Cinderella Ate my WHAT?

JenniatONU

First things first, please find the Book club info post and post your recommendations for  August, and October!

Secondly, this is supposed to be a discussion. The questions below are are only a suggestion, to get you talking. Feel free to answer all or none of them, add your own points! 

 

1. What was your overall reaction to the book? Did you like it/not like it, why? 

2. Did this book change your own idea about the 'girly girl' mindset?

3. What surprised you about this book?

4. With the talk of this book, there is a popular pin floating around pinterest of a girl wearing a spiderman costume, with a red and black tutu added to it. The comment below reads 'Add a tutu to any boy costume and it becomes a girl costume!' What is your thoughts on this? Is superhero costumes only for boys? Are there certain costumes you wouldn't allow your boy or girl to wear, because of their gender OR sex?

(Here is a link: https://pinterest.com/pin/259519997247933460/ )

JenniatONU

I really enjoyed this book. I can't say I agree with it everything she says, and I do feel she goes a little overboard in her own life in forcing the girl stereotype from her own daughter.

I would have liked to see her explore more the boy side of this argument. Since she is 'shopping on both sides of the aisle' for her daughter, is she allowing her son to do the same? I did like that she questioned herself and her motives several times. It made her personal story seem a bit more relate-able. She's passionate about what she's doing but she doesn't pretend that it's the only option and that THIS IS WHAT WE ALL MUST DO!!!!

Random points from the book that I enjoyed was the discussion of Legos in a pink box. I hate to say that it is a smart move on their part, because we know kids are easily swayed. It's hard to tell a kid 'we already have that!' I know I personally love the color pink, and I am likely to buy the pink version. However, I don't think I would buy a second set just because my daughter needs her own, and hey, they have pink now! Wheee! 

I also loved the short discussion on American Girl Dolls. I really wish they were still what they used to be. I miss the focus on history, and less focus on accessories. I remember when there was sets that matched each book, but that was really it. When I was given the doll, I was taught she was not a doll we play with, and the need to keep it looking nice. It was hard for me to still think this way, when all of a sudden there were SUPER CUTE Halloween costumes for your doll.  I didn't care that my Victorian Era Samantha wouldn't know what a hippy was, I wanted the hippy costume!

Anywho, I have a lot more to say, but I will wait until some other people post. haha. ;-) I'm excited to see what other people thought!

mlangs

I liked the book, and I agree she goes to far in her own life, but isn't that what documentaries are? It is typically one extreme or the other... rarely do you find people in the middle of the road!

I am one of the older ladies on here so my thoughts might be a little different. I don't know the Disney Princesses as what they are now, but I was raised with Disney, and i think there are alot of valuable lessons to be taught. I never saw the princesses in the stories as weak, but then again they weren't all as available as they are now. I do not believe in keeping then from your child either... it didn't work for her in the book (even all the negativity about the princesses, her daughter still was interested, at least some). They are going to find out about it, they are going to want to play it, and will daydream about it.

I do not agree that every toy or everything out there pigeonholes girls into playing house or being a princess. the fact that there is a lego box that is pink almost proves it, yet also shows that girls should be all about girly girl pink at a young age. What does disturb me is the rate in which they are expected to grow up! Yes, I was still playing with Barbies when I was 12 (I still own almost all of my Barbie stuff, now at age 36) Barbies got me through some really rough patches as a child. I won't force them on my daughter, but of course I will be thrilled to share them with her, yet now I know to wait a bit before introducing them to her. I was 5 when I got my Dream house and everything else, but I can imagine I would have introduced them at 3, and been sad when they were tossed aside by 5.

Barbie was really all I could 100% identify with in this book as everything else was way past my time, and girls are NOTHING like we were when I was young.
I don't plan on an all pink lifestyle, or an all anything for her either... I am so eclectic in my tastes that I know she will be exposed to many things and be able to choose just like I did.

I have always said everything in moderation, and I believe that more so now.

After this book I am even more scared of the teenage years!

I too will stop for now.

 

BrittanyDoesDerby

I did enjoy this book quite a bit. I've always been riding the border on how much is really TOO much when it comes to this "girls will be girls" and "boys will be boys" mindset. I don't think I would ever force my daughter to NOT watch a Disney princess movie, but I definitely don't want her to feel like she HAS to love pink and the princesses just because she is girl.

To go off of Jenni's thing about the pink legos... Is it a great marketing scheme? Absolutely. Will I buy them for my daughter? As of now, I'm going to say no. I scoffed at those things since well before I got my BFP. I can't say whether I will change my mind if she ever gets to that stage where she starts to ask for things. I suppose I will see when I get there.

