I have a dear friend that was murdered when I was in college. When her killer was caught her mother argued against the death penalty (it was in a state with the death penalty and the case did warrant as such). She and I had a very interesting discussion about it. Basically - her daughter felt every life was worth something and everyone deserved a chance. Due to that - her mom couldn't endorse it.
It opened my eyes a lot to bigger thoughts on the issue. I'm still torn - but in his case he is serving time and then will be deported (he isn't an american citizen). I feel as though simply knowing who it was and that he is serving time - 'justifies' - though I miss her and nothing will bring her back.. killing him.. that wouldn't either.
I'm for it, only IF the person is proven guilty with undeniable evidence - whatever that may be.
Public hangings for child molesters might deter others from acting on their impulses.
I'm editing to add that I didn't list my reasons, but the taxpayers paying for life in prison for the murders who would otherwise be eligible for the death penalty, isn't fair to those of us who are law abiding, etc. However, on the other side of that coin, how many people are wrongfully convicted - that causes hesitation for my decision on this subject.
I'm pretty strongly anti-death penalty. I would never be selected to be on a jury where the death penalty was a possibility because I could never make the decision to take another person's life no matter how clear cut the case was. I don't think I could live with myself.
There are times when I think to myself that someone deserves the death penalty (usually in child abuse/murder cases), but I still couldn't hand out that punishment. I also really cringe at anyone who chooses to watch a death via the penalty (Sadam Hussein's hanging when it leaked on youtube, for instance. And wasn't the unabomber's death televised? Or was that the OK City bomber? I don't remember)
I happen to think that everyone deserves a second chance and believe that there will be judgement after death for those crimes committed on this earth. Interestingly enough, most of the Christians I know take the exact opposite stance and are pro-death penalty, but this is why I don't normally discuss my stance. Too much drama.
Since I asked the question, I should probably answer it too... I've always been very much against the death penalty for lots of reasons... and I've done a lot of research on this throughout my academic and profesisonal career--both in undergrad and in law school. I also clerked for a Federal District Judge in Louisiana during a Death Penalty trial and I saw the trial from jury selection through sentencing, so I've seen the criminal justice system in all of its glory.
I should also say that I have a personal reason for being against the Death Penalty--my father's mother was murdered, and my father has always been against the Death Penalty, despite knowing exactly who killed her.
Deterrence: If someone wants to kill and has enough anger and rage and passion to kill, knowing that he or she could face the death penalty is not going to deter them from killing.
Setting an Example: I don't think it makes any sense to show people that killing is wrong by killing people.
"An Eye for an Eye": We don't cut off the hands of robbers anymore, so why murder murderers?
Science: Though science has come a long way I still think there are too many situations in which science doesn't answer all the questions. There are too many cases that are "close calls" and science can never tell you with 100% certainty that you got the right person. There are also too many cases that have been reopened years later with new evidence that showed that the person in prison was not, in fact, the murderer... look at The Innocence Project or Witness to Innocence for more information.
Money: It actually costs LESS money to give someone a life sentence without the possibility of parole than it does to give someone the death penalty because of all the appeals they go through. After being sentenced to death, people are usually on death row for decades before ever being executed, if at all.
Cruel & Unusual Punishment: the Constitution forbids it, and there is no way to execute someone without it being "cruel and unusual punishment" in my opinion.
For it, mostly because it makes me stabby to know that these assholes get to live rent free, get 3 meals a day, better healthcare than most Americans and access to TV, internet, books, education, etc, and WE have to pay for it! I think that money would be better spent on the education system!
Anna said it best. I feel like it just sends the wrong message. Besides, a murderer should live the rest of their lives with the guilt on their minds. By killing them, you are "taking them out of their misery" and inflicting more pain on their families. Yes, he killed someone and there are loved ones already grieving, but why add more souls to an already crappy situation...let the murderer live their punishment by themselves without having their families pay for it also.
Married my best friend 09.18.11 TTC since 12.10.11, BFP #1 02.10.12 Baby E born 10/18/12. 8.5lbs and 21in of pure perfection!
Anna, Thanks for posting this conversation. I agree with your reasoning 100%! I would like to add that giving that sort of power to a state is downright scary. I mean, how would you feel if you lived in a state where you were convicted of a murder and sentenced to death when in fact you are innocent? Plus, IMO, killing convicted murderers makes us no better than them. Since I could never personally kill another person, I have a hard time allowing others to legally do so.
Completely and totally against the death penalty. For all the reasons listed above and because I believe there is no way to become completely certain that every bit of evidence has been found and fairly represented.
I think I'm in the minority here- where I'm in full support of the death penalty in cases where there's inrefutable evidence.
Andddd... to get even more "UO Flame Free"- I think the way we execute prisoners is way too humane. I personally think that they should be killed the way that they killed their victim(s). Even if that included torture. Getting an injection and dying within seconds is no punishment, to me.
I think I'm in the minority here- where I'm in full support of the death penalty in cases where there's inrefutable evidence.
Andddd... to get even more "UO Flame Free"- I think the way we execute prisoners is way too humane. I personally think that they should be killed the way that they killed their victim(s). Even if that included torture. Getting an injection and dying within seconds is no punishment, to me.
