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Pre-School and Daycare
mavs_girl07
member
Is perseveration normal at this age?
mavs_girl07
member
DD has always been normal or even above-average in her development. She does well socially and is extremely verbal, always has been. However, we noticed around age 2 she started getting stuck on repeating the same phrase over and over. One time we were on a long road trip and she said "I wanna go home, I wanna go home" over and over. DH and I counted, and no joke she said it over 200 times. It became a game for us to count how many times she would say it. No matter what we said or did, we couldn't get her off of saying it. She never did this with actions, just with phrases. And we didn't see it a lot, but often enough that we wondered aloud to each other why she did it.
That behavior had kind of disappeared, but out of nowhere it reappeared today and it happened 4 times just today. This morning she accidentally ran into DS, so I warned her (not sternly, just casually) to be careful and she said "I'm sorry. I'm sorry! I didn't mean to I said I'm sorry! I won't do it again! I'm sorry" over and over. As it went on she got more and more upset. She did this the entire 20min drive to preschool. I was very non-chalant with her and said "It's okay, sweetie. You're okay and your brother's okay, so no problem! Thanks for saying sorry" but it was like she didn't hear me and she continued "But I said I'm sorry!! I'm sorry! I didn't mean to!!!" and got more and more upset. It was incredibly frustrating.
She did it again this afternoon. She couldn't get her shoes on right and threw a fit instead of asking for help, so I reminded her like we always do "Well I'll be happy to help when you ask for help the right way, instead of throwing a fit" and it started again. "I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to, I'm sorry, But I"m saying sorry." This time it went on for 45mins. I tried being positive and light-hearted, reminding her that it was okay, I understood what she was telling me, and I reassured her she was not in trouble. Didn't work. I tried ignoring it. I tried to divert her attention to other topics. I tried being stern with her. No matter what I said, it was like she wasn't hearing me and just continued repeating it over and over and getting more and more upset, until eventually she was in a total meltdown.
DH saw her do it again at dinner tonight and was kinda freaked out about it, and now he thinks there's something mentally wrong with her. Thoughts or experiences? Sorry this got so long...
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Re: Is perseveration normal at this age?
First, I wouldn't have her evaluated after one bad day but if the behavior continues then I would. Second, it seems simple and silly but did you say: "I forgive you." DD was learning about saying sorry and accepting a friend's apology at preschool not too long ago. While she didn't continually repeat I'm sorry she went through a phase where she needed reassurance that I forgave her. Nothing other than the words "I forgive you" calmed her down.
Lastly, we drove to a petting zoo this spring. DD brought her Dora backpack with the attached Dora map. I would guess that in the 45 minute drive DD said she "I'm checking the map to see if you are going the right way. You are going the right way Daddy. Good job." 200 times or more. I turned on the DVD player for her, pointed out cows, tractors, tried telling a story and nothing stopped her. It was so bad that on they way home we insisted that the backpack and map ride in the trunk. She hasn't been that bad since then and the forgiveness issue was more mild than what you described but at this point in time all things appear to be resolved.
You know, first and foremost, kids are really weird at this age.
My first developed CRAZY OCD issues at 3. The Ray-Barrone-food tapping, the must-come-in-the-door-I exited through, she would headspin and tantrum if the echo of our car door in a parking garage was interrupted by a horn or other car door slam. She couldn't wear matching socks and the darker one had to be on the left. Holy crap it was intense. Oh, and my timid one started slappiing me. DH and I both have a considerable amount of mental health issues in our families (mother's clinically depressed, my mom ADHD, we both have a 1/2 brother with bipolar disorder) and I was certain she was pathological. But it turns out, no, she was 3.
SO my gut says she is doing exactly what she needs to, developmentally. My DS had the TERRIBLE twos and bypassed this phase. DD#2 was a peach at 2 and is entering the crazy threes, I just think it's unavoidable.
Now for advice.
