Now I see why DH is freaked out

bigbear

This will be my last CIO post. Sorry I'm obsessed with it, but we just started this last night so it's all I think about.

DH, eventhough on board now, still seemed a bit nervous about it today when I talked to him.... He read an article that mentiones Dr Sears and couple of others who say that CIO is literally brain damaging to babies, causing detachment from parents, lower IQ, ADHD and other emotional and physical problems... That prolonged crying increases blood pressure in the brain etc...But what articles such as that one don't mention is that those studies are based on numbers of severely neglected and abused children! And some things that Dr Sears mentiones doesn't even have anything to do with CIO!

It's just so frustrating b/c I feel like especially first time parents are shying away from something that may be such a good solution for them. They are scared to death by false statements.

And I have one question: So what about colic babies? They cry for hours on end and there is nothing you can do about it. So what, they are all going to be dumber because of it, or not have a bond with their parents?? Seriously, it makes no sense....

Please know that I in no way criticize parents who DON'T support the CIO method. I was one of them at first because I thought you literally let your baby cry and ignore them until they stop crying and pass out from exhaustion. And most people still think that's how you do it... But those who do it "correctly" and listen to their babies ques and needs have told me nothing but positive outcomes. I'm a succesfull CIO graduate and I had a very strong bond with my mom, have no emotional issues, ADHD or anything else. And actually, based on a test we did in college in our psychology class, I supposedly have a above average IQ. How do you like them apples

 

anhg80

My husband read the same things!  And kept saying "but what if she has a poopy diaper?"  Obviously, we'll change the diaper.  It took him a long time to believe me that I was putting her down DROWSY, not when she was fully awake.  Even now that I'm re-doing CIO for naps (we backtracked), he can't stand the 12 minutes of her fussing/crying (it's not full on crying), and he'll keep saying that maybe she's not tired until she falls asleep.

But, he came around and realized that the info from Dr. Sears is way biased.  The more I hear about Dr. Sears, the less I like him, to be honest.  I think he's got some agenda that I don't quite get.  I have nothing against AP-ers.  Most would agree that we all do what feels best for our families.  Dr. Sears, on the other hand, seems to be actively lying to get parents to behave in one particular way.

CharlieTheUnicorn

FarmBoysWife:

anhg80:

My husband read the same things!  And kept saying "but what if she has a poopy diaper?"  Obviously, we'll change the diaper.  It took him a long time to believe me that I was putting her down DROWSY, not when she was fully awake.  Even now that I'm re-doing CIO for naps (we backtracked), he can't stand the 12 minutes of her fussing/crying (it's not full on crying), and he'll keep saying that maybe she's not tired until she falls asleep.

But, he came around and realized that the info from Dr. Sears is way biased.  The more I hear about Dr. Sears, the less I like him, to be honest.  I think he's got some agenda that I don't quite get.  I have nothing against AP-ers.  Most would agree that we all do what feels best for our families.  Dr. Sears, on the other hand, seems to be actively lying to get parents to behave in one particular way.

 

OK.. checking on your child and responding to their needs is NOT a bad thing.

There are other methods other than CIO. Obviously the way babies cry (especially I see how my son will stop breathing except to reload for the next roar) it would diminish the amount of  oxygen in the blood stream/Brain

Dr Sears =/= AP

And there is about a list of 5 other things that I like to say.. but am refraining.  

This. People who don't do CIO aren't being scared away by false statements, they read that article and chose to believe it and do what's best for their babies, while you read the article and didn't believe it and are doing what you think is best for your baby.  

fyrefairie

fyrefairie

OK but really this is ridic.  First of all, I will second FBW on the fact that those of is who don't CIO haven't been scared off by some evil genius.

this issue with CIO isn't the fact that they are crying, its the message sent by the parental lack of response.  Its not for me.  It may be for you.  And since infants of this age can't speak, we can't say for certain what they think of it all.  But please don't act like those of us who choose not to CIO are sheep blindly following some pied pediatric piper

