Infertility Veterans

WTF update

We just got back from our WTF and as expected the doctor was very much "in the box" with her treatment plans and ideas. 

I explicitly asked about the e.tegrity test and DNA frag with DH's sperm.

In response to the e.tegrity she gave me some load about "it's not scientifically proven and it's like cutting a chunk out of a bike tire that's perfectly fine and then expecting it to function like it did before"... I should have said "so how's it substantially different from a pap smear?" but I didn't think about it until after we left. My husband said he could have formed a more intelligent answer himself. We both felt like she was just annoyed with things we were asking. 

I'm clearly not an MD or an RE, but I do think there can be way more to lining. It just makes logical sense. There has to be a reason that our great looking blasts, my great looking lining, and excellent hormone levels are still not giving us a great little bundle of joy. We've had 5 transfered. 

The frag tests she's clueless about or didn't want to deal with, but we're meeting with the urologist on Monday to discuss things, so we'll bring it up then.  

The only change we're going to be having is a down-reg protocol as opposed to antagonist. Since the RE is closed for a great part of this month it appears the soonest we'll cycle is immediately in early September if my cycle coincides.  

I'm beginning to think it's just the way medicine is run here, which totally stinks. We're tapping out our insurance coverage and then hopefully moving so we can start hacking away at Plan B, whatever that ends up being.

Everything I read about down-reg cycles makes it sound like hell and truthfully I'm just looking forward to finishing things up here and not feeling like a medical refugee. 

(Live in Europe) TTC since 1/2010

Re: WTF update

  • I'm sorry your WTF didn't give you the insight that you were hoping for, and that your RE wasn't willing/able to think outside the box.  Thinking of you (((hugs))).
    Me: 35 DH: 37 TTC since 4/2010
    DX: 6/9/2011: Azoo ICSI/IVF only option for biological child
    IVF #1: ER - 9/26 * ET - 10/1 * beta#1 10/13 - 140 * beta#2 10/17 - 477 * beta#3 10/20 - 1101
    1st u/s at 6w6d - one hb * 2nd u/s at 8w3d - no hb detected 11/10/11 * natural m/c 11/13/11
    FET #1 Jan/Feb 2012 - 3 delays - cancelled 2/13
    FET #1.2 - May/June 2012 - ET 6/6/* beta#1 6/15 - 95 * beta #2 6/19 - 322 * beta #3 6/22 - 940
    7/6 1st u/s @ 7 weeks - one beautiful hb - released from RE
    EDD 2/22/2013
    PAIF/SAIF/PGAL welcome
    imageimageimageimage
    BabyFruit Ticker
  • Ugh!  Sorry it did not get better answers.  It is so frustrating, it is the most expensive game of trial and error I have ever been involved in.  I am not familiar with the down-reg protocol but I hope it is what ends up working for you.

    Big hugs!  Hopefully Monday will be another piece of info that can help as you move forward!

    I am AMA and all tests on H came back normal
    3 failed IVF with OE and 2 failed frozen DE cycles
    Last fresh hail mary DE cycle starting Feb 2013
    PAIF/SAIF always welcome
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  • imagereb259:

    Ugh!  Sorry it did not get better answers.  It is so frustrating, it is the most expensive game of trial and error I have ever been involved in.  I am not familiar with the down-reg protocol but I hope it is what ends up working for you.

    Big hugs!  Hopefully Monday will be another piece of info that can help as you move forward!

    I think it's called long-lupron in the states. It involves nasal spray. Yuck! 

    I know they don't want to throw in too many new factors, tests, etc. but I do think medicine does need a little bit of creativity or progress never is made. It doesn't seem that many doctors are asking "Why?" or attempting to get to the root of things and instead throw drugs at any and every aliment.

    (Live in Europe) TTC since 1/2010
  • My first clinic called "long lupron" down regulation.  It's less "fun" than antagonist..but i didn't have problems with it...other than the fact that i had terrible embies that cycle.

    hummm, any dicussion of pgd?  If the blasts look great, as does lining, i agree that u need to get some answers before using up all of ur coverage.

    Good luck w the uro.  I truly believe they are the only ones that know at sperm, but i can appreciate a RE who admits they don't know.

    GL!