When I worked at a preschool, I was in a constant battle with the kids about how there are no "girl" colors or "boy" colors, there are just colors and it's fine to like whatever you want. The same with the costumes in the dress up area. If a boy wanted to wear one of the frilly dresses, then he could wear it. If a girl wanted to be a cowboy, then fine. I think it is ridiculous to box in children to one mindset or to allow them to play creatively as long as it fits in their gender role. If my daughter wanted to be superman for Halloween, of course I would let her.

I think it is really important for children to know that they are not bound by what society tells them they should be like. That being said, if a girl really loves dresses and dolls and going shopping, she shouldn't be told that is wrong either.

Did this book change how I felt? Not really. I would say this book reinforced some of my already held beliefs. It was really interesting to read the different statistics. I particularly enjoyed the bit near the end about girls involved in sports and how they tend to succeed more in life.

mlangs

Please tell me we aren't the only 3 that read this book?!?

BrittanyDoesDerby

mlangs:

Please tell me we aren't the only 3 that read this book?!?

I really hope not. I was looking forward to some good discussion. 

mlangs

Do you two think there really is a middle ground that you can teach with out having to push one or the other? Boys toys vs Girls toys? Is this a situation that even of you do a balance that it will all be negated by other parents that just go with the girly girl world?

I also thing this is a great book for parents of boys to read... it is mostly about girls yes, but gender stereotypes are a very real thing and seeing the extremes that are going on now is something all parents should at least be aware of.

BrittanyDoesDerby

mlangs:

Do you two think there really is a middle ground that you can teach with out having to push one or the other? Boys toys vs Girls toys? Is this a situation that even of you do a balance that it will all be negated by other parents that just go with the girly girl world?

I also thing this is a great book for parents of boys to read... it is mostly about girls yes, but gender stereotypes are a very real thing and seeing the extremes that are going on now is something all parents should at least be aware of.

As far as middle grounds go, I'm not sure. I think the best we can do as parents is try to see our kids for who they are and accept them for that. You can only push gender neutral toys on them for so long before gender neutral toys stop existing for their age group. I don't want to force anything on my child, but I want her to know that there is more to being a girl than dolls and frilly dresses. That she can be anything, and that her gender doesn't limit her abilities.

I think parents of boys should read this as well. Like you said, gender stereotypes are just as bad for boys. Even at a young age, some boys are so pressured to be athletic and strong and never cry. It makes me sad that some people still see males and females in such tiny limited boxes. 

elisabethb29

I also really enjoyed this book.  Such a quick read and just gave a lot of interesting things to think about. I don't think I would go to the extremes that this woman did to keep princess stuff out of her daughter's life, but I also wouldn't glamorize it either. 

I honestly don't know what else to say about the book at this point!  I did find it to be very intersting, and I'm glad I read it!

JenniatONU

BrittanyDoesDerby:

mlangs:

Do you two think there really is a middle ground that you can teach with out having to push one or the other? Boys toys vs Girls toys? Is this a situation that even of you do a balance that it will all be negated by other parents that just go with the girly girl world?

I also thing this is a great book for parents of boys to read... it is mostly about girls yes, but gender stereotypes are a very real thing and seeing the extremes that are going on now is something all parents should at least be aware of.

As far as middle grounds go, I'm not sure. I think the best we can do as parents is try to see our kids for who they are and accept them for that. You can only push gender neutral toys on them for so long before gender neutral toys stop existing for their age group. I don't want to force anything on my child, but I want her to know that there is more to being a girl than dolls and frilly dresses. That she can be anything, and that her gender doesn't limit her abilities.

I think parents of boys should read this as well. Like you said, gender stereotypes are just as bad for boys. Even at a young age, some boys are so pressured to be athletic and strong and never cry. It makes me sad that some people still see males and females in such tiny limited boxes. 

I fully agree with this, especially the bolded. I think pushing either way isn't the way to go. I know with this day and age we are pushing out of the stereotypical gender boxes, but at the same time, I do feel there needs to be some separation between the sexes. I don't know why I feel this way, but I do. I do want to teach my kid that almost every profession is gender neutral, and that they can have the same interests as well. I do want to try to teach my kid acceptance. Let them know that there is a view that dresses and pink are only for girls, but opinions are just that, an opinion.

