I know this is crazy. For some reason, I'm still entertaining the thought. Please feel free to tell me that I've officially lost it.
We got the protocol that my RE wants to use for our last (and I mean final) IVF attempt before committing fully to DE. The protocol is long. It includes a full month of priming with testosterone, estrogen and progesterone. Stims are supplemented with clomid.
I've learned that we can't do a fresh transfer because the testosterone destroys your uterine lining and makes it incredibly unreceptive to pregnancy. So, to do this protocol, you must have enough eggs retrieved and enough that ultimately fertilize and then enough embies that make it to a five day freeze. Then you need something that makes it through thaw for transfer.
Unquestionably, I have DOR and on top of that, I am a spectacularly poor responder. Proof positive is two canceled cycles. On the only cycle we made it to ER, we got 6 mature eggs, four of which fertilized. Since that cycle, my AMH and AFC have degraded somewhat rapidly.
Be honest. This protocol is a waste of time/money/energy for us, right? If this is our last option, maybe moving to DE now is the right decision.
Thoughts? Thanks ladies. As always, hugs to you all.
Re: This is crazy, right? (DOR/POF related)
Hmmm...does your RE have any stats of success with this protocol with other DOR women (as in others who have had previous failed cycles and were poor responders)? If he could show that women who previously with poor response rates were suddenly successful with this route, then maybe. But if not, I think I would feel like you, really hesitant that it would work.
It's a hard spot to be in. You want to feel like you tried everything, but at the same time, I agree that you don't want to just wastr time/money/energy, if there's not much proven success to go with it. I would definitely ask your RE lots of questions.
Good luck sweetie! No matter what you choose, I am pulling for you!
IVF #1-July 2011 7/9/11-Started Stims
7/20/11-ER:No eggs in 4/5 follicles. Left the 5th follie intact and converted to an IUI
8/3/11-Beta #1=BFN,
Nov, 2011 BFP #1=m/c at 7 wks 3 days
11/11-AMH .47, IVF #2 March 2012...or not!! Surprise BFP on 2/19. Beta #1=161. Beta #2 305 Our little miracle girl is on her way! Due Oct 29, 2012
<a href="http://s1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb461/andersenspics/?action=view
Such a personal decision but since you are asking I will give you my opinion. Are you OOP?
I would move to DE and skip the cycle with your OE. I hope you find the answer that is right for you and your H. Wishing you all the best! Big hugs... I know how hard it is.
3 failed IVF with OE and 2 failed frozen DE cycles
Last fresh hail mary DE cycle starting Feb 2013
PAIF/SAIF always welcome
You know I am all for trying with your OE but it does sound like a long shot. I have no faith in my eggs now so I don't believe that I'd even get to day 5 to freeze. How many eggs is the RE hoping you will get with this protocol? Do you need a certain number to get to ER or will he take what you've got?
TTC #1 since 8/1/10; Me:41 and BRCA1+, DH:46
DOR (FSH 24.3)/ terrible egg quality ; homozygous MTHFR c677t
5 IUI's: 2/11 to 6/11 and 1/12= BFN
OE IVF#1-4 8/11-6/12= all BFN
DE IVF#1 11/12 bad embryos= BFN
DE IVF #2 2/13 BFP/Beta hell: m/c 5w6d
CFNBC 7 months, not doing well; decided on guarantee program at RBA w/frozen DE
DE IVF #3 1/14 ET 4BB; BFP;M/C 5w1d, incomplete m/c; MVA extraction in ER 7w1d
DE FET#1 ET 3/1714; BFP, beta 1 3/27= 197, beta 2 3/31= 1586, beta 3 4/7= 13879!!
First u/s= Twins with HBs at 6w2d! We are Team Pink x 2!!
K & K born 11/21/14 at 38wks 4 days
SAIF/PAIF Welcome
http://waitingforraintostop.wordpress.com
***Twin fraternal girls born at 35w6d in 12/2008***
We did 4 IVF cycles, but only made it to transfer twice. I was on the microdose lurpon protocol and massive doses of stims for my final IVF. We got a whopping 3 eggs, one which was mature, and it did fertilize. They did ICSI, Assisted Hatching, and a 3DT with my single embie, and now I have a son.
Based on my experience, I would obviously tell you to move forward with this cycle. That being said, I would have a huge problem with a protocol that would force me to freeze and FET later. I never had any experience with freezing and FET because I never had anything to freeze, but the thought of that sounds terrifying to me. Has your RE offered you any other alternatives to this course of treatment?
