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October 2011 Moms
Scramblersmom
member
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Since I have been bitchy in a few posts...
Scramblersmom
member
For starters I am probably one of the oldest people on this board. I am 39 and DH is in his 50's. We were raised a lot differently than many kids are now and we think we were raised very well. We were taught to be polite and that other people's feeling mattered. We were to be considerate of others always. We were loved very much but disciplined often. We knew that our parents ruled the roost and that there were severe consequences for disobeying. In public we were to be seen and not heard. We were not allowed to dictate anything to our parents. We did not demand things and we knew that we should be grateful for what we had. If the school called home we knew we were going to be in deep sh*!...my parents did not allow any excuses for anything. If we wanted "extra" things (like that fabulous leather coat I wanted so badly) we knew that we would have to get a job and earn the money ourselves to buy it. We knew the work involved to buy things and the value of that hard earned dollar. We did not interrupt adults in conversation unless it was an urgent or an emergency and then we would start by saying "excuse me...".
I just think that in general many of today's parents have gone way to far to the other side now. Countless times I have seen children behaving horribly and the parents doing nothing. Many are rude and completely lack manners. Many are very self centered and think that only what they want matters. they are bad citizens and lack social concepts and skills. A great example is my post about my friend's 2.75 yo kid that hit DS. The kid is completely out of control and the mother just lets him do as he wants all of the time. He is completely coddled and self-centered. She can't even make him change his shirt that he has been wearing day and night for a week. I just keep seeing this time and time again with so many kids that it makes me sick. Another example...I was eating at the cafeteria at the University when I overheard a kid tell his friends that his gaming console was stolen. He said he didn't really care because he knew his parents would just buy him another one. All I could think is WTF??!!! I could go on forever but I have ranted enough.
Anyway, does anyone have any thoughts, opinions, or comments on this? How are things different now than when you were raised? Are they better or worse and why do you think that? It would be interesting to hear everyone's opinion on this topic.
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Re: Since I have been bitchy in a few posts...
There's a theory that conservativism in society goes in pendulum swings. So you'll see eras like the early 1900s followed by a looser "anything goes" period like the 1920s. Same with the 1950s and the late 60s/early 70s.
The 1980s, which is when many of us were raised (I know - not you) was a more conservative period in our history. Economically and in child rearing. Many of our parents were the children of the stricter 1950s households. There was another swing in the 90s/00s away from that, again, probably based in part to children of parents born in the more lenient parenting age.
There are numerous complaints about "Generation Y" and their entitled attitude, lack of responsibility, etc. which I'm betting was said about children in other generations as well. (My son grew his hair long. He joined a commune, He doesn't want to work, just read poetry with his friends all day! ) (My daughter cut off all her hair and shortened her dresses to above her knees! She hangs out with her friends dancing all night long)
I do think that as parents, many of us are pushing away from that style of parenting that was used on the Gen Yers and swinging the pendulum back to a more conservative side of parenting.
This is a much more intelligent version of what I was saying lol. I also think that you hear about all these awful things kids are doing because they are putting it out there on Facebook, Youtube, texting because parents didn't see social media coming as hard as it did and people didn't realize how permanent things you put on the internet is. Parenting is going to eventually catch up with the technology on some level.
"Most of the important things in the world have been accomplished by people who have kept on trying when there seemed to be no hope at all." -- Dale Carnegie
"Our greatest weakness lies in giving up. The most certain way to succeed is always to try just one more time." --Thomas A. Edison
I had pretty much the same up bringing. I think my Dad might have been a little too extreme in his strictness. I'm 32 and my parents will be 64. There are plenty of well mannered kids out there. They just aren't making scenes.
I have the same sense of disgust towards excessively lax parenting that you do, Smit. In my own life, I've noticed it more with teenagers than with small children (but that's just because there aren't a lot of small children in my family at this point). People in my life let their teenagers run totally wild, adhering firmly to a "what can I do?" attitude. And then they wonder why their kids are 3 for 3 high school drop outs or why they keep getting pregnant when they can't afford to care for the kids they already have.
DH's mom was very lax with her parenting, IMO. My biggest beef was allowing him and his sister to sleepover with their girlfriends and boyfriends as teenagers. To me, having "sleepovers" at your mommy's house is totally inappropriate at any age. If you want to live with your boyfriend/girlfriend like you're a grown-up, get the hell out of your mama's house and support yourself like a grown up. Its totally disgusting to me! And no wonder SIL has had not one, not two, but three unplanned pregnancies! Needless to say, DH and I have had several conversations about what will and will NOT be happening when E gets older.
Anyway, I appreciate this post. Although I'm mainly complaining about teenagers, its a nice reminder that a lot of this BS starts when the kiddos are small.
I agree with everything Lopes and Blu said.
I think I am one of the youngest around these parts, 21, and I was raised basically the same way. Where my mom did buy things for me, I had to work for it. Whether that be extra chores, or babysitting my siblings. I was raised to be grateful for what I had and work for what I need first, and then on the wants in life.
My little CHD warrior. Born 9/29/11. Got his new heart 10/20/11
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I was raised in a fairly "different" way, as we basically lived on a commune and were homeschooled until I was 10. My parents were very strict, even though we lived in a very liberal setting. I didn't see a PG-13 movie until I was 13. We had chores - a lot of them. Homework got done before anything fun. Consequences were immediate and consistent. When I turned 15, my Mom explained to me that I had all the tools to live my life properly, and basically let go of the reins completely.