1. I actually think the I'm sorry is part toddler-induced OCD, part manipulation. My kids still repeat I'm sorry until I say "It's okay." They even prompt me on how to accept the apology. That is the need for order- the negative feelings her actions caused you can not be eradicated in HER mind until a certain sequence happens. As for manipulation, she has likely subconsciously learned that the melt-down changes your focus from the initial transgression. So here's what I would do. When she is not upset, sit her down and grab whatever's around and model a script:
"Clink. I'm sorry I bumped you, saucer, it was an accident. It's okay, mug, I'm not hurt. Let's have a hug." Then do it with the napkin and fork. Whatever is around. Then pretend to bump her and over exaggerate the script, and prompt her to respond. Then grab her arm and be silly and have her bonk the table, or you and prompt her to apologize. Praise the nice voice. Praise the saying it just once. And tell her, apologizing is nice. Repeating it is not. And Hugs are the best. Practice practice. Next time she oopses for real, remind her to use the "I'm sorry story," and as soon as you hug her, rush into a distraction and once she's doing something else, remind her- "Hey, remember when you spilled your milk, and you apologized?? That was cool- you said it once and we hugged! Great job." If she enters the flip out sequence- ignore it and patiently repeat what you want her to say. Do not let her behavior deviate YOUR plan. It may take longer, but if you are going to teach "aw man," or whatever, stick to your guns, stay calm and believe that she can do it.. If she is upset stick with her. If she is being stubborn, set her on a chair and tell her to let you know when she's ready for the I'm sorry story.
With my 4 year old I am now having her rectify the transgression. If she spills, "I'm sorry I spilled, Mommy, how can I help fix it," and that gives her control over her emotion of disappointment that something unexpected happened that she made her feel bad. My 3 year olds aren't ready for that.
I also think, especially at this "spongey" age, that you should label all your emotions- narrate them throughout the day. "Wow, II got a shower and dressed before 8:00, I feel accomplished. Oh Bummer I wanted to wear my yellow shirt with these jeans but it's in the laundry. That is a little disappointing, but that's okay, this shirt is pretty too, I'll do the laundry tomorrow so I can wear the yellow one later." That type of stuff. It is hard to narrate emotions, but every single event causes an emotional response but we are old and hardened and aren't aware of it. They are acutely aware because they don't have the knowledge and experience-bases to weather that, you know? Show her your feelings and narrate them, how you solve them.
I have found in work and my own kids, the use of scripts in situations that normally produce huge anxious, emotional responses is critical. I am no neurologist (I am only certain of the fact that the brain is somewhere in the skull), but I think the emotion response floods the reasoning and language parts at this age and in some disorders. SO the use of a rote script gives immediate access to solving the problem without requiring too much work in the brain. This is then reinforced as they learn that the words are more successful than meltdown and then eventually they learn to internalize that skill and (hopefully) respond to emotions more appropriately.
Okay. novel on hold. More to come if I think of it!
OP, we haven't had quite the issues you have had but I agree with pp that I would see if it happens more before getting her evaluated, and I think LoveEeyore's advice is great. One of my sons did have a lot of repetitive speech patterns and his SLP (who he saw for feeding therapy, not speech) gave us some suggestions to help move him away from those. A bit of a different issue than what your DD was doing though. Hopefully it's just normal 3 y/o quirks and I hope LE's suggestions help.
Macchiato- Aw Shucks!
Mavs-I've been thinking. I forgot to mention, you're not allowed to decide it doesn't work until you've given it a full week of ernest, consistent application. That is my general rule for any type of behavior intervention.
BUT I've decided if that doesn't work... I think in the apology example she is trying to get you to interact with you to get your approval before she is able to go on. My initial response in that type of control-seeking behavior is to swoop up all control and then have LO earn it back with replacing it with appropriate behavior- like above. But I think there is another option, similar but different.
Get down on her level and when she starts the repetitive phrases, ignore, that, but say "Sorry for what, "Mommy, I'm sorry for..." and let her finish, and praise celebrate when she finishes. Then Go back to the beginning, and have her say "Mommy I'm sorry for ___"Then engage her about what she did, why it was a poor choice.... what she might have done instead, etc. And praise her along the way, snuggle her once she gets the full apology out and is calm, even if yoiu're still discussing. As she gets used to this language, you should be able to give her the eye and just say "Mommy." to get her to collect herself. It is important to give ONLY the necessary verbal input when she's in that spin. So don't quiz her, tell her you love her and want to help her, or be frustrated. Calm even, neutral voice even if you have to repeat several times.
This is how I interrupt tantrums and break up sibling fights here. I do think the silly role play and script have a place, but woke up this morning and HAD to tell you this. Guess you were on my mind when I fell asleep-LOL.
Thanks for all the tips!! Maybe Friday was just a bad day for her, because she hasn't done it since then and has been acting perfectly fine. We were on eggshells with her yesterday, and each time she apologized for something I winced because I just knew the whole cycle would start all over again. But nope, it was fine- She said sorry for whatever it was she did, I said it's okay no problem!, and she went on like usual. Whew! So we'll just keep watching and see if it happens again. We've had a lot going on lately. DH has been traveling a ton for work, both kids have been sick, my parents visited last week...so maybe she was just feeling tired and overwhelmed and like she desperately needed to take control of something.
Thanks for the ideas, I'll definitely use them and keep you updated if it happens again!