This is why I liked this book so much, because it can be viewed in so many different ways. Look at our view of physical appearance in girls.  It's ok to not be skinny. Many people will think it's wrong and bad for you to be overweight, just like a boy wearing a girls costume or vice versa. I really want my LO to feel comfortable being him/herself, and not feel ashamed because they think differently, EVEN if that means my little girl will only ever wear a cinderella dress.

JenniatONU

ANDPLUSALSO

I've been curious about this for awhile: Is this more of an Anti-Girly girl thing, or more Pro-Choice. Because sometimes I'm not sure what the real fight is.

Honestly, I see nothing wrong with a girl who is over the top pink, glitter, princess, etc. However, I'm not going to force that on my child, nor will I expect every girl to love pink and glitter. It's like saying I expect every boy to love trains.

Speaking of which, I don't know if this was discussed in the book, BUT I used to nanny for a family of two little girls. Their oldest who was about 2, LOVED Thomas the Tanke Engine. So they had to go to the boys side to buy her pajamas, and they thought that was so weird. I think it's very telling that even though we try to break certain boundaries, it still gives us 'this is weird' feeling.

BrittanyDoesDerby

JenniatONU:

ANDPLUSALSO

I've been curious about this for awhile: Is this more of an Anti-Girly girl thing, or more Pro-Choice. Because sometimes I'm not sure what the real fight is.

Honestly, I see nothing wrong with a girl who is over the top pink, glitter, princess, etc. However, I'm not going to force that on my child, nor will I expect every girl to love pink and glitter. It's like saying I expect every boy to love trains.

Speaking of which, I don't know if this was discussed in the book, BUT I used to nanny for a family of two little girls. Their oldest who was about 2, LOVED Thomas the Tanke Engine. So they had to go to the boys side to buy her pajamas, and they thought that was so weird. I think it's very telling that even though we try to break certain boundaries, it still gives us 'this is weird' feeling.

I think it feels weird going to the boys side to buy a girl something because no parent wants their kid to be teased. I think every parent wants their kid to be accepted by their peers, and a girl liking "boy" things is something different that might be called out by the other children. Also, it's been forced into so many people's ideals for so long that it is hard to break out of that mentality.

I agree, girls should not be forced to NOT like "girly" things just because they are matching up to the stereotype. I think there are always going to be girly girls. Genetically speaking, women are, in fact. made differently than men. It's important to embrace those differences but not force them on someone who wants to be something else. 

MrsT1108

Not book related at all, I did not read it.  But I wanted to randomly say that while I was first reading this post title I read it "Cinderella Ate my WHAT?  MY ASS!"

Yea.

mlangs

I am in a way a girly girl, in the fact that I don't like to get dirty or sweaty. I like my pedicures, and cute shoes. However, growing up I played in the dirt, played sports, ect. I think I did too many activities as a child and wound up moving over to the more girly things because they were easier (yes I am lazy and always have been). I started with Soccer and T-ball, but moved to Twirling and Girl Scouts before I finally settled for Drama and FFA (see really I was ALL over the map and still am). Then again 30 years ago there wasn't everything in pink. I have almost no pictures of me as a child in all pink, but again this was the 70's and I just don't think pink was in at that time. my favorite color is purple as an adult, so I know my girl will have lots of purple (but my boy would have had purple stuff too). I do already have 1 footie nightgown in pink (it had giraffes on it and I LOVE giraffes).

I won't force girly things on her, just as I wouldn't force boy things on a boy. I won't ban anything in my house (unless there is a good reason and please keep in mind I am talking about age appropriate kids stuff).

I will probably even mess with things I don't normally mess with now (like on my grandmother's farm, dirty and gross things, like worms) just to show her that it is ok. I know my parents will teach her to fish (something I will still avoid) and if she is grossed out by it too, I will be A-ok with that (how could I not be... fish are so gross).

JenniatONU

mlangs:

I am in a way a girly girl, in the fact that I don't like to get dirty or sweaty. I like my pedicures, and cute shoes. However, growing up I played in the dirt, played sports, ect. I think I did too many activities as a child and wound up moving over to the more girly things because they were easier (yes I am lazy and always have been). I started with Soccer and T-ball, but moved to Twirling and Girl Scouts before I finally settled for Drama and FFA (see really I was ALL over the map and still am). Then again 30 years ago there wasn't everything in pink. I have almost no pictures of me as a child in all pink, but again this was the 70's and I just don't think pink was in at that time. my favorite color is purple as an adult, so I know my girl will have lots of purple (but my boy would have had purple stuff too). I do already have 1 footie nightgown in pink (it had giraffes on it and I LOVE giraffes).

