt the kitty, she just doesn't know how to pet a cat, or that the cat can be hurt at all. I think PP had a great example of positive discipline, show the child how to appropriately pet the cat.
I'd also like to point out that your LO reacting to "no" or "stop" is not the same as understanding what those words mean in the way an adult or older child does. Abstract concepts, like "don't hit" aren't understood by toddlers. Think of how often people report things like, they will ask their child "do you want a cookie?" and the child shouts "NO!" but the kid actually wants the cookie. They understand no is a powerful word, but don't grasp the true meaning.
It's easy to forget, but children are not just little adults. They do not think the same way we do. After all, newborns don't even realize they are a separate person from their mother. They are born without any understanding of how the world works or that other people/animals have feelings. That's why toddlers do the things they do - they are learning about their world. It's up to us to teach them empathy.
And ditto PP - if your family believes spanking is the only way to teach a child then it's probably best to avoid these conversations all together unless you're up for a discussion (or debate) and probably hurt feelings because it is often taken as a personal insult when we parent differently than our parents did.
I would call it "education." You are educating your child to behave appropriately and responsibly, and also teaching her what happens when her actions aren't appropriate. Education isn't just for schools!
That being said, I don't entirely agree with some of the PP's on here about how we should educate positively. For instance, it is a good start to teach DD how to nicely pet the kitty, but should she continue to hit the kitty, I would separate her from the cat (poor cat! It has rights too!) every time she hits it. You can't allow your kid to beat on an animal because "she doesn't know better." Jumping on furniture? Yes, explain how climbing can lead to danger, etc., teach them how to use the furniture nicely, but also if the behaviour persists, keep the kid away from the furniture every time they climb/jump on it. Unlike others, I think artificially putting logical consequences in place is sometimes ok. After all, we have all of the life experience, and it is our job to help pass that on to our kids. Also, young children are much more capable of understanding social norms, rules and "cause and effect" than a lot of people think.
I've read this in several places. My best friend's LO is a year old. She definitely recognizes the word "no" or "stop" but logically she really has no idea what it means.
At any age, I think it's important to recognize and deal with children within what they can developmentally understand. You can get in the habit of using words like "We don't hit the kitty. That hurts the kitty," with the understanding that a toddler still might not "get it." My mom tells the 2.5 year old she nannies for "that behavior was not appropriate." But I'm pretty sure the little girl has no idea what "appropriate" means. She can clearly tell that her caregiver is upset/disappointed with her, but she doesn't really have the tools to fix it or prevent it from happening in the future.
I've had the Positive Discipline series recommended to me by a number of AP bumpies and others as well. So far, I've found it really helpful.
Well I don't know that anyone was suggesting she allow the child to continue hitting the cat. I think that's the point - the child shouldn't hit the cat and needs to be taught how to appropriately interact with the animal since they live together. I would hope it's obvious that you should take either the child or cat away if she keeps whacking him.
However, punishing her for "bad" behavior isn't necessary. You can recognize that a 1yr old isn't acting out when she hits the cat, but still deal with the unacceptable behavior.
Things like setting up a safe environment (such as keeping a kid who loves to climb away from unsafe furniture) is another tool to use in maintaining a positive discipline environment.
I'm not sure what you mean by "young children" but I was gearing my thoughts towards the OP's LO's age of 1yr. I don't think that age child understands social norms, rules, etc. in the same way an adult does.
I really like this thought process. We are struggling with our 2+ year old, and we have a newborn to boot. We have used time out, as others have said, more to calm ourselves down. T/O always ends with an explanation, an apology, and hugs/kisses.
Our sons are 15 months apart. When DS1 was about 2 years old, maybe a little bit before, we started doing time-outs in a chair just for a minute per age. It was after three warnings for doing something not acceptable and after being told that such behavior was unacceptable.
DS2 also started getting the minute/age time out right before he turned 2. After said warnings.
After time outs, the we talk to our kids about why they were on time out and what a better solution would be, have them repeat it back to us (if they are capable at that age) and then they have to say sorry to the other person involved (usually this is between siblings, but we have done this at a park before as well.)
Most recently we have switched to warnings, and then counting 5 to 1 enough for the kids to understand that if they don't fix their behavior/start listening, that they then will have to face a punishment (time out). Our kids are now 3 and 4 years old.
I saw the books that PP posted about, I might look into those!! Thanks for the referrals ladies. We are just trying our best, every one of us!