September 2011 Moms
Marion&Kit
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BFing in uniform
Marion&Kit
member
Since the Time article, there have been a lot of pro-BFing things coming out. This is the latest one, showing military ladies BFing in uniform:
the actual blog - https://breastfeedingincombatboots.com/
I'm so entirely divided in the way I feel about it. On one hand, kudos to those ladies - BFing with a schedule and demands like that must be awful, On the other hand, I think it's a bit unprofessional to do it in uniform, with their blouses unbuttoned and their shirts hiked up.
Thoughts?
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Re: BFing in uniform
I'm mostly just comparing it in my head to BFing in a professional workplace environment. If my daughter came to see me over my lunch break here at the office, I would absolutely NEVER nurse her here.
But on the other hand, you are absolutely right. BFing with such a demanding schedule sounds almost impossible as it is.
I'm very, very torn.
(Not quite the same but I have watched my DH prepare his dress blues and in the old days his greens for many events over the past 12 years. Perfectness is a requirement).
I'm with you M&K, I'm so torn on this. Kudos to these women for being able to BF and be an active member of military, but there are standards in place when you put on that uniform.
FWIW, I think most of the uproar is about the fact that these photos were possibly posted without consent, which (based on my understanding), such things need to be cleared before done (because of the uniform).
Fact is, there is no protocol in place for this, no hardcore "You will" or "will not" BF while in uniform, so there is no right or wrong answer to it.
I think that's a big big big issue here too. It's such a grey area in the policy, so you'll be doing it one day and it's no big deal, but then the next day you're chewed out for violation. Supervisor discretion sucks...I think it's something that really should be addressed.
They already have policy in place for chewing gum and talking on cell phones and wearing underwear (it's required, BTW) so this really should be set in stone too.
1 - I guess I just don't really get this. Does being in the military take away one's right from being human/being a mom?
2 - If BF in uniform was such a big deal, I don't think these women would have done it outside AND allowed for their photo to be taken (whoever it may be that took the photo).
No, it's more about the rules that are currently in place while in uniform. Anyone in uniform is not to be talking on a cell phone, chewing gum, hands in pockets, no public displays of affection (other than homecomings), etc. The uniform is a symbol of the country, and has regulations in place for it (similar idea to the fact that there are rules about how to treat a flag, can't touch the ground, etc).
The problem, like I said before, is that there isn't a protocol for women nursing in uniform. There are 2 very absolute sides to the argument, and I can see and respect both of them.
Not saying it's the right thing at all. I'm completely and totally for NIP, and would've gladly participated in a nurse in if J would've latched.
Because it's the military, it's not a civilian job, and there are certain things that are simply expected of you. They tell you from day one that you are to uphold a different standard - there's even different laws in place for military members. You put on that uniform, and you're automatically "at work." It's not sweatpants or teeshirts. Shelley said it, perfection is expected while in that uniform... You're not allowed to even put your hands in your pockets or chew gum or kiss your husband, because that soldier image is so important.
I'm torn torn torn torn about this. I'm such a hardcore BFing advocate, but this just hits a wrong spot with me.
I will ask my DH and his friends if their workplaces have policies on BFing. Someone should have an answer since they have all been 17 years or more full time/career.
The blog M posted originally has a link to policies. There are policies for BFing moms, but nothing about nursing in uniform, in public. It's more along the lines of when they are eligible for deployment, what they can/can't do in the field, and when (if any) breaks they get to pump/BF. It's listed by Air Force, Navy, etc.
Never heard of these. Can you show me the regulations? My DH and his friends to all of these all the time in uniform and so do their superiors.
Regulation may have been the wrong word to use here. I don't know of specific policies in place, but soldiers I know don't do these things. Someone in the military may be able to shed more light on it. ETA: From what I'm finding, it's not any type of specific regulation listed (as in, "No chewing gum", but more of a "stand still while in formation" that it wouldn't be tolerated). I think it also differs between the military branches. Marines aren't to wear their uniform outside of work duties except for commuting to and from work, so they couldn't stop at the grocery store on the way home, for example. There's also the difference between dress and working uniforms.