PsyDr04

fyrefairie:

OK but really this is ridic.  First of all, I will second FBW on the fact that those of is who don't CIO haven't been scared off by some evil genius.

this issue with CIO isn't the fact that they are crying, its the message sent by the parental lack of response.  Its not for me.  It may be for you.  And since infants of this age can't speak, we can't say for certain what they think of it all.  But please don't act like those of us who choose not to CIO are sheep blindly following some pied pediatric piper

bigbear

PsyDr04:

fyrefairie:

OK but really this is ridic.  First of all, I will second FBW on the fact that those of is who don't CIO haven't been scared off by some evil genius.

this issue with CIO isn't the fact that they are crying, its the message sent by the parental lack of response.  Its not for me.  It may be for you.  And since infants of this age can't speak, we can't say for certain what they think of it all.  But please don't act like those of us who choose not to CIO are sheep blindly following some pied pediatric piper

I said in my previous post that CIO certainly isn't for everybody and I completely understand and get that. I also didn't mean to generalize that ALL parents who don't agree with CIO are dumb or uneducated. Sometimes CIO doesn't work. That is why I said that you shouldn't listen to others or care what they think but do what YOU think is best for you and your baby! YOU know the cry of YOUR baby so you certainly can't use one rule and apply to all! I completely and 100% understand and support that!

I was talking more about specifically my husband and a multiple moms I spoke to just yesterday about this whole thing. And what they were saying was unfortunately all based on false information. I also heard from two moms here at work that they literally left their LOs in the crib and walked out on the deck for 2 hours until the babies fell asleep and/or they stopped crying. I wanted to punch them both!!! That is NOT the right way to do it.

All I mean by this is that CIO sometimes does work but that there is generally and at least the majority of people I have talked to, a big misunderstanding about this method. And I really do believe that this board consists of obviously different mothers, who have different methods and parenting styles, all of which are educated choices and decisions based on what their babies need.

I am just so amazed at how well it worked for DD. And let me tell you, first night of CIO was never a horrible screaming fest. If it were, I wouldn't have gone through with it as YES letting your baby cry to the point of throwing up or not getting any air is WRONG. There are also different cries and I know my DDs when she's screaming b/c she really needs something. She cried harder TWICE the first night during the 10 minute wait, but it wasn't for the entire 10 minutes and it was a protest cry. Last night, she fell asleep without making a peep! Believe me, we've tried so many different things and nothing worked. Our DD had developed a bad habit, that is all. So if all else fails I don't think it's a bad thing to give it a try. That's all.

kmm2150

PsyDr04:

fyrefairie:

OK but really this is ridic.  First of all, I will second FBW on the fact that those of is who don't CIO haven't been scared off by some evil genius.

this issue with CIO isn't the fact that they are crying, its the message sent by the parental lack of response.  Its not for me.  It may be for you.  And since infants of this age can't speak, we can't say for certain what they think of it all.  But please don't act like those of us who choose not to CIO are sheep blindly following some pied pediatric piper

I agree with this - I haven't really read any of the arguments AGAINST CIO, but from reading lots and lots of information and posts about people who DO try it, wether Ferber or Weisbluth or whatever, I don't feel comfortable with it. I might feel differently if every. single. night. was a nightmare in getting DD to sleep, but the majority of nights, we do our routine, she nurses to sleep, or almost to sleep, goes in her crib and sleep for 4-6 hours, wakes up to eat once more, and goes right back to sleep. Sure, we've had some off nights, but usually I can attribute that to specific things, like her being majorly overtired, or when she was learning to roll over, or had an ear infection. Basically, I feel like her sleep is pretty good and, minus a step backward here and there, is continually improving and I don't feel like I need to do anything particular to speed up the improving. She'll sleep through the night when she's ready, as do all babies.

bigbear

kmm2150:

PsyDr04:

fyrefairie:

OK but really this is ridic.  First of all, I will second FBW on the fact that those of is who don't CIO haven't been scared off by some evil genius.

