tantrum help! please?

3003girl

Kiddo just turned two and has started to take tantrums to a whole new level. I'm fine with her freaking out if she doesn't get something she wants, or something like that. 

But, she has started this irrational spiral that frustrates me to no end. I'm working on staying calm, but it hits my buttons for some reason, and she is only doing it with me. I work from home and DH is a SAHD, so she was like this all day on Sunday and then all last night when I was with her.

So, an example would be - last night in the bath - I asked her if she was done and she said yes, so I let out the water. She started yelling no! so I put the plug back in. She started screaming. I asked her what she wanted and (I know she's not rational at this point) she started yelling stop, stop and trying to pull out the plug. I let her try to do what she wanted, but she seemed to be in this limbo with wanting the water in but wanting the plug out. I eventually took her out of the tub, kicking and screaming, and put her in her crib (sidecared to the bed) for a while. She kept yelling at me to go away, but then would yell for me to come back, but then want me to go away. at one point she wanted me to hold her and go away at the same time. I kind of just stood there while she screamed/cried and after a while she calmed down.

It happened again when I was trying to put underwear on her. I let her pick them out, but she wanted "monkey" underwear, which we do not even own, and the freak out ensued again. she wanted the pink, then didn't want the pink, but screamed if i tried to put them away, or hold them.

I just don't know if I should make a decision for her and let her freak out about it, or try to work with figuring out what she wants. FWIW, when she was doing it in the carseat on Sunday (she didn't want me to clip it, but didn't want to clip it herself, but also didn't want to get out) she screamed for 25 minutes while we drove and the only thing that calmed her down when we got to our destination was nursing. I felt so bad.  

Any advice would be helpful - she really did not tantrum much before this. 

I'm planning on finally reading the positive discipline books this week too...  

Swainb

It sounds like maybe she is overwhelmed at a having too much control. I'm just taking a shot in the dark, but from what you described she seems to be having these tantrums when you are giving her freedom to make choices. Maybe you should scale back a little on when she gets to have a choice? Like for example why did she even have the choice of getting out of her carseat or buckling it herself? I'm assuming you don't allow her to ride not in the carseat, so that shouldn't have been an option, and it's not safe for her to buckle her own carseat (what if she does it wrong?) And once she said yes to being done with the bath, you might not want to give her the option of changing her mind? I hope that was helpful!

danienross

I think we're going through something similar but not quite the same.  DD has had tantrums for awhile now but here lately she's having what I best describe of just episodes of hysteria.  We even took her to the doctor to make sure anything wasn't medically wrong that would cause these fits, that's how severe they can be.  After talking with her pedi we believe that the cause for her episodes is stress.  We're two months away from DH deploying and three months away from a new baby.  We feel she is sensing our stress but doesn't have the same ability to cope.  Her episodes have no predictable trigger and when she is having one she wants absolutely nothing to do with DH.

I agree with PPs though that maybe your DD is just too overwhelmed with choices.  Instead of asking "Do you want to get out?", maybe say "It is time to get out.  Do you want to pull the plug out or do you want me to do it?"  I take the same approach with getting in the car seat "I need you to get in the car seat so we can go bye-bye.  You can get in by yourself or mommy can help you."

3003girl

Yeah, the carseat was sort of an odd situation - we were at the park and she wanted to leave, even though we had more time. So I was giving her the option to get back out if she wanted too. She likes to clip the top clip, and place the bottoms ones in the buckle so I can push them in. I clip the bottom and then check the top and tighten it. She also puts her arms in the straps. We've been doing that for a while with no problems. 

It is definitely happening during transitions, but she seems to be fine at first, like with the tub, she wanted to get out, but once the process started she freaked. I will try to talk her through things, and I like the counting idea. She is really into counting to do things like jump - "1,2,3 jump!" so perhaps that will go well with doing other things. Now that I think about it, it probably is the transition, just a bit of a delayed reaction. 

She might be tired - she was on Sunday for sure, but I don't think she was on Monday. But, I get to spend time with her after work, so it is at the end of the day... I'll have to ask DH how her nap was yesterday. 

It's just hard to deal with the confusion of what the heck she wants because she doesn't seem to know. I think PP is right too, perhaps I am giving her too many choices up front, and I need to be telling her what we are doing instead of giving her choice...

neverblushed

Hi there! Lurker from school aged kids board.  Sorry this is long, but I wanted to give you as much detail as I reasonably could.

One of the wonderful things about AP is that parents learn to interpret their baby's signals and really become attuned to the baby's sleep, comfort, and feeding needs -- a truly wonderful thing.  The idea of letting baby take the lead works well.

But sometimes that "follow baby's lead" philosophy can create problems in certain situations when the baby becomes a toddler.  There's a really logical reason for this: toddlers are far more complicated than babies and they don't always know what they want or what's best for them.  They are faced with far more choices than an infant, but they are real rookies when it comes to dealing with decision-making.  They are in the process of developing the ability to even understand the nature of "choice" and successfully interpret their own feelings with regard to each choice, then express a preference.

