Finally heard from a friend (long)

weddedwife

I need some opinions on this one ladies because I feel that I have lost all perspective on this relationship. I'd especially appreciate the input of ladies who are further out from their losses and have seen the dynamics of friendships change, though anyone is welcome to give their opinion.

I have a friend from hs I remained friends with over the years. We were bridesmaids in each others weddings and our first babies are 5 days apart. Our 2nd babies would've been about 6 weeks apart, but mine died.

We live 6 hours apart so we only see each other once, maybe twice a year. We would only talk on the phone occasionally and sporadically keep touch on fb.

After our loss, she messaged me on fb a few times wanting to make sure I was "ok" and telling me how much she's been thinking about us. I know she meant well but she said some things that were hurtful- namely, that "everything happens for a reason" and "maybe it was better that it happened sooner instead of later" (that one really blew my mind). At the time, I was too in shock to really realize how hurtful those words were. I responded kindly, and told her that while I was sad for me I was still happy for her and her baby, and didn't want her to feel guilty for updating me. They sent us a sympathy card.

Christmas rolled around and her family was in town visiting. She was 23 weeks at the time and I just didn't think I could handle seeing her then so I declined seeing them. They would've had to come over to our house and I would've been home alone based on the timing. I just didn't think I could do it. They bought us a memorial ornament for our Christmas tree and sent it to the house.

My birthday was at the end of January and she left me a message that day, cheerful and wishing me a happy birthday and saying she wanted to catch up. That was 3 months post-loss for me, I was in a really bad place and felt like "what do I have to catch up on? My baby died. That's all that's going on in my life". So I never called her back.

Then the silence set in. I knew her due date was approaching mid-April and I dreaded it. Her daughter was born and I found out via a group email complete with huge baby pictures. Both our babies were born at Kaiser so they all have the same blankets; in the photos her daughter was wrapped in the same blanket Nathaniel was wrapped in. I was crushed. I was so unprepared to open an email and see pictures. I did not respond to her email, though we did send them a card congratulating them about a month later. They did not send us a baby announcement, although I know they made them.

I did not hear anything from her until this past Monday. She emailed on DD's birthday talking about how she couldn't believe our kids are now 3. She said she wants to catch up and says she's always there for me but realizes I might just need time and space.

I just don't know how to respond to this email. I realize in typing this post that it seems she has reached out repeatedly and I haven't reciprocated. Maybe I'm being too hard on her. Maybe I have unrealistic expectations? It just felt like so much time passed between contact & she never mentions Nathaniel. I feel like, you say you are there for me, but where have you been?

Part of me was ready to just let this one go. Had she not emailed, I might never have contacted her. Since I don't see her or talk to her very much anyway, I was starting to reevaluate what I was really getting out of this relationship anyway? I get that people are uncomfortable and don't know what to say, but that's still not an excuse in my book. The internet is full of resources on what to say and do.

I have another friend who was due about a month after I was. She frequently sent me texts just saying "Thinking of you" and checked in on me a lot. When her son was born, she sent me a private message, acknowledged that she realized this might be hard for me, and said she'd be there whenever I was ready. I've talked on the phone with her, texted back & forth and finally was able to see her baby. We have sat and talked and she has asked questions and been willing to talk about Nathaniel, the delivery experience, everything. There just feels like such a stark contrast in the way these two friends were "there for me".

I suppose I pushed them both away to some extent. It was impossible not to. I just couldn't handle being around them and talking to them a lot knowing that they were pregnant and would go on to have healthy babies. The difference, I suppose, is that one friend was persistent in supporting me and I feel like the other just kind of gave up. But am I overreacting? How do I respond to this email? Do I just acknowledge the hurtful things this friend said at the beginning and that I feel abandoned? Or is that pointless now? Should I just take her reaching out now as her way of "supporting me"? I just have had so many emotions over this one that I can't think clearly on it.

lrichmond86

This is a tough one.  I actually stepped away from the computer for a while to give it some thought, because I've been in this situation myself.  I can definitely see why you would be hurt by the things that your friend said and that she only reached out to you a handful of times.  Most of mine and DH's friends never mention baby Gary and seem very uncomfortable when we do.  It really stings to think that my son is such a touchy subject for them. 