this issue with CIO isn't the fact that they are crying, its the message sent by the parental lack of response.  Its not for me.  It may be for you.  And since infants of this age can't speak, we can't say for certain what they think of it all.  But please don't act like those of us who choose not to CIO are sheep blindly following some pied pediatric piper

I agree with this - I haven't really read any of the arguments AGAINST CIO, but from reading lots and lots of information and posts about people who DO try it, wether Ferber or Weisbluth or whatever, I don't feel comfortable with it. I might feel differently if every. single. night. was a nightmare in getting DD to sleep, but the majority of nights, we do our routine, she nurses to sleep, or almost to sleep, goes in her crib and sleep for 4-6 hours, wakes up to eat once more, and goes right back to sleep. Sure, we've had some off nights, but usually I can attribute that to specific things, like her being majorly overtired, or when she was learning to roll over, or had an ear infection. Basically, I feel like her sleep is pretty good and, minus a step backward here and there, is continually improving and I don't feel like I need to do anything particular to speed up the improving. She'll sleep through the night when she's ready, as do all babies.

Well yeah if your baby does sleep ok most of the time, then why do it. We've been living on up to 3 hours of broken up sleep/night for 6 months now! (Except a short stretch 3-4 months. Since then it's been getting worse and worse and for over a month now DD sleeps for up to 3hrs max and then wakes up every 10-30 minutes starting at around midnight and wants to be rocked to sleep just so she'd wake up again as soon as you put her down or within the next few minutes. And we tried so many different things. We were desperate so we tried it. And we certainly didn't torture our girl, neglect her needs or anything like that. Again, it's what you are comfortable with and works for you. No judging or criticizing either way here!

PsyDr04

My agreeing with fryefairie is not a judgment to those who use CIO. If I was still only getting 3 hours of broken sleep a night, I would find a way to help LO sleep and that might involve using one of the CIO techniques. I just have reservations about it but recognize that it does work for a lot of people. 

anhg80

FarmBoysWife:

anhg80:

My husband read the same things!  And kept saying "but what if she has a poopy diaper?"  Obviously, we'll change the diaper.  It took him a long time to believe me that I was putting her down DROWSY, not when she was fully awake.  Even now that I'm re-doing CIO for naps (we backtracked), he can't stand the 12 minutes of her fussing/crying (it's not full on crying), and he'll keep saying that maybe she's not tired until she falls asleep.

But, he came around and realized that the info from Dr. Sears is way biased.  The more I hear about Dr. Sears, the less I like him, to be honest.  I think he's got some agenda that I don't quite get.  I have nothing against AP-ers.  Most would agree that we all do what feels best for our families.  Dr. Sears, on the other hand, seems to be actively lying to get parents to behave in one particular way.

 

OK.. checking on your child and responding to their needs is NOT a bad thing.

There are other methods other than CIO. Obviously the way babies cry (especially I see how my son will stop breathing except to reload for the next roar) it would diminish the amount of  oxygen in the blood stream/Brain

Dr Sears =/= AP

And there is about a list of 5 other things that I like to say.. but am refraining.  

I must not have been clear.  We did Ferber, so we were checking in on her and responding to her needs.  That was my point: obviously we would check her diaper, feed her, make sure she wasn't hurt, etc.  But if what she needed was sleep, she needed to figure out how to sooth herself.

And I had tried other methods besides CIO.  In fact, we hired a sleep specialist to help us, we were that desperate.  I could nurse, rock, shush/pat for hours and my daughter would not take a nap.  Wearing her was too stimulating, as was riding in the car.  We literally had days where the longest stretch of nap she took was 15 minutes.  The rest of the time, she was tired.  And therefore crying.  Doing CIO lead to much, much less crying.  