I can't comment on any of the meds you mentioned - all I was on was the lupron, then Follistim and Menopur.
I wish you all the luck in the world! ((HUGS))
15 treatment cycles: four early m/c
Moving forward with domestic infant adoption!
Home study approved 5/13, now just waiting...
TTC #1 since 3/10:
DX: Me-PCOS, retroverted/ tilted ute - DH- MFI, DH-4 mo of Clomid therapy= no improvement. Weekly HCG injections.
Me-34, DH-33
HSG- unsuccessful, SHSG (dialated)-no blockages
7/11-Clomid (unmonitored) BFN,
#1 Fresh IVF 9/11: w/ ICSI & AH (only option): (1 transfered, 8BF) = BFN!!
#2 FET: 2 transferred (2 6BF) 12/11 = BFFN!!
Surprise + HPT on break! 2/12 Beta 1: 6 Beta 2: <5 = c/p ( RE had given me provera... So pretty sure this ruined everything)<BR> #3 Fresh IVF 3/12: w/ ICSI & AH (2 transfered 8BF & 7BF, 1 to freeze) = BFMFN!
New RE 5/12
6/14 Hysteroscopy
#4 Fresh IVF 8/12: 5dt of 2 5AB blasts = BFN!... what else is new?!?
New RE insists its a transfer issue, immunology checked & good
#5 IVF FET 1/13 under anesthesia : Two 5 day blasts transferred
+ HPT!! Beta1: 2315 Beta2: 6442 Beta3: 31,061
First u/s 1/30/13: Shows 1 healthy heartbeat!!
Was he was right? I wasted 4 IVF's and the doctors were not getting the catheter in?!?
~~ Bump Bestie/ IRL Lynn0926 ~~
Thanks everyone. Sorry for the post-and-run, but we had to entertain MH's boss tonight.
Thanks for everyone's comments. In my heart, I know this isn't good for me, or for us. A part of me feels like I need to fail one last time. Does that make sense? It seems so terribly illogical. And this protocol sounds like it would be very tough. That said, I know I can do it. I guess I'm looking for the strength to say no -- to move on. I haven't found that strength yet.
Baby boy Henry born 2015.
Expecting our capstone baby (boy) early March 2018.
Yes, we're OOP, reb. Have been from the start.
Baby boy Henry born 2015.
Expecting our capstone baby (boy) early March 2018.
I get it
)
When are they looking for you to begin?
TTC #1 since 3/10:
DX: Me-PCOS, retroverted/ tilted ute - DH- MFI, DH-4 mo of Clomid therapy= no improvement. Weekly HCG injections.
Me-34, DH-33
HSG- unsuccessful, SHSG (dialated)-no blockages
7/11-Clomid (unmonitored) BFN,
#1 Fresh IVF 9/11: w/ ICSI & AH (only option): (1 transfered, 8BF) = BFN!!
#2 FET: 2 transferred (2 6BF) 12/11 = BFFN!!
Surprise + HPT on break! 2/12 Beta 1: 6 Beta 2: <5 = c/p ( RE had given me provera... So pretty sure this ruined everything)<BR> #3 Fresh IVF 3/12: w/ ICSI & AH (2 transfered 8BF & 7BF, 1 to freeze) = BFMFN!
New RE 5/12
6/14 Hysteroscopy
#4 Fresh IVF 8/12: 5dt of 2 5AB blasts = BFN!... what else is new?!?
New RE insists its a transfer issue, immunology checked & good
#5 IVF FET 1/13 under anesthesia : Two 5 day blasts transferred
+ HPT!! Beta1: 2315 Beta2: 6442 Beta3: 31,061
First u/s 1/30/13: Shows 1 healthy heartbeat!!
Was he was right? I wasted 4 IVF's and the doctors were not getting the catheter in?!?
~~ Bump Bestie/ IRL Lynn0926 ~~
That's an excellent question. I'll ask tomorrow. The option of a 3 day would help me feel better about this protocol.
Baby boy Henry born 2015.
Expecting our capstone baby (boy) early March 2018.
Thanks, Jilly. There is some data on this protocol the conclusions of which show promise for people with my problems. The data treats all POF patients together. It doesn't differentiate AMA, DOR, endo, etc. I suspect the people who haven't reaped the benefits are those with DOR.
