Pre-School and Daycare

What Would You Do? (Behavior related)

Since DS was about 1.5 years he's been a pretty challenging kid. Our current most difficult challenge is that he's VERY easily frustrated by things and not at all self-sufficient. At over 4 years old it's getting very exhausting for DH and I. Some examples:

-he only likes to use spoons at meal times, and if food falls off his spoon or his plate, or he can't get the food without a fork, he freaks out and throws a tantrum. We try to show him how to get the food, stab it with a fork, put it back on the spoon, etc, but it takes a long time to calm him down. And considering his age, DH and I refuse to feed him.

-he CAN dress himself, but again, if something goes wrong and he has difficulty with it, it's another tantrum and demanding help/we do it. We even lay out his clothes in a way that should be easy for him to get them on. And he is perfectly capable to do it himself, so DH doesnt like to do it for him, though we will at times if we're in a hurry. 

There are lots of other times/examples where he freaks out over having to do something he IS perfectly capable of doing. Sometimes DH and I help him/try to calm him down, and other times we have no patience for it and make him do it himself. Either way it's exhausting at this point. We have a 2 year old and a 2 week old who need our help and attention with those things much more than he does. (And this has been a problem for years, so not likely related to having a new baby at home)

Would you be more likely to be patient with DS each and every time, taking the time to help and guide him (which he is by no means always receptive to) until these struggles end (if ever), or would you ignore these outbursts and explain that he's old enough and capable enough to do it himself, and then make him do it?  Either way DS will be miserable and frustrated, but I'm not sure what might get better results in the long run.  

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Re: What Would You Do? (Behavior related)

  • I would talk to his pediatrician to make sure he/she doesn't have concerns about fine or gross motor skills.  Beyond that, I'd be super patient, but not tolerate tantrums.  It's ok to be frustrated, it's not ok to pitch a fit.  Maybe when he's calm role-play appropriate ways to show frustration.  You could even make it funny.  "When I get frustrated, I like to....." Make a silly face, moo like a cow, etc.  It sounds silly, but give him an acceptable way of expressing his frustration.  As for refusing to do things for himself, I think that 4 is old enough to do most of those things solo within reason.  DD does the same thing sometimes when she wants the attention the baby is getting.  If she won't get dressed, we don't go do whatever fun thing we had planned or play outside.  If I need to be somewhere I will help her, but I don't speak or react at all.  She's looking for attention and I try not to give it to her for things like that.  For eating- if she doesn't eat, she doesn't eat.  She won't starve and I want her to listen to her body.  I won't fix her something separate unless we're eating something spicy or that she doesn't like.  If she's not hungry enough to eat without pitching a fit, then I try not to push it.  

    I am surprised at how tough 4 has been, especially since her 4th birthday was 2 weeks after Baby Sister arrived.   

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  • My DS also frustrates very easily.  Your mealtimes and dressing sound like ours.  Mostly I just leave him alone to figure it out himself.  If I try to help him, it often makes it worse. He has always been slightly behind in fine motor skills and still struggles with scissors and pencils.  We work on it all the time, but his tolerance is so small. 

    Sometimes with mealtimes, the answer is letting him use a spoon when ordinarily I'd use a fork or vice versa.  At least he feels better about doing it itself.

    For getting dressed, I've learned that when I want him to wear something that he'll have trouble doing himself...buttons, certain zippers, certain pants, I ask him to help me .  Mostly I just try to limit those items to once or twice a week.

     Like pp said, I just encourage him, acknowledge that it's hard, but praise his efforts. Even if he gives up , he usually agrees to try later. 

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  • la79alla79al member
    I just want to say that it might be more the 2 year old that is causing some of these behaviors.  My DD1 went downhill with what she could do independently when DD2 was born (almost 2 years ago).  Most days she refuses to get dressed, buckle herself in her carseat, brush her teeth, wipe after potty, etc.  I try to make it a big deal when she does stuff for herself and point out to DD2 that when she is a big girl, she will be able to do stuff like DD1. 
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  • My 4 year old has similar struggles with eating and dressing herself, and I actually just had her evaluated by an OT for fine motor deficits.  The OT said she has sensory processing disorder, and we are going to start therapy for it.  I'm not saying this is the case with your DS, but if you have seen any other signs of sensory issues, it's something you might want to consider. 

    One of the hallmarks of SPD is inconsistency.  There are some days when DD does really well feeding and dressing herself and other days when she really struggles.  She has always had a lot of tactile sensitivities, but our pedi was never concerned about them because she has always met her milestones and does well in preschool.  It turns out that DD has problems with her vestibular system, as well, and that has a big impact on her fine motor abilities as well as her general clumsiness.

  • I'd talk to my pedi about an evaluation, personally. Problems with self-care skills like feeding and dressing oneself can be a red flag for developmental disorders. 