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  • I'm sorry it wasn't more helpful - I know how frustrating that is. Can you do PGD where you are? I would want to add that to the next cycle since you get 5-day blasts.
    TTC #1 since June 2010
    Me: 36, DH: 42
    Dx: DOR and MFI

    DH: low count + very low motility; hormones all normal; Sperm DNA Frag. test = poor to fair; male karyotyping normal
    Me: FSH 13.4 + AMH 0.26 + hypothyroidism; Scratch the hypothyrodism (?); Blood clotting and immune panel all negative; endometrial biopsy normal

    IVF #1 (MDLF - Jul/Aug 2011): BFN (9R, 5M, 3F with ICSI, 3dt of 1 10-cell grade 2, no frosties)
    IVF #2 (EP-antagonist - Sep/Oct 2011): BFN (6R, 4M, 3F w/ ICSI, 3dt of 1 6-cell, 1 7-cell, grade 4s, no frosties)
    DE IVF #1 (shared cycle - June 2012): c/p (6R, 6F w/ICSI, 3dt 1 8-cell grade A- and 1 7-cell grade A-; no frosties)
    DE IVF #2 (shared cycle with new donor - Nov/Dec/ 2012): - BFP!!!!! 12/14/12. U/S on 12/27 shows twins!!!!!

    SAIFW/PAIFW
  • Sorry your RE was less than helpful.  Hopefully the uro has some ideas on getting you the answers you need moving forward.
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  • I'm sorry you got no answers or even good suggestions on what to do next. Coverage is great but what good is it if they can't/won't delve into what the real problem is. Hugs.

    TTC #1 since 8/1/10; Me:41 and BRCA1+, DH:46
    DOR (FSH 24.3)/ terrible egg quality ; homozygous MTHFR c677t
    5 IUI's: 2/11 to 6/11 and 1/12= BFN
    OE IVF#1-4 8/11-6/12= all BFN
    DE IVF#1 11/12 bad embryos= BFN
    DE IVF #2 2/13 BFP/Beta hell: m/c 5w6d
    CFNBC 7 months, not doing well; decided on guarantee program at RBA w/frozen DE
    DE IVF #3 1/14  ET 4BB; BFP;M/C 5w1d, incomplete m/c; MVA extraction in ER 7w1d

    DE FET#1 ET 3/1714; BFP, beta 1 3/27= 197, beta 2 3/31= 1586, beta 3 4/7= 13879!!
    First u/s= Twins with HBs at 6w2d! We are Team Pink x 2!!

    K & K born 11/21/14 at 38wks 4 days

    imageimage

    SAIF/PAIF Welcome


    http://waitingforraintostop.wordpress.com

  • Your RE sounds like mine... Seems to me that after this many failures, it's time to explore some treatments and testing that you aren't trying.  Ugh!  So sorry Sad
    TTC #1 Since 4/2010, Cycle 30
    Positive for HLA-B27, I'm a mutant :p
    Testing - Me ok, gluten issue? DH - borderline count, low motility
    4/28/11 IUI#1 = BFP!(5/25), EDD 2/2/12 - m/c 5w3d
    7/3, 7/31, 9/25 - IUI#2-4=BFN
    IVF#1 - 1 blast = BFP!! (12/30), EDD 9/9/12, confirmed c/p 4w2d
    FET#1 3/2/12 - 2 blasts =BFP!! EDD 11/18/12, us#1 = twins! Confirmed m/c 5w6d
    4/20-surprise BFP and another c/p 4w2d
    FET#2 7/16/12 - 2 blasts = BFN
    FET#3 8/20/12 - 1 blast - BFP!! Beta #1-2=177, 354
    1st u/s 5w6d, one beautiful little HB :), 2nd u/s 146bpm
    baby girl born 5/10/13

    TTC#2 since 12/17/2014, Cycle 8
    Repeat Testing...FSH=12, AMH=3.8, AFC=28. 
    IUI#5 5/10/15- c/p?
    IVF#2 8/19/15 - cancelled due to cysts
    IVF#2 take two 10/2015 - 5 blasts frozen
    FET#4 12/11/2015 - BFN - 4 blasts remaining
    FET#5 2/18/16 - BFP!!!  Beta1-3, 126, 250, 745!!

    Image and video hosting by TinyPicLilypie Angel and Memorial tickers

    Tons of love and ((hugs)) to my IF sister NMscubagirl


  • I hope you get more assuring answers from the uro on Monday.  The WTF meeting is never a fun one...especially if you and the RE are not quite seeing eye to eye. 

    Fingers and toes are crossed that the down reg will be the answer to everything you have worked so hard for.  The down reg is the same as long lupron?   