I know Dr. Sears =/= AP.  I wanted to be sure that everyone would know that I was not bad-mouthing AP-ers.  I like a lot of the ideas behind AP, especially the idea of mutual respect.  I was, in fact, bad-mouthing Dr. Sears.  As far as I know, he has spread misinformation about both CIO (see OP - b/c it is hard to rule out the impact of full-on neglect in the studies about crying, even if babies do hold their breath while crying) and vaccinations (downplaying the incidence of measles, mumps, and rubella in non-vaccinated populations).  He comes from a background that believes mothers should remain in the home, and I feel his misrepresentation of certain facts has been done to encourage women to stay home.  I could be wrong, but that more I learn about the man, the less I like.  

Jessiree

This is not a Dr. Sears article, and highlights the real dangers to babies and the caregiver-baby relationship when babies are allowed to cry it out.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/moral-landscapes/201112/dangers-crying-it-out?page=2

Even "correctly" implementing CIO methods require leaving your baby for some allotment of time while they desperately indicate that their greatest need in the entire world is YOU. I don't believe that dynamic can ever be healthy. CIO isn't teaching babies to sleep through the night, it is teaching your baby that you will not respond to them, leading them to stop requesting for you because they know you won't answer.

That is pretty d@mn heartbreaking, IMO.

bigbear

Well I don't know if that is just the flaw of mass-media and that written words sometimes come across differently than what we want them to sound like. So I'm not taking any of this personal LOL  but, it very much sounds like some of you are judging and implying that us mothers who did the CIO method are irresponsible, not carying, cruel and just doing it b/c we want to get some sleep, without regard of what's best for our babies or what they really need.

Not the case at all!

I for example said that my DD does NOT have acid reflux or anything like that which can sometimes be the reason for restless nights. She is not hungry, not wet and sometimes she wouldn't want to be held or rocked or anything else. She was a cranky frustrated baby who was tired but couldn't stay asleep. We tried different methods and we also did noise, no noise, cooler room, warmer room, swing, car seat, crib, pnp, raised mattress, flat mattress, bed sharing YOU NAME IT! The fact was, and this happens to a lot of babies, she didn't know how to go to sleep and/or stay asleep which is something a baby has to figure out. I spoke to my doc about this on multiple occasions and even he supported the CIO method. Because a baby that hardly ever sleeps is deprived of very important "development phase" as well! We are NOT bad mothers! I 1000% respect and support what others decide. My baby is NOT unhappy and has not given up on me as a carying mother b/c I don't tend to her needs at night. No, I just helped her figure it out. The "cruel" CIO of one night that consisted of 20 min crying in a 2 hours span (MUCH MUCH LESS crying than on any other given night I was trying to tend to her every 10-30 minutes). And guess what she's now sleeping 9-11 hours a night, has two 1+hr naps a day and a sweet, happy, cuddly, bubbly baby!

So call me a bad mother but I think I did the best thing I could for my baby. And again, of course you are entiteled to your opinion and CIO isn't for everybody but some of the comments here do kind of prove exactly my point. It is misunderstood and it is misunderstood how parents do it and go about it, how babies respond to it etc.

 

 

CharlieTheUnicorn

bigbear:

Well I don't know if that is just the flaw of mass-media and that written words sometimes come across differently than what we want them to sound like. So I'm not taking any of this personal LOL  but, it very much sounds like some of you are judging and implying that us mothers who did the CIO method are irresponsible, not carying, cruel and just doing it b/c we want to get some sleep, without regard of what's best for our babies or what they really need.

Not the case at all!

I for example said that my DD does NOT have acid reflux or anything like that which can sometimes be the reason for restless nights. She is not hungry, not wet and sometimes she wouldn't want to be held or rocked or anything else. She was a cranky frustrated baby who was tired but couldn't stay asleep. We tried different methods and we also did noise, no noise, cooler room, warmer room, swing, car seat, crib, pnp, raised mattress, flat mattress, bed sharing YOU NAME IT! The fact was, and this happens to a lot of babies, she didn't know how to go to sleep and/or stay asleep which is something a baby has to figure out. I spoke to my doc about this on multiple occasions and even he supported the CIO method. Because a baby that hardly ever sleeps is deprived of very important "development phase" as well! We are NOT bad mothers! I 1000% respect and support what others decide. My baby is NOT unhappy and has not given up on me as a carying mother b/c I don't tend to her needs at night. No, I just helped her figure it out. The "cruel" CIO of one night that consisted of 20 min crying in a 2 hours span (MUCH MUCH LESS crying than on any other given night I was trying to tend to her every 10-30 minutes). And guess what she's now sleeping 9-11 hours a night, has two 1+hr naps a day and a sweet, happy, cuddly, bubbly baby!