I know Air Force doesn't have a force-wide policy on it, not sure about the other branches. This is from AFI 36-2903 (dress and personal appearance):
"2.13.3. All Airmen must ensure uniform items and civilian clothing (in official capacity) are maintained, clean, and in serviceable condition (that is, not frayed, worn out, torn, faded, patched, etc.), correct in design and specifications, and fit properly. Uniform items are to be zipped, snapped or buttoned unless otherwise defined in this instruction."
"2.13.5. All Airmen should inform any Air Force member that is in violation of uniform and appearance standards."
?Dress and personal appearance standards that are not listed as authorized in the publication are unauthorized.? -AFI 36-2903, Page 1, last sentence.
It's so, so, so grey. Painfully grey.
Not sure about DoD wide...I just know AIr Force. Chewing gum, hands in pockets, PDA aren't allowed. They just changed the AFI in the last few years that you can walk and talk on a cell phone, you used to just have to stand still. Unless you've got an officer coming your way, in which case you drop that phone like it's hot.
It depends on who's around, which rules you break. Chiefs are notorious for not giving two sh!ts, but you'll have some really strict MSgts. Officers are (generally) pretty strict too. But again, depends on the officer, the base, the squad, if there's a Colonel running around base that day....
I'm loving the visual of this
So what are these ladies supposed to do? Change out of their uniforms to nurse?
I also don't understand not being able to urinate in uniform. Do you change out of your uniform to go to the bathroom?
To me this is very cut and dry - the moms need to nurse, so you unbutton your shirt and nurse your baby. But I am very uneducated on the military world.
Just searched through the entire 300-something page Army regulations (AR 670-1 last revised 2 weeks ago) and there is nothing about gum chewing or cell phone talking. The military gives out cell phones so that one about no talking on a cell phone doesn't make sense at all.
I did see that they are not supposed to put their hands in their pockets regulation.
There is also nothing about not breast-feeding in uniform. There is lots on maternity uniforms.
Seriously, it's so sad that women have to go to such extremes as writing articles and blogs, We shouldn't have to defend how we feed our babies, it is something that is so normal and natural.
Im on the feed your baby when and however you need to feed your baby, side who cares if you're wearing a uniform or a ball gown, or sweat pants for goodness sake! A baby needs to eat too!
Why is a calf suckling it's mothers **THIS IS SPAM**, sooo cute, but a human baby doing the same thing, disgusting?
This debate has been beaten to a bloody pulp, and it may never come out on the bright side.
? Voted Cool Cat ~ 2012 Sweetpea Mom Awards ?
DH and I had a 30 min discussion.... er, debate about this last night. He thinks BFing should not be allowed, as there are certain standards when that uniform is worn. He likened it to the girl who posed for Playboy while enlisted and was thrown out of the military - he says there's just certain things you don't do in uniform.
I'm on the fence on the issue. I understand there are certain standards that you must abide by when in uniform, but as a BFing mother with no problems NIP, I believe they should be allowed to BF - perhaps not with the shirt hiked up all the way though. There are ways to be discrete while NIP - it drives DH bananas (not in a good way) that I feel comfortable NIP without a cover, but I usually wear looser shirts when we go out so I'm able to NIP and not show anything. The military makes maternity uniforms to accomodate pregnant soldiers - why not a uniform nursing cover for BFing soldiers so they can feed their babies and be discrete?
So there's this boy. He kinda stole my heart. He calls me "Mom"
Voted "Mom of the Year" 2012 Sweetpea Mom Awards
I'm wondering if the military would ,at the very least, have to follow the state law concerning NIP. For example in Illinois you have the right to nurse wherever you have the right to be. So would a soldier on Scott AFB have the right to nurse regardless of being in uniform