Baby boy Henry born 2015.
Expecting our capstone baby (boy) early March 2018.
My RE requires at least three to get to ER. Last cycle, I only had two.
Baby boy Henry born 2015.
Expecting our capstone baby (boy) early March 2018.
Yes, we'd have to wait one unmediated cycle. I feel silly even talking about this -- as if I could even make it to ER. Psych eval for our fave donor now should be available soon.
Baby boy Henry born 2015.
Expecting our capstone baby (boy) early March 2018.
::: Married June 2003:::

TTC #1 since: Aug. 2008
Me: 34, DOR, MTHFR-A1298C (heterozygous), decreased blood flow to uterus, Mild Endo
DH: 38, Balanced translocation 5&10, unexplained MFI, normal SA and SCSA
Tx History: IUI 1&2= BFN
IVF# 1 W/ICSI= BFN
IVF# 2: cancelled d/t no response
IVF# 3= 1 egg retrieved=immature/not viable
IVF# 4= c/p
***CCRM ODWU***
Found DHs BT and Me-decreased blood flow to uterus
Recommended DE IVF w/PGD, incorporate electro-acupuncture. Decided to cycle locally
***New RE***
DE IVF# 1(cycle #6) w/pgd, (freeze all): 30R, 23M, 15F, slow/poor embryo development, 4 biopsied, 1 Normal "Norm"; DE IVF w/PGD, incorporate electro-acupuncture.
IVF# 6: (OE/DS) cancelled
IVF# 7: (OE/DS) 1R, 1M, 1F, arrested day 5
Plan-DE IVF# 2 (cycle #8): DE/DS in May 2015
http://icanhazbabyz.blogspot.com/
It sounds like you're mentally not ready to commit to DE yet. If that's the case, and $$ and time are not priority concerns, then I think you have to do it to help close that book for you.
That being said, if $$ and time are among your top concerns, I would suggest trying to move on sooner as that does sound like a fairly risky investment. Good luck.
Me: 36, DH: 42
Dx: DOR and MFI
DH: low count + very low motility; hormones all normal; Sperm DNA Frag. test = poor to fair; male karyotyping normal
Me: FSH 13.4 + AMH 0.26 + hypothyroidism; Scratch the hypothyrodism (?); Blood clotting and immune panel all negative; endometrial biopsy normal
IVF #1 (MDLF - Jul/Aug 2011): BFN (9R, 5M, 3F with ICSI, 3dt of 1 10-cell grade 2, no frosties)
IVF #2 (EP-antagonist - Sep/Oct 2011): BFN (6R, 4M, 3F w/ ICSI, 3dt of 1 6-cell, 1 7-cell, grade 4s, no frosties)
DE IVF #1 (shared cycle - June 2012): c/p (6R, 6F w/ICSI, 3dt 1 8-cell grade A- and 1 7-cell grade A-; no frosties)
DE IVF #2 (shared cycle with new donor - Nov/Dec/ 2012): - BFP!!!!! 12/14/12. U/S on 12/27 shows twins!!!!!
SAIFW/PAIFW
I've also never heard of this and it sounds so drawn out. From my experiences (not DOR or using DE) getting through the meds and ER +5d is the super difficult part. I would be so fearful to go through all of that and not have anything, but you also don't know unless you try it. Maybe this protocol is a good solution or will help you find some closure.
I'd also want a day 3 freeze just so you didn't feel you did this in vain if you don't have good response. I know the doctors know what's best, but it still seems like having something to transfer is better than giving the chance of things fizzling out.
Our FET was much easier, although I don't know if it's because it was less involved or because I've grown rather apathetic to ever getting a BFP, but probably both.
When in doubt and having resources to do it I'd say to get every question and concern answered by the doctor and still waiver in whether you should proceed take your chances instead of always wondering. Wishing you lots of luck, AmCheri!
Baby boy Henry born 2015.
Expecting our capstone baby (boy) early March 2018.
You mentioned previously the name of the RE who came up with the protocol and if I recall correctly he is renowned for getting results. On the other hand there are other RE's (sirm for example) who suggest to much LH (which I believe is similar to adding testosterone) is detrimental to egg quality. Isn't to much testosterone the reason PCOS and AMA patients have problems conceiving? Is your RE looking to get more eggs from you, or does he suggest this will help produce better eggs?