    I think some of the fit-throwing is typical, but if the behaviors are long-term and to the point where they're interfering with his daily functioning within your family, it deserves a look by a professional. I think evaluation by an occupation therapist would be particularly helpful, because they'll look specifically at fine motor skills, sensory issues, etc. Your pedi can refer you to your school district, which takes over for EI after age 3. Since it's summer, you might want to get the ball rolling now because it'll likely take longer to get him in. 

    If by some chance the behaviors are related to getting a new sibling or wanting to regress for attention's sake, and they go away prior to the eval, you can always cancel. From what you've described, that doesn't sound like it's the case. 

    My DD1 has autism and has similar frustrations about things she thinks she should be able to do, but often has trouble with because she has fine motor issues. Again, some of it is normal. It's all about duration and intensity of behaviors, and only a pro can tell you whether those are out of whack compared to typical kids. 

    One of the things that helps the most for my DD1 is just to slooooooow down. If I rush her, we both get frustrated and upset, and she doesn't learn anything from it. So I build extra time into getting us all ready, leave her be to work things out herself if she can, and set a limit of how many time she can try. Usually it's "you can try three times, then I'm going to help." She usually hates even that, but we can get past it without a huge meltdown most of the time. 

     

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    DD1, 1/5/2008 ~~~ DD2, 3/17/2010
  • I would also suggest an evaluation. My son does not freak out quite as much as yours but we some of the same behavior and it started right around 12-14 months.  As he became more aware of his ability and responsibility for his actions he developed quite a bit of anxiety.  He's a terrible perfectionist, to the point that at 14 months he stopped talking because he refused to say a word unless he could do so perfectly.  A lot of what you are describing sounds very similar to me, that he's getting very upset when he feels like he either did something "wrong" or that he can't do something, that's he's afraid he will do it incorrectly so he shuts down and does not even want to try.

    I know you need him to be independent with two other small children in the house but I would have a big heart to heart with your husband and change your approach.  I think in the immediate moment you need to re-focus yourselves on a positive behavior plan and boosting his confidence. Praise him like crazy for accomplishing things that maybe you aren't because you just expect him to do it, with the cloths maybe you need to tell him he needs to try and you will help him with one item so he can pick which is the most difficult for him but he has to do the rest (like he gets his pants and shirt on but you help him snap the pants/button the shirt).  I'd stop telling him stuff like "you should be able to do this, you can do this, you don't need our help ect".  Something is going on with your child and whether a 4 should or should not be able to do XYZ is irrelevant, your child can't do them.

    When you add a possible anxiety/confidence issue in with two younger siblings you've got two sets of regressions to deal with when it comes to the oldest.  It's completely typical for any child to start needing more help when a new sibling shows up on the scene.  It's their way of saying "hey mama I need some extra attention too".  I've worked a ton with my oldest, well with both of them but mostly my oldest, on flat out saying "mama or daddy I need some attention right now, I really want you to help me with this, I just need some time with you". and it works wonders.  Sure there are plenty of times that he goes straight for the action of acting out but we've had a heavy focus on that for about a year and it's probably 50/50 at this point for acting out or saying "I need some attention".  Let me tell you it is absolutely awesome to have your child walk up to you calmly and say "I really need some attention/help from you/to talk to you ect" instead of trying to figure out what on earth this fit is really about.

    Is he in preschool?  How does his behavior differ outside of the home?

  • jw87jw87 member
    I don't know when the line for an evaluation is needed, but DS gets frustrated sometimes getting dressed or if he can't find a specific toy, etc. 

    I always stay calm and tell him needs to calm down and ask him if he needs help.  I will guide a shirt over his head if he's having problems or help him find a toy if I have the time. 

    The spoon thing, I would personally have DS go to his room to cool down and then he can return later to finish eating. 

    I think it's part of parenting to teach your child how to calm themselves in stressful situations, that being said... I also don't know where you draw the line when it's something more. 
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  • Thanks for the responses, everyone. I've been thinking a lot of about it and have looked into Sensory Processing Disorder. I'm going to book an appt with his Pedi to talk to him, but have also contacted a few friends who are OTs to see if they have any tips or advice. 

    He has been evaluated before because of his severe speech delay, and an OT works in his pre-school classroom (though if it's like his SLP the visits would be few and far between). Nothing has been mentioned to me before, but he's never been evaluated specifically for fine motor skills (though jeepers you;d think having been in the EI system for 3 years someone would have noticed something).

     The PP that mentioned inconsistency' really resonated with our struggles b/c there are often times that DS can do these fine motor skills thing. This morning, for example, he got himself dressed without any help at all, but so often it frustrates him and he claims to not be able to do it (same goes for eating and things like tucking himself into bed, etc).

    Anyway, thanks for the tips and responses!  

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