I think that maybe you need to consider her intentions in not contacting you more.  Was it because SHE felt uncomfortable and wanted to avoid it to make HERSELF feel better?  Or was she trying to do what she thought was right for YOU, to spare you what she may have thought would cause MORE pain?  Also, have you told this friend that you want to talk about Nathaniel?  I know it's a poor excuse that people use too much, but the honest truth is that unless you have been where we are, you really don't know what the right thing to do is.  Sure there are resources to help with that, but to be honest, before we lost our son, I don't think I would have thought to google "how to interact with friends who have lost their child".  

FWIW, for me if she was avoiding you and the subject of Nathaniel because it made her uncomfortable, then that was wrong and you have every right to end this relationship if you feel that you're not gaining anything from it.  She called herself your friend and should have been there for you regardless of how it made her feel.  On the other hand, if she truly thought that talking about Nathaniel with you of contacting you too often (as to be overbearing) would hurt you more, then maybe she's not such a bad friend.  Maybe have an honest chat with her?  Explain to her how you were feeling and find out why she wasn't around more than she was.  It might surprise her to hear that you want to see her and her new baby and to talk about your sweet Nathaniel.  Just my thoughts on this one.  I know it's a tricky thing to continue relationships after you lose your child, especially when you feel like no one understands your pain.  Best of luck on this!  Let us know how it turns out.  Hugs!!

Mrs.DeliaMarieP

**ticker warning** (so sorry I didn't do this sooner, I'd asked yesterday whether this was expected here, but didn't get any responses, so I left it alone since I know some people feel it just draws unnecessary attention) 

Let me start by saying that while I understand that you've been hurting, I do think you are overreacting, most especially to her initial comments.  While you took those comments as hurtful, she didn't mean them that way.  That is the token response from pretty much anybody, even though they don't realize how we take that response because they have never been there.

I think you are right that she has reached out repeatedly, and that you have shunned her, so she just doesn't know what to say and probably thinks you don't want to talk to her anymore.

I think it's time for you to accept the invitation to get together and catch up.  Tell her the things you've been feeling/thinking (whether you choose to point out those comments as hurtful is up to you-personally I would let them go knowing she didn't mean it in a hurtful way), tell her what has been going on in your life, and try to accept her living child in your life even though you lost yours.  Mention Nathaniel yourself and let her know that you are ready to talk about it, most likely she is waiting for your cue and doesn't want to bring it up first.  As for the pictures, they were excited, have never experienced a loss, and didn't realize that would hurt you so much. 

I've learned that people that have never experienced loss really do not understand its effects, and need to be "taught" by those of us who have.  I'm sure that once she realizes how painful it was for you, she will feel terrible about sending those pics your way.  I hope you will be able to reconcile this relationship, because she does sound like a good friend that is just at a loss as to what to say/do next.

Lbloom

(Siggy Warning)

 

I know what you're going through. I think the fact that she has tried to get in touch with you (even if she's not going about it in the best way) means that she does care about you and wants to keep you in her life. Maybe just tell acknowledge that you know she is trying to be a friend but gently tell her what her actions are doing to you emotionally.

I've found the best support from other friends who have also experienced losses (whether late or early). They've been the best about it, known what to say and how to say it and everything.

I've found that non-loss friends, while trying to be supportive and sympathetic of me, have simply not known what to say. I mean how could they? They just can't possibly know what we're going through. It sucks that people have to tiptoe around us, but baby loss is a tragedy that people overall can't understand.

One friend, invited me to her baby shower but she sent me an email before the invite came and asked me if it was okay. She was very gentle about it, admitting that she didn't know how I was feeling about it but she really wanted to keep me involved and part of the group. Even though I haven't seen that group in years I told her it was very nice of her to think of me and want to keep me included and the fact that she emailed to ask me first. I told her I had to decline on the shower, that I probably won't be able to go to things like that for a long time. I told her I was still grieving and that I would be for a long time. 