I know its terrible to admit, but I pretty much have the same thoughts run through my head too (right or wrong). Some people are evil to the core and it scares me that they're allowed to continue about their lives in jail where they really don't have to do much of anything. Maybe if jail involved some serious labor, a positive contribution to society, and the inmates were forced to pay their own way (rather than tax payers) I could relish the thought of life sentences for heinous crimes.
I'm for it when the crime warrants it. Murdering your own children, raping and killing kids, mass murderers... I don't want my tax dollars going to support a warm cot and three meals a day because some bleeding hearts think that everyone deserves to live.
No, the people that were needlessly killed deserved to live. That's the long and short of it in my book.
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I'm for it. I do not think that "everyone deserves a second chance" or "every life is valuable". Some people are just plain evil and have no regard for human life. Many of those people could care less about what they have done and how it's affected others. They have no conscience and therefore feel no guilt.
I have no problem permanently removing them from this world.
Money: It actually costs LESS money to give someone a life sentence without the possibility of parole than it does to give someone the death penalty because of all the appeals they go through. After being sentenced to death, people are usually on death row for decades before ever being executed, if at all.
Anna... this is has always been my question.. like (and I bring up another hot topic) the immigration law.... does it really cost the taxpayers more?
I am against it because it doesn't work. Aren't people supposed to "fear" it and in turn be good?
It's apparently 10 times MORE expensive to sentence someone to death than it is to sentence someone to life imprisonment without the possibility of parole.
This is one of those issues where I waver. Often any case involving children leads me to think "HELLZ YES to the death penalty!!!"
For example, here in Delaware we had a very popular pediatrician who it turns out has been raping his patients for years. VERY young patients. Babies even. His victims number in the hundreds. The details are horrific and trust me, you don't want these images in your head (as they have been forced into mine by every local media outlet), so I will spare you the specifics. But my opinion, in this case, is that he should be brutally raped to death. Pretty much everyone else in the state feels the same way. Since being incarcerated, they've had to keep him in solitary, because he wouldn't last 5 minutes in the general population.
However, since I could never flip the switch myself, I think we should bring back the labor camps and chain gangs. Didn't some sherrif in Arizona do that? Makes them prisoners wear the traditional stripes, sleep in tents, and work their asses off all day? Hell yes to that! Hard labor in heat AND cold would be a way bigger deterrent than an air-conditioned/heated cell!
Best quote EVER: "It's 120 degrees in Iraq and the soldiers are living in tents and they didn't commit any crimes, so shut your mouths." ? Arpaio to inmates living in tents that reached 138 degrees during a heat wave. Associated Press, July 25, 2003
Ken&Anna
member
Re: Spicing things up a little... Death Penalty: Discuss!
I've always seen its place.. however..
I have a dear friend that was murdered when I was in college. When her killer was caught her mother argued against the death penalty (it was in a state with the death penalty and the case did warrant as such). She and I had a very interesting discussion about it. Basically - her daughter felt every life was worth something and everyone deserved a chance. Due to that - her mom couldn't endorse it.
It opened my eyes a lot to bigger thoughts on the issue. I'm still torn - but in his case he is serving time and then will be deported (he isn't an american citizen). I feel as though simply knowing who it was and that he is serving time - 'justifies' - though I miss her and nothing will bring her back.. killing him.. that wouldn't either.
Mine is probably an unpopular opinion, but...
I'm for it, only IF the person is proven guilty with undeniable evidence - whatever that may be.
Public hangings for child molesters might deter others from acting on their impulses.
I'm editing to add that I didn't list my reasons, but the taxpayers paying for life in prison for the murders who would otherwise be eligible for the death penalty, isn't fair to those of us who are law abiding, etc. However, on the other side of that coin, how many people are wrongfully convicted - that causes hesitation for my decision on this subject.
I'm pretty strongly anti-death penalty. I would never be selected to be on a jury where the death penalty was a possibility because I could never make the decision to take another person's life no matter how clear cut the case was. I don't think I could live with myself.
There are times when I think to myself that someone deserves the death penalty (usually in child abuse/murder cases), but I still couldn't hand out that punishment. I also really cringe at anyone who chooses to watch a death via the penalty (Sadam Hussein's hanging when it leaked on youtube, for instance. And wasn't the unabomber's death televised? Or was that the OK City bomber? I don't remember)
I happen to think that everyone deserves a second chance and believe that there will be judgement after death for those crimes committed on this earth. Interestingly enough, most of the Christians I know take the exact opposite stance and are pro-death penalty, but this is why I don't normally discuss my stance. Too much drama.
Since I asked the question, I should probably answer it too... I've always been very much against the death penalty for lots of reasons... and I've done a lot of research on this throughout my academic and profesisonal career--both in undergrad and in law school. I also clerked for a Federal District Judge in Louisiana during a Death Penalty trial and I saw the trial from jury selection through sentencing, so I've seen the criminal justice system in all of its glory.
I should also say that I have a personal reason for being against the Death Penalty--my father's mother was murdered, and my father has always been against the Death Penalty, despite knowing exactly who killed her.