    Big hugs and positive thoughts.

    Countless BFN(s)
    Moving to IVF

    IVF1 (ICSI): Long Lupron
    6R. 3F. 3DT. 8Cell 1Grade 2Embies. 1Frostie.
    Beta 1/22: 14 Beta 1/24: 24 Beta 1/26: 28
    Round One Result: Chemical Pregnancy

    Pressing Forward

    IVF2 (ICSI/AH/ACU): Microdose Lupron Flare
    13R. 11F. 5DT. 2TFR'ed. 1Frostie.
    Round Two Result 4/30: Harsh BFN

    FET. 2TFR'ed.
    Round Three Result 6/25: BFN
    Where do we go from here?

    Moving forward with CCRM in 2013
    ODWU revealed blocked tube(s). Lap 2/15.
    Bilateral Tubal Ligation. Stage IV Endo.
    Finally some (tough) answers.


    IVF3 (ICSI/CCS): Antagonist with EPP
    13R. We have 3 CCS Normal Embryos!


    Lupron Depot: May 2013 to August 2013
    Long awaited FET on 9/3. 2TFR'ed.
    BFP on FRER 5dp5dt: IN SHOCK!
    Beta1 9/10: 152.7! Beta2 9/12: 378! Beta3 9/14: 1224! 

    1st ultrasound 10/1: TWO beautiful heartbeats!  Overjoyed!

  • You're all so helpful. I appreciate it to no end. 

    Unfortunately PGD is forbidden where I am... another reason to get the heck out of here!

    It's insane that they are willing to let us go so far and then to put us on the hamster wheel cycle of treatment and they wonder why we have one of the lowest birthrates of a Western country.  

    (Live in Europe) TTC since 1/2010
  • (((hugs))) I'm sorry you didn't get better answers...
    imageimageimage

    TTC since March 2009 // Me and DH - 28
    Testing Summer/Fall 2010 - Unexplained IF
    IUIs #1-4 ~ Clomid/Ovidrel/TI/IUI ~ all BFNs
    IUI #5 ~ Femara/Ovidrel/TI/IUI ~ BFN
    IUIs #6-9 ~ Research Study Meds/Pregnyl/TI/IUI ~ all BFNs
    IVF Consultation, More Testing
    Diagnostic Cycle ~ Mucinex/Progesterone/TI ~ BFN
    IVF #1 ~ Menopur/Bravelle/Ganirelix/Novarel/Progesterone/Lupron
    7R, 6F // 2 transferred // 3 frosties ~ BFN
    FET #1 ~ Estrace/PIO/Lupron
    3 thawed // 2 transferred // 1 lost // no more frosties ~ BFP!!
    Beta #1 - 456 // Beta #2 - 1176 // Beta #3 - 2933 // Beta #4 - 6753
    EDD: May 16, 2013
    Threatened MC at 6w2d
    Bedrest for SCH // 6w2d through 10w1d
    Elevated TSH and Lazy Thyroid DX @ 10w - Started Synthroid
    Finally released from RE at 13w
    Charles Everett ~ Born 5/20/2013

    Baby Birthday Ticker Ticker


    ~~ My IF Blog ~~ 

  • Israel is the same way. The awesome, amazing thing about the system is socialized govt-funded IVF for those who meet the criteria but it definitely gives way to a certain mentality. The mentality there was always very much the brute force approach of "just do another IVF!". I felt like they were quite dismissive of further testing/thinking outside of the box because the stakes were lower in some sense if any one cycle failed since almost no one is paying totally OOP.

    Now that we are in Canada and going to be paying 100% OOP for IVF, we are contemplating further testing but I totally get how frustrating it can be when the only thing they recommend seems to be just blindly doing the same thing over & over hoping for a different outcome (FWIW, I think there is some logic to the brute force philosophy, but as the patient it can become totally demoralizing and frustrating).