So call me a bad mother but I think I did the best thing I could for my baby. And again, of course you are entiteled to your opinion and CIO isn't for everybody but some of the comments here do kind of prove exactly my point. It is misunderstood and it is misunderstood how parents do it and go about it, how babies respond to it etc.

 

 

I don't agree with CIO. I don't think it's a kind method of helping babies sleep. I usually keep that to myself, and avoid CIO post because I realize what other parents do with their kids is their business. However, your OP made it sound like the only reason those of us who don't do CIO is because we are blind sheeple following an AP guru, and that if we would wake up and stop drinking the Kool-aid we would realize the CIO is the best thing since sliced raisin bread. I've never read an article by Dr. Sears, but I have researched CIO and the effects it has and I know it isn't something I'm willing to risk with my babe. Do I think mothers who do CIO are irresponsible, not caring, and cruel? No, just IMO the method is. I think the other mothers were trying to give their side of the story to defend themselves. 

bigbear

CharlieTheUnicorn:

bigbear:

Well I don't know if that is just the flaw of mass-media and that written words sometimes come across differently than what we want them to sound like. So I'm not taking any of this personal LOL  but, it very much sounds like some of you are judging and implying that us mothers who did the CIO method are irresponsible, not carying, cruel and just doing it b/c we want to get some sleep, without regard of what's best for our babies or what they really need.

Not the case at all!

I for example said that my DD does NOT have acid reflux or anything like that which can sometimes be the reason for restless nights. She is not hungry, not wet and sometimes she wouldn't want to be held or rocked or anything else. She was a cranky frustrated baby who was tired but couldn't stay asleep. We tried different methods and we also did noise, no noise, cooler room, warmer room, swing, car seat, crib, pnp, raised mattress, flat mattress, bed sharing YOU NAME IT! The fact was, and this happens to a lot of babies, she didn't know how to go to sleep and/or stay asleep which is something a baby has to figure out. I spoke to my doc about this on multiple occasions and even he supported the CIO method. Because a baby that hardly ever sleeps is deprived of very important "development phase" as well! We are NOT bad mothers! I 1000% respect and support what others decide. My baby is NOT unhappy and has not given up on me as a carying mother b/c I don't tend to her needs at night. No, I just helped her figure it out. The "cruel" CIO of one night that consisted of 20 min crying in a 2 hours span (MUCH MUCH LESS crying than on any other given night I was trying to tend to her every 10-30 minutes). And guess what she's now sleeping 9-11 hours a night, has two 1+hr naps a day and a sweet, happy, cuddly, bubbly baby!

So call me a bad mother but I think I did the best thing I could for my baby. And again, of course you are entiteled to your opinion and CIO isn't for everybody but some of the comments here do kind of prove exactly my point. It is misunderstood and it is misunderstood how parents do it and go about it, how babies respond to it etc.

 

 

I don't agree with CIO. I don't think it's a kind method of helping babies sleep. I usually keep that to myself, and avoid CIO post because I realize what other parents do with their kids is their business. However, your OP made it sound like the only reason those of us who don't do CIO is because we are blind sheeple following an AP guru, and that if we would wake up and stop drinking the Kool-aid we would realize the CIO is the best thing since sliced raisin bread. I've never read an article by Dr. Sears, but I have researched CIO and the effects it has and I know it isn't something I'm willing to risk with my babe. Do I think mothers who do CIO are irresponsible, not caring, and cruel? No, just IMO the method is. I think the other mothers were trying to give their side of the story to defend themselves. 

 

Nono, I repeatedly said that I support other decisions and DON'T think of mothers here as being naive, or sheep who didn't read the right info and are not doing the method because of it, or that they should/would had they read the "right" info.

I was talking about the IRL people including my husband who only read one thing and had made up their minds. A very biast article that is not even supported by true facts. And that also, unfortunately, more often than not, people who DO CIO don't do it "properly" or what properly means in my book. So looking at it that way, the method is misunderstood in a lot of ways. I also don't agree that parents should do it and force it as some babies don't respond to it which is #1 sign not to continue to do it. And to be perfectly honest with you, if my DD would have screamed her head off, I wouldn't have continued with it...

Again, at the end of the day nobody can tell any parent what they should do. Every situation and every baby is different.

This topic like many others will have scientific facts that go both ways. And like somebody here already said, I agree, you need to educate yourself, read pros and cons and see what you are swaying towards and what you are comfortable with.

It was just an observation that wasn't going towards anybody here

 

Jessiree

bigbear:

Well I don't know if that is just the flaw of mass-media and that written words sometimes come across differently than what we want them to sound like. So I'm not taking any of this personal LOL  but, it very much sounds like some of you are judging and implying that us mothers who did the CIO method are irresponsible, not carying, cruel and just doing it b/c we want to get some sleep, without regard of what's best for our babies or what they really need.

Not the case at all!

I for example said that my DD does NOT have acid reflux or anything like that which can sometimes be the reason for restless nights. She is not hungry, not wet and sometimes she wouldn't want to be held or rocked or anything else. She was a cranky frustrated baby who was tired but couldn't stay asleep. We tried different methods and we also did noise, no noise, cooler room, warmer room, swing, car seat, crib, pnp, raised mattress, flat mattress, bed sharing YOU NAME IT! The fact was, and this happens to a lot of babies, she didn't know how to go to sleep and/or stay asleep which is something a baby has to figure out. I spoke to my doc about this on multiple occasions and even he supported the CIO method. Because a baby that hardly ever sleeps is deprived of very important "development phase" as well! We are NOT bad mothers! I 1000% respect and support what others decide. My baby is NOT unhappy and has not given up on me as a carying mother b/c I don't tend to her needs at night. No, I just helped her figure it out. The "cruel" CIO of one night that consisted of 20 min crying in a 2 hours span (MUCH MUCH LESS crying than on any other given night I was trying to tend to her every 10-30 minutes). And guess what she's now sleeping 9-11 hours a night, has two 1+hr naps a day and a sweet, happy, cuddly, bubbly baby!

So call me a bad mother but I think I did the best thing I could for my baby. And again, of course you are entiteled to your opinion and CIO isn't for everybody but some of the comments here do kind of prove exactly my point. It is misunderstood and it is misunderstood how parents do it and go about it, how babies respond to it etc.

Did you ever consider that perhaps she just wanted to know you were there? She is very young, waking alone in a dark place and is looking for the people she loves - I consider that a valid reason for night wakings. You've never had a night when you woke up and your husband was in the kitchen or the bathroom and you were groggy and anxious in the dark for a second until you figured out where he was?  

I'm not calling you a bad mother, but don't call me a Dr. Sears loving sheep. I refuse to put my daughter into quiet despair because she figured out (and yes, it can take only 20 minutes) that the two most important people in the world to her aren't going to answer when she calls out for us. The research is valid: CIO is bad for babies. You've made your decisions, now live with them and don't come on the internet searching for validation and insulting those of us who have made different decisions from you. 

bigbear

Oh boy... If only you really read my post... It just seems like it's always the same people who are looking for drama and feel like every post is about them. Im very happy with my decision and am not looking for validation don't kid yourself . Drama is where you want it yo be and some here are just waiting to jump on something . Oh well can't please everyone. But you are the insulting ones.