I've been on 750iu of follistim on a long drawn cycle with SIRM and have also done low stim (225iu) and I get exactly the same amount of eggs. Also appears that 8 tabs of Femara on a TI cycle gets about the same results. So if it were me, if the RE's goal is simply to get more eggs in the hopes of finding a good one, I'd say forget it. I really don't like that philosophy for DOR. Have you considered a low-stim cycle? It obviously hasn't work for me, but it is much easier on your body and the cost is less then a full stim which might give you more eggs in the long run because you could possibly afford more attempts of low stim vs one full blown ivf with tons of meds. Good luck in whatever you decide
Dx MFI, AMA, Endo, AMH .16
Lap 10/09 Removed endometrioma, stage IV endo and adhesions
Lap 2/10 Endometrioma cysts & adhesions returned.
Ivf #1 4/10 Antagonist, ET Cancelled.
IVF #2 2/11 A/ACP+E2V C/P
IVF #3 6/11 Letrozole/Antagonist BFN
IVF #4 11/11 Low stim Antagonist BFN
Lap 3/12 Lap & Selective HSG
Many cycles of Letrozole and LP HCG w/TI and LDN
IVF #5 8/12 Low stim BFN
IUI #1 10/12 BFN br> S&PAIFW
Positive for HLA-B27, I'm a mutant
Testing - Me ok, gluten issue? DH - borderline count, low motility
4/28/11 IUI#1 = BFP!(5/25), EDD 2/2/12 - m/c 5w3d
7/3, 7/31, 9/25 - IUI#2-4=BFN
IVF#1 - 1 blast = BFP!! (12/30), EDD 9/9/12, confirmed c/p 4w2d
FET#1 3/2/12 - 2 blasts =BFP!! EDD 11/18/12, us#1 = twins! Confirmed m/c 5w6d
4/20-surprise BFP and another c/p 4w2d
FET#2 7/16/12 - 2 blasts = BFN
FET#3 8/20/12 - 1 blast - BFP!! Beta #1-2=177, 354
1st u/s 5w6d, one beautiful little HB
baby girl born 5/10/13
TTC#2 since 12/17/2014, Cycle 8
Repeat Testing...FSH=12, AMH=3.8, AFC=28.
IUI#5 5/10/15- c/p?
IVF#2 8/19/15 - cancelled due to cysts
IVF#2 take two 10/2015 - 5 blasts frozen
FET#4 12/11/2015 - BFN - 4 blasts remaining
FET#5 2/18/16 - BFP!!! Beta1-3, 126, 250, 745!!
Tons of love and ((hugs)) to my IF sister NMscubagirl
This exactly! GL in what you decide
Multiple ectopics, 2 failed IVF's
IVF #1: Did not get to ET, embies all failed PGD (major chromosomal defects)
IVF #2: We have 2 chromosomally perfect embies as a result of PGD (Boy/Girl) 1 failed the thaw (Girl) Transferred 1, yet ended as a c/p
Thought it was the end of our TTC Journey 6/20/2012
SHOCK BFP 9/28/2012: IT'S A BOY! and everything is normal !!!!!!
Little A born 38w 2d on 05/23/13 and is a true miracle for this IF Vet!
Sorry for the kinda non-answer...
TTC since March 2009 // Me and DH - 28
Testing Summer/Fall 2010 - Unexplained IF
IUIs #1-4 ~ Clomid/Ovidrel/TI/IUI ~ all BFNs
IUI #5 ~ Femara/Ovidrel/TI/IUI ~ BFN
IUIs #6-9 ~ Research Study Meds/Pregnyl/TI/IUI ~ all BFNs
IVF Consultation, More Testing
Diagnostic Cycle ~ Mucinex/Progesterone/TI ~ BFN
IVF #1 ~ Menopur/Bravelle/Ganirelix/Novarel/Progesterone/Lupron
7R, 6F // 2 transferred // 3 frosties ~ BFN
FET #1 ~ Estrace/PIO/Lupron
3 thawed // 2 transferred // 1 lost // no more frosties ~ BFP!!
Beta #1 - 456 // Beta #2 - 1176 // Beta #3 - 2933 // Beta #4 - 6753
EDD: May 16, 2013
Bedrest for SCH // 6w2d through 10w1d
Elevated TSH and Lazy Thyroid DX @ 10w - Started Synthroid
Finally released from RE at 13w
~~ My IF Blog ~~