That's the thing, I must've been about 8 or 9 months out from my loss and it sometimes doesn't register with people how long it takes after this kind of loss to be "okay" with so many aspects of normal life. I'm over a year out and I still avoid certain situations, babies (I haven't held one since my angel) and looking at other people's baby pics.

But I gotta say, people that at least try to reach out to me are much better in my book than my countless amounts of friends who haven't said one word to me since right after my loss. Mentioning my angel is an extra bonus in my book.

Like I said, at least your friend is trying. You might have to school her a bit, tell her to lay off on the big "announcement emails" full of pics, tell her you want to talk about your angel and that hearing his name is music to your ears. We're all afraid people are going to forget our angels - most people don't know that.

FreyaWin2382

 (Siggy warning; this was a XP on PgAL and I just hit respond here, if this bothers anyone please please let me know and I can move it!).

 

 

First of all, I can completely understand your not wanting to be around her during her pregnancy and how getting an e-mail with a bunch of baby photos when you weren't expecting it would feel like a punch in the gut. My younger sister had a EDD exactly one month after what mine would have been (first loss) and I only saw her twice during her entire pregnancy. While I was still going through my second loss, my BFF (who knew) called to tell me that she was pregnant. While neither my sister or my friend wanted to hurt me, and I was happy for them, emotionally I was in a horrible place and devastated....I just couldn't be there for either one of them.

I was filled with grief, anger and depression. I was sad for my babies, angry that everyone around me seemed to have what I wanted (and both of them hadn't even "been trying") and depressed with the idea that I might never get to be a mom.

However....I realized that I was not being fair to either of them. They didn't get pregnant specifically to hurt me...and it wasn't their fault that my babies died....and I think that, as much as I understand your feelings, you need to realize this too. Yes, your friend said some things (such as "everything happens for a reason" and "at least it happened early") that any woman who has been through a loss knows cuts....but most people have no idea how it feels. I learned that those "gems" come out when people who love us have no idea what to say, but feel like they have to say something. It sounds like your friend has tried many times to reach out to you....and it does sound like you are punishing her. I am not trying to blame you, because I have been there and completely get it, but....is it really fair to her? One thing my therapist called me out on one day during our sessions when I expressed my anger with my friend was she said: "What exactly do you want from her? And have you told her?".

I hadn't. I had just expected both of them to "know" how to act or what to do.

My guess is that your friend has no idea what to say or do....or how her words might have hurt you. Sending you cards, getting you memorial ornaments, these are all attempts by her to reach out to you.  It sounds like you are holding on to this anger and resentment to punish her....but all you are really doing is punishing yourself. I think that you need to talk to her and tell her how you really have been feeling. While I understand where you are coming from (and know it's so hard and unfair), you need to come clean and let this anger go.

((HUGS)) to you...because I know how much this all just sucks. 

 

Petunia844

I inderstand, really I do, I have distanced myself from many friends with babies, not really on purpose...it just kind of worked out that way.  But, I do think she's really trying.  It sounds like she reached out repeatedly when you weren't ready for it, but took your silence as a clue that you needed space.  Now, she's hoping since you've had the space maybe you can reconnect.  What to do in response is up to you....but in my opinion she's doing her best.  If the friends I had distanced myself from reached out now I would I would see them I think.

Chocodoxies

(Siggy warning: posting from PGAL. If this offends anyone, please let me know and I will promptly move my post) 

Petunia844:

I inderstand, really I do, I have distanced myself from many friends with babies, not really on purpose...it just kind of worked out that way.  But, I do think she's really trying.  It sounds like she reached out repeatedly when you weren't ready for it, but took your silence as a clue that you needed space.  Now, she's hoping since you've had the space maybe you can reconnect.  What to do in response is up to you....but in my opinion she's doing her best.  If the friends I had distanced myself from reached out now I would I would see them I think.