    IUIs #1-3 (1x unmedicated, 2x Clomid) = 2 BFNs, 1 m/c at 7w3d
    IUIs #4-6 (injects) = 3 BFNs
    IVF #1 = BFN
    FET #1 = BFN
    FET #2 = BFN
    IVF #2 = BFP, b/g twins lost at 20w due to partial abruption/PPROM
    IVF #3 = c/p 5w2d
    Long-shot Clomid/Prednisone cycle before next IVF = BFP, our beautiful, healthy girl born 6/26/13!
    ~~
    TTC again March 2014
    FET #3 - May/June 2014
    -
    all embryos arrested before xfer - back to the drawing board...
    IVF #4 - July/August 2014 
    beta 1 (11dp3dt) 220, beta 2 (13dp3dt) 671, beta 3 (19dp3dt) 10762
  • I am so sorry you didn't get any answers and how frustrating it is. My RE is the same way. Always says I am wasting my time because we had a "successful" cycle (which by the way makes me want to cry) - but what about our two unsuccessful? He says it is numbers game.
    TTC 1/2010 DH Dx - Azoospermia 2/2011
    Hysteroscopy 3/2011 2 Polyps removed 4/2011
    DH on Clomid / Arimidex to address hormonal issues - Sperm found July 2011!
    IVF #1 September 2011 - ER 9/8/2011- 8R, 5M - icsi - 1 made it to transfer - BFFN :-(
    IVF #2 Lucky November 2011 - ER 11/25/2011 - 15 eggs!, 13 mature, 10 fertilized with isci - 7 made it to transfer! Transferred 1 - 8 cell and 2 - 7 cell. BFP!!!!
    1st U/S - Twins! 2nd U/S - 3 heartbeats!!! - HOLY COW!!!
    Prayers for our take home babies!
    2 babies born on 3/27/12 and lost. Last baby born on 3/29/12 and lost at 20 weeks.
    My angels grew wings shortly after birth.
    Ahava Raisel, Matisyahu Nissim & Zev Chaim - Mommy and Daddy will always love you.
    IVF #3 July 2012 - ER 7/17/2012 - 10 R. 5 F. 4 made it to ET
    Transferred 2 on 7/20/2012 no snow babies :-(
    Beta on 7/31/2012 = BFMFN
    A miracle gift expected to come to us through adoption around 9/2012
    Baby girl adopted - Birth Mother changed her mind and took the baby back
    IVF #4 October 2012 - New RE. Doing PGD Testing. 8 R, 7F, 2 made it to 5 day blast for PDG testing. Both Normal (Thank you G-d!!!) 1 boy and 1 girl
    transferred one beautiful 5day blast (girl)
    Please G-d the almighty one - let this be our take home baby!
    Beta #1 158, Beta #2 318, 1 Absolutely magnificent HB at 175! Thank you G-d!!!
    Baby Girl born August 5th. Thank you G-d for our precious miracle.
    AMA. PAIF & SAIF always welcome - I need all the prayers I can get!

    Lilypie Angel and Memorial tickers
  • imageMitzi Bishi:

    You're all so helpful. I appreciate it to no end. 

    Unfortunately PGD is forbidden where I am... another reason to get the heck out of here!

    It's insane that they are willing to let us go so far and then to put us on the hamster wheel cycle of treatment and they wonder why we have one of the lowest birthrates of a Western country.  

    Sorry, Mitzi.  Your RE's responses are beyond frustrating and not at all helpful.  Are you thinking about leaving where you are -- globally speaking, not just your clinic/RE?

    It's counterintuitive to try the same/similar approach while expecting different results.  I'm glad you're being a strong advocate for yourself.  Sounds like that is particularly crucial for you.  Big hugs.  I've been thinking a lot about you! 

    Baby girl Lila born 2013.
    Baby boy Henry born 2015.
    Expecting our capstone baby (boy) early March 2018.
  • imageAmCheri:
    imageMitzi Bishi:

    You're all so helpful. I appreciate it to no end. 

    Unfortunately PGD is forbidden where I am... another reason to get the heck out of here!

    It's insane that they are willing to let us go so far and then to put us on the hamster wheel cycle of treatment and they wonder why we have one of the lowest birthrates of a Western country.  

    Sorry, Mitzi.  Your RE's responses are beyond frustrating and not at all helpful.  Are you thinking about leaving where you are -- globally speaking, not just your clinic/RE?

    It's counterintuitive to try the same/similar approach while expecting different results.  I'm glad you're being a strong advocate for yourself.  Sounds like that is particularly crucial for you.  Big hugs.  I've been thinking a lot about you! 

    We are planning to move internationally within the next year. Right now the US is topping the list...we'll see how that ends up. It's difficult to schedule the last IVF with the uncertainty of how long we'll be here, but that means the sooner the better. 
    (Live in Europe) TTC since 1/2010
  • imageMitzi Bishi:

    You're all so helpful. I appreciate it to no end. 