So, if someone asks you, Mommy, if you're finished taking a bath, you may not consciously break it down like this, but you probably go through some sort of organized process of deciding several things:  have you completed everything you needed to do while in the tub?  are you still enjoying being in the tub or are you starting to become less comfortable here? are there things you need to do after you've gotten out?  And you certainly understand that by saying "yes, I'm done" you'll be giving up all the fun and comfort of the tub for whatever activity comes next, even if that activity is boring old bedtime.  And being an adult, you'll be able to predict what the next activity that will be and get mentally ready for it.  Also, you won't be confused about how that massive amount of water could possibly fit down the hole in the tub without sucking you down with it.

But your nearly 2 y/o DD may only think about one of those things at a time.  So when she says "yes" at first, but then sees you pulling the plug, she may change her mind about that.  And when you say, "but, sweetie, you said you were all done!" it will be impossible for her to articulate what's going on in her mind and why she only sort of meant "yes" when she said "yes."  Her yelling "stop, stop" might be the closest she could come to saying "Mommy, I don't really know what I want! I want to get out of the tub AND keep taking a bath!! And thinking about either possibility is making me upset!!

This is why the whole "follow the baby's lead" thing has to be modified when the child is a toddler.  Toddler's can't really be relied on to make the choices they need to make.  But I firmly believe there's a way to handle this phase that is really consistent with AP values. 

So, here's what you might try that worked for me with both of my kiddos.  I'll use the bath scenario as an example, but I modified this for almost every situation, and I'm sure you'll be able to apply the this strategy in many ways:

I can see that it's about time to wind up the bath and move on to pjs, story, sleepytime rituals, etc.  Because I'm so attuned to my child, I can see that she's basically done and ready to move on, but I know that the transition is going to be difficult, especially because it's the end of the day and she's tired.  So I say, "Bath is almost over and it's time to pick out a story!  But you have time to do 2 more things in the tub.  What two things would you like to do?  Ooh, you want to fill up your bottle and pour it out.  Fun choice!  That's one thing.  You get one more. This is your last thing until the next bath.  Take your time and think about it.  Okay, you'd like to use the squirting fish.  Fill him up!  Okay, give him a good squirt!  Alright!  That was the last thing.  Let's say goodbye to the tub.  (This sounds silly, but saying 'goodbye' to the activity seemed to really help my toddlers with transitions like this!)  Bye fish! See you later!  Bye cups!  Have fun sitting in the basket until next time!  Bye tub! I'll see you later!"  

While you're saying goodbye, help your toddler out of the tub.  Don't drain the tub until the child and the toys are out.  Seriously, that fear of going down the drain with the water can crop up out of nowhere, and you'll struggle with it until the day your child becomes rational enough to "get it" that the water can change shape to fit down, but that children can't. It's a very hard fear to cope with. Just save yourself the trouble.  Wrap up the toddler and move to the bedroom as efficiently as possible, staying focused on the positives of the next activity you're moving on to.

When I was able to use this strategy with my kids, I rarely had tantrums or meltdowns.  The key here is that you're giving the child control over aspects of the decision that the child can actually handle: what 2 activities to do before getting out of the tub.  You're also modeling how we make transitions from one activity to another during the day: we decide, we acknowledge what we're giving up, we stay focused on what's ahead.  Now, an older toddler will inevitably try to "cheat" by doing a third thing, or by negotiating for a new deal, etc.  You just have to be gentle but firm -- and keep a sense of humor!

In your OP, you said, "I just don't know if I should make a decision for her and let her freak out about it, or try to work with figuring out what she wants."  

You're committed to AP, so you are uncomfortable making a decision for her and just leaving her to freak out about it -- that probably seems "wrong" to you.  But you're also finding out that it's sometimes darn near impossible to "help her figure out what she wants."  That's the nature of toddlers!  

I feel like AP for toddlers (and even older kiddos!) means understanding what decisions and choices my children can reasonably handle, and using my knowledge of my children to help simplify the choices they have to make.  I also use my knowledge of my children to help them come to terms with the inevitable drawbacks of their choices. (Saying "bye" to the tub does mean you won't get to play in the water now, and that's sad, but with my help you are learning how to comfort yourself and handle your conflicted feelings about this transition!)

HTH! 

3003girl

Neverblush - that totally helps put things into perspective. Especially this:

"But you're also finding out that it's sometimes darn near impossible to "help her figure out what she wants."  That's the nature of toddlers!" 

I feel much better about things now - it's just another transition for me too - She is definitely forming her own opinions and feelings about what she is doing and wearing, and is asserting them, whereas before she was fine, mostly, with going along with our choices for her. I can see how giving her choices in things that might be overwhelming for her can be, well, overwhelming. 

Thank you so much for your time with your post!  

jaymiegerard

First of all, sorry!  That sounds really frustrating, and it's clear that you are trying to help her be calm, happy, and are encouraging her autonomy.

I read a book called Love and Logic Magic and they suggest giving two choices - no more than that - and that they be clear choices, and that you can live with both choices.  For example, "Would you like to eat carrots or peas for your vegetable?" or "Would you like to get out of the bath now, or would you like to get out in 3 minutes?"  "Do you want to pull the plug yourself or do you want me to pull it and we can watch the water go down together?" etc.

If your child doesn't answer in 10 seconds, you choose for them.

I hope that's helpful!  I know I can become paralyzed or frustrated when I have too many options.