I won't force girly things on her, just as I wouldn't force boy things on a boy. I won't ban anything in my house (unless there is a good reason and please keep in mind I am talking about age appropriate kids stuff).

I will probably even mess with things I don't normally mess with now (like on my grandmother's farm, dirty and gross things, like worms) just to show her that it is ok. I know my parents will teach her to fish (something I will still avoid) and if she is grossed out by it too, I will be A-ok with that (how could I not be... fish are so gross).

I am a girly girl. I did cheerleading, dance, gymnastics, ice-skating, played the flute, etc. Dresses, pink, fairies and princesses. I fricking HATE worms. UGHHH.

Yet I'm the one to teach my husband how to check the oil in his car. ;-) How about THEM APPLES! lol. 

 

BrittanyDoesDerby

Haha, I wasn't girly at all until my pre-teen years. Then I started to get really into fashion and shoes and hair and stuff. 

I was also a boy-crazy skateboarding tomboy, haha.

Today I wear more skirts and dresses than not, and I have seriously 50 pairs of shoes after cutting some free a few weeks ago. But, other than my prissy style, I'm way more comfortable talking about sports with dudes than hanging out with ladies. I play a pretty rough sport and I look pretty awesome while doing it

Like I said, just being comfortable with who you truly are is the most important thing  

 

RissKay

I didn't read the book, (but I'm going to!) but I wanted to chime in saying it SOUNDS LIKE I'll agree with it a lot. My sister is the "priss" and I was the "tomboy." Although, both of us would get down and dirty at any given time. Our favorite activities were playing Indians (we would "gather" things and make "meals" from the trees and bushes around us) or crawl around on all fours in our back yard pretending we were tigers. No joke, we did this til we were about 10. LOL. Anyway, I was never a fan of the color pink or frills or bows, nor am I now. That being said, I like to look nice, and have a cute outfit and love having my hair done (not that it happens very often... I usually buy a box and do it myself, straighten it, and call it done. ) and toes and finger nails painted (though, again, this only happens once in a while, but I like it when it's happened.) 

While we originally had wanted a girl, I was so nervous as to how I was going to handle it. I don't like pushing certain things on kids just because they "have" to be that way. I get sad when I walk through the girl (or boy) sections because either the girl stuff is all pink and frilly or the boy stuff is all sports geared. If my son loves sports, hell yeah I'll be at every game, practice, and trip to competitions/other games. However, if he doesn't, I'm not going to force him to try out. Maybe he'll be a gymnast, or a ubber nerd like his dad and make video games for a living. Maybe he'll love broadway like I do, or any number of things.

People ask me all the time if I would do "this" or "that" with my kids. Put them in "that" class or "this" class. Truth is, what they wanna do, I'll give them the chance. I was in TAE KWAN DO growing up, piano, horseback riding, and riding my bike/roller blading around the neighborhood.

Being a girl or a boy shouldn't be a determining factor in your personality. I'll totally let my daughter watch Disney princess movies, hell, my son probably will, cause he'll NEED to know where Mommy and Daddy got the song "Be Our Guest" from. But I'm not going to force anyone in either direction, nor will I keep them from the direction in which they want to go. 

qwerty777

I am way late to this game since I couldn't play while I was at my other job. I had/have a really hard time getting through this book, so I'm only about 50 pages in. Probably due to me not being a non-fic person, but that's where I'm at. From what I've read so far, she seems to try way too hard to make sure her daughter doesn't play into any stereotypes, and that annoys me. For me, personally, I don't plan on holding my kids to any stereotypes, but I also don't plan on keeping them away from them. When I worked at the child care center of a gym, I painted their nails all the time. I would do it for anyone who asked, a lot of them were boys. It made me really sad when the parents would pick them up and say they had to go wash it off before nail polish wasn't for boys, or the boys who would refuse because their parents would get mad. This is one thing I am very happy to agree with H on. We're decorating the nursery with dinosaurs, and at Target I found a bright pink dinosaur in the toy section. I mentioned how I don't care if it's a boy, I'm buying him pink stuff because it will make me happy. He told me to go for it, and he couldn't care less. I played with both barbies and regular Lego's growing up, because we all shared toys. I think my brother even played Barbies at some point, even if it was just tormenting them and ripping off their heads to piss my sister off. I helped. None of us really played into stereotypes while growing up, and my parents didn't keep us from them or push us to them, and I don't plan on doing it either.