 

This sounds pretty accurate to me. Her hurtful comments were made in an attempt to "say the right thing" and totally missing the mark. She has no idea what it is like to lose a baby and it sounds like she said the types of things that she thinks you wanted to hear. It also sounds like, after her comments, she read up on what to do and not do if your friend loses a child, and she followed that advice. She didn't push herself on you while she was pregnant and didn't hold it against you that you pulled away from her.  If you're ready, have a meet up and let her know that you have been in a bad place for quite some time. During the conversation at some point drop this line, "it can be so hurtful with some of the things that people say to comfort those who are grieving. I know they mean the best, but sometimes that loss of what to say leads to some painful comments".  This could open up a discussion in which you could let her know that her comments hurt you deeply and give her a chance to not only apologize and redeem herself, but learn some appropriate things to say in the future. 

Society is made up of people who don't talk about their losses. Go back to the 1800's and we sang about lost children at the communal piano in the living room. Today we stay silent, and watch as friendships fall to the wayside because of this silence. A meet up could create the opportunity to show her that you can forgive her, if she is truly sorry, and that she can learn from this how better to approach a loss for someone else.  

MrsRiceARoni

*Siggy Warning* 

 

I do think that you are overreacting and expecting too much. From what you've said about your friendship it sounds to me like she is attempting to contact you as much as you would have talked in the past. She has also tried several times to reach out to you with little to no response on your side, it sounds to me like she is being a really good friend trying for so long without any sucess. It's hard to compare the frequency with which she reaches out to you with how often your other friend is, she may be trying to give you space to heal and trying not to be too pushy while still reminding your periodically that she is still there. Everyone is going to react differently to your loss, based on their experiences in the past, it's not fair to directly compare them like you are.

Her comments, while painful are quite common statements made to parents who have experienced a loss from people who haven't. I don't believe that she said them to be hurtful, and if you never told her how you felt about the comments, it's hard to expect her to know there was anything arong with the comment. And as for her not mentioning your son is another common complaint amoung loss parents. I think for people who haven't had a loss, they are trying to be sensitive to your feelings and not knowing how you feel about talking about your son, she probably doesn't want to bring him up and risk upsetting your further. I know for me few people would ever mention Noah until I did. I have made a point in mentioning him often (when appropriate). The more I talk about him the more others realize it is ok to talk about him. Many people still don't bring him up very often but they are less shocked when I bring him up now and some feel that they can make reference to things like when I was pregnant, where they are abstractly mentioning him. This never would have been the case before I made it clear that I was comfortable with talking about him.

I would give your friend a little slack, it sounds like she is doing what she thinks is right in trying to be there for you. She may not be doing it in the manner that you think she should, so talk to her about it. Open up a conversation on what you've  needed from her and haven't felt you've gotten. If you want her to acknowledge your son, tell her. If you have a problem with the comments she said before let her know, that way she will have a chance to appologize for upsetting you and hopefully she will think of a different comment to make if anyone else she knows has a loss in the future. Long distance friendships require work, and if your not willing to put some in I guess than you'll just lose a friend if you are ok with that than so be it. But if her friendship does mean something to you, and I would think it would after all of these years you need to put some effort in as well. If you think in a few years you will regret throwing this friendship away I would say put a little effort in now while there is still a friendship to salvage. Your friendship may not be the same as it was before, and that's ok but if you do want to keep it your going to have to put some effort in as well, because someone will only try at a one sided relationship for so long before giving up on it.

weddedwife

Thanks for all the advice. I think you are all probably right that I am letting my emotions get in the way of this one. I will have to take some time drafting my response to her email so that I can be sure I'm saying what I want to say.

I'm not sure whether her distance was due to wanting to not hurt me or trying to protect herself; I'm sure it's a little of both. I agree with all of your responses, especially Lbloom who said that the friends who at least attempt to reach out are way better than the ones who just completely ignore it. I've got several of those as well, unfortunately. Those relationships likely won't survive. I guess the best thing to do is to try and salvage the ones that I think can.

I hate that we have to deal with this kind of awkwardness in relationships on top of losing our babies. I think people really have to clue how much this experience turns our whole lives upside down. I don't know about you guys, but for me the hardest part of this whole experience has been how it has changed every single one of my relationships. Every. Single. One.