    Unfortunately PGD is forbidden where I am... another reason to get the heck out of here!

    It's insane that they are willing to let us go so far and then to put us on the hamster wheel cycle of treatment and they wonder why we have one of the lowest birthrates of a Western country.  

    How right you are. I am so sorry that you feel like you are chasing your tail. IVF is equal parts science and art. The art and creativity is completely missing. If you dont fit in the box that they are comfortable treating, too bad for you. They wont adjust. It is constantly shocking to me how behind reproductive medicine is in german speaking countries.  Insane! 

    Hang in there sweetie. Glad you will be cycling soon. 

    imageimage

    TTC#1 since October 2010

    "The jump is so frightening between where I am and where I want to be...because of all I may become I will close my eyes and leap." Mary Anne Radmacher

    Me:35, 5 major abdominal surgeries for Ulcerative colitis, failed j pouch, perm. Ileostomy DX-DOR & Tubal abnormalities/Extensive Adhesions from earlier surgeries.latest fsh -26 :(

    IVF 1- March 2012 Antagonist Protocol; BCP until March 3; AFC this cycle is 10 (Hooray); Start stims on March 9; ER on March 19- 2R; 2T (1 perfect 8 cell, 1 scrappy 3 cell); tubal infection from ER-hospitalized. Doomed! BFN

    Essure Procedure to treat bilateral hydrosalpinx; June 2012, wait 3 months for confirmation test.

    IVF2 (Egg Banking)-letrozole/antagonist cycle; June/July 2012 225iu merional + cetrotide; slow responder, Ovulated before ER. Unbelievable. Canceled remaining cycles with my eggs

    DE IVF in Brno, Czech. Approx. ET on Oct 6 CANCELLED-Essure didn't close both tubes-test again in 3 months

    IVF3-DE IVF ET on Dec 9, 2012 (decided to roll the dice no matter what!)

    2 perfect HB transferred; 8dp5dt beta:36; 10dp5dt beta 15; chemical pregnancy.

    Turning our hearts toward adoption

    DH:36, SA-perfect

    Married since July 11, 2009

    Fur baby Cairn Terrier

    SAIF/PAIF Welcome

  • Eh, are your doctor and my doctor related?  Mine liked to spew that whole "not scientifically proven" garbage our way too.  I tell you what, I don't care if whether it's scientifically proven or not if it yields success for me. 

    I'm so sorry that your RE won't think things out of the box with you.  I hope that your down-reg cycle isn't as bad as it seems and it yields different and better results for you.  Fingers crossed!

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  • big big (((hugs)))

    Hoping Monday's uro appointment goes well! 

    SAIFW
    TTC since 2008 dx PCOS & MFI
    Clomid/Femara no "O"
    IVF #1 BFN
    FET #1 cancelled for biopsy
    FET #1.2 c/p, July 2012 c/p
    IUI #1 & 1.2 canceled
    IVF #2 ER 12/1, Freeze all due to OHSS
    FET #2.1 cancelled due to DVT risk, FET #2.2 Jan 2013
    my blog
    image
  • I'm so sorry that you didn't get better answers from your RE!  FX that today's uro appt goes better.
    TTC since honeymoon in 9/2010
    Me: 39, Dx DOR (FSH = 10.5, AMH = 0.43, best AFC = 10), AMA
    MH: 37, Dx Obstructive Azoospermia, multiple successful sperm retrieval procedures

    1/2012: IVF/ICSI #1 Antagonist = cancelled d/t poor response to max stims
    2/2012: IVF/ICSI #2 MDLF (4R, 4M, 1F) = BFP, saw heartbeat, missed m/c 9w0d, D&E
    8/2012: IVF/ICSI #3 EPP/MDLF (7R, 2M, 1F) = BFN

    12/2012: (New RE) Operative hysteroscopy to remove scar tissue

    1/2013: IVF/ICSI #4 Low-dose stim/Antagonist (AFC=6); ER=1/26 (5R-couldn't access rt ovary, 5M, 4F), ET=1/29 (trans 3) = BFP!; 2/11 beta#1(13dp3dt)=2127, 2/13=3367; twin girls due 10/19/13

    PAIF/SAIF very welcome!

    <a href="http://www.thebump.com/?utm_source=ticker&utm_medium=HTML&utm_campaign=tickers" title="Pregnancy"><img src="http://global.thebump.com/tickers/tt16bf7d.aspx" alt=" BabyFruit Ticker" border="0"  /></a>
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