Deterrence: If someone wants to kill and has enough anger and rage and passion to kill, knowing that he or she could face the death penalty is not going to deter them from killing.
Setting an Example: I don't think it makes any sense to show people that killing is wrong by killing people.
"An Eye for an Eye": We don't cut off the hands of robbers anymore, so why murder murderers?
Science: Though science has come a long way I still think there are too many situations in which science doesn't answer all the questions. There are too many cases that are "close calls" and science can never tell you with 100% certainty that you got the right person. There are also too many cases that have been reopened years later with new evidence that showed that the person in prison was not, in fact, the murderer... look at The Innocence Project or Witness to Innocence for more information.
Money: It actually costs LESS money to give someone a life sentence without the possibility of parole than it does to give someone the death penalty because of all the appeals they go through. After being sentenced to death, people are usually on death row for decades before ever being executed, if at all.
Cruel & Unusual Punishment: the Constitution forbids it, and there is no way to execute someone without it being "cruel and unusual punishment" in my opinion.
I could go on and on an on...
I can't get into it now but briefly:
I am super duper anti. It's state-sanctioned torture. All the reasons listed by Anna above are exactly true.
I don't believe in giving the state the power to decide who gets to live and who gets to die.
We are the only "Western" Nation to have it and actually only 21 (I think) countries now have it...if you see who we are among it's shameful.
In a nutshell: absolutely against it.
Anna said it best. I feel like it just sends the wrong message. Besides, a murderer should live the rest of their lives with the guilt on their minds. By killing them, you are "taking them out of their misery" and inflicting more pain on their families. Yes, he killed someone and there are loved ones already grieving, but why add more souls to an already crappy situation...let the murderer live their punishment by themselves without having their families pay for it also.
Married my best friend 09.18.11
TTC since 12.10.11, BFP #1 02.10.12
Baby E born 10/18/12. 8.5lbs and 21in of pure perfection!
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I think I'm in the minority here- where I'm in full support of the death penalty in cases where there's inrefutable evidence.
Andddd... to get even more "UO Flame Free"- I think the way we execute prisoners is way too humane. I personally think that they should be killed the way that they killed their victim(s). Even if that included torture. Getting an injection and dying within seconds is no punishment, to me.
I know its terrible to admit, but I pretty much have the same thoughts run through my head too (right or wrong). Some people are evil to the core and it scares me that they're allowed to continue about their lives in jail where they really don't have to do much of anything. Maybe if jail involved some serious labor, a positive contribution to society, and the inmates were forced to pay their own way (rather than tax payers) I could relish the thought of life sentences for heinous crimes.
I'm for it when the crime warrants it. Murdering your own children, raping and killing kids, mass murderers... I don't want my tax dollars going to support a warm cot and three meals a day because some bleeding hearts think that everyone deserves to live.
No, the people that were needlessly killed deserved to live. That's the long and short of it in my book.
I'm for it. I do not think that "everyone deserves a second chance" or "every life is valuable". Some people are just plain evil and have no regard for human life. Many of those people could care less about what they have done and how it's affected others. They have no conscience and therefore feel no guilt.
I have no problem permanently removing them from this world.
THIS:
Money: It actually costs LESS money to give someone a life sentence without the possibility of parole than it does to give someone the death penalty because of all the appeals they go through. After being sentenced to death, people are usually on death row for decades before ever being executed, if at all.
Anna... this is has always been my question.. like (and I bring up another hot topic) the immigration law.... does it really cost the taxpayers more?
I am against it because it doesn't work. Aren't people supposed to "fear" it and in turn be good?
Found this article explaining the difference in costs:
https://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-03-07-exepensive-to-execute_N.htm
It's apparently 10 times MORE expensive to sentence someone to death than it is to sentence someone to life imprisonment without the possibility of parole.
This is one of those issues where I waver. Often any case involving children leads me to think "HELLZ YES to the death penalty!!!"
For example, here in Delaware we had a very popular pediatrician who it turns out has been raping his patients for years. VERY young patients. Babies even. His victims number in the hundreds. The details are horrific and trust me, you don't want these images in your head (as they have been forced into mine by every local media outlet), so I will spare you the specifics. But my opinion, in this case, is that he should be brutally raped to death. Pretty much everyone else in the state feels the same way. Since being incarcerated, they've had to keep him in solitary, because he wouldn't last 5 minutes in the general population.
However, since I could never flip the switch myself, I think we should bring back the labor camps and chain gangs. Didn't some sherrif in Arizona do that? Makes them prisoners wear the traditional stripes, sleep in tents, and work their asses off all day? Hell yes to that! Hard labor in heat AND cold would be a way bigger deterrent than an air-conditioned/heated cell!
YES! Here is an article about that sheriff. I think all the prisons should be just like this.
https://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1929920,00.html
Best quote EVER:
"It's 120 degrees in Iraq and the soldiers are living in tents and they didn't commit any crimes, so shut your mouths."
? Arpaio to inmates living in tents that reached 138 degrees during a heat wave. Associated Press, July 25, 2003