The Gen Y parenting drives me just as crazy as the rest of you. Just to play devil's advocate, though, I think genetics really do come in to play. Good parenting is critical, but I sort of believe there really is such a thing as a bad apple.
My brother and I are 20 months apart. We were parented in the same way. I was a straight A student, a good girl (for the most part), and have created a good, stable life.
Brother is a recovering addict who just served 3 years in prison and has 11 more years suspended. He was raised with firm boundaries, loving family and friends, nothing truly traumatic in his childhood. He's just...different.
Edited for spelling.
IVF # 1 ~ Antagonist ~ ER 1/27/11~ ET 1/30/11 ~ + HPT 7dp3dt
DD born med-free on 10/24/11
But this works against your theory - unless he's your step brother. Because if you're saying genetics is responsible, then the two of your would behave in the same manner no matter how you were raised.
Actually she would not be genetically identical to her brother. Although they may share many genes there are many that they would not share. I would argue that probably many things are a combination of genes and environment. I have enjoyed reading everyone's posts. I have seen issues with kids young and old that drive me nuts. However, I have seen many good kids too but unfortunately all of the bad ones get the attention (even if it is bad attention). Given my background, experience and age I just have a hard time with parents that will not discipline at all. I agree that things swing from one end to another dependent on the generation. I have also been very conservative with child-rearing even though I am pretty liberal IRL. I have caved on some things that are not so important but stand firm on things that are very important like good manners and behavior, working and studying hard, being a good citizen, etc. I also agree that every generation probably thinks that the new generation is causing a decline in civilization! LOL
Agreed. My main issue is with the whole package being shiit. I have my pet peeves and a few things I refuse to cave on...others not so much and I have caved. Parents have to do what works for them. I have had a lot of experience with completely feral kids too but again that is a whole package that is shiit. In my household I am big on starting potty training when they are around two, being decent eaters, safety and the other things above that I mentioned (being polite, a good citizen, etc.). A few things here and there, and caving on unimportant things to your family does not make a shiity kid.
Also, I generally never say never but on a handful of things the kids are in for a big battle from hell and I am pretty confident that they will lose!
They haven't won yet on those few things! 
This is me exactly. Lax parents, youngest of four, with much older siblings.
My mom definitely wasn't AP though. She was dealing with severe depression most of my childhood and I really don't remember her being around a whole lot when I was a kid. I think she just wasn't mentally healthy enough to be as involved with me as she wanted to be. I was a kind and polite kid, but I had very little respect for authority figures as a rule and there were no expectations of me to do well in school. As a child I wasn't openly defiant. How could I be? There weren't really any rules.
By the time I got to high school, there was no controlling me. I wouldn't come out of my room to go to school for days, weeks on end. I never had to sneak out of the house - I would just walk out the front door without a word except "I'll be back later." I ended up getting kicked out of high school and I spent all my time smoking pot, going to concerts, and crashing at my friends' houses without my mom having any idea where I was.
I wasn't really a "bad kid" in the sense that I wasn't rude to my mom, I didn't really break any rules, and I rarely lied to her. But I had zero respect for the idea that she was the parent and that I was a kid who needed to listen to her. I just didn't recognize that as the reality of our relationship. I'm sure that was incredibly frustrating for my mom, but I think she felt like it was her fault, so what could she really do? Eventually I got my life on track, and my relationship with my mom is actually really good.
I think personality plays a huge role. if I were a different kind of kid, I could have easily become an addict, gone to jail, or been a teenage mom. Plenty of people with my upbringing did become those people, just as plenty of kids with strict parents did, too.
DH and I often talk about how different things are now. We both grew up in neighborhoods where the kids all played outside as long as it was light outside. In our neighborhood now, there is hardly anyone ever outside. I guess it's not as safe as it was back in our day and when DS is older I will probably sit outside while he is out there, but still, I think it's important for kids to play outside. Also, the parents all drive their kids to the school bus stop and they sit in the car until the bus gets there (this only makes sense to me on a rainy day). If DS rides the bus one day, I may walk him to the bus stop, but we are not driving there!
When I was little, it was a treat to go to the store and be able to get a toy or an outfit. It was also a treat to get to eat at a restaurant. I think DH and I will have to work on this b/c I do not want a spoiled child, but both of us always just buy whatever we want.
As for manners, I was taught to respect your elders and I would never back-talk the way I see some kids do! I want to teach DS to be polite to not just adults, but to other kids too. Basically the "treat others as you would want to be treated" rule.
One last thing that is really important to me is to have dinner every night as a family at the table with no TV, phones, etc. We did this growing up and it was always our family time to talk. DH's dad worked nights and his mom isn't much of a cook so they never really did the family dinner thing and it's not as important to him. We're doing it though!
What's funny is that for people my age (I'm 28), I'm fairly sure that crimes against children peaked in the early 90s, when we were kids. Really, it's safer now than when we were kids. But perceptions have totally changed. When fewer parents let their kids roam the neighborhood to play, other parents are less willing too, since there are fewer kids out and about. It becomes this negative cycle.
I hope that when she gets older, we can live in a neighborhood like the one in which I grew up. Our street was a fairly isolated circle, with tons of kids who all went to school together. We were pretty free to ride our bikes or walk to each other's houses and just around the block all day doing not much together. It's a privilege to feel safe enough in your immediate neighborhood to give your kid that kind of freedom. And I think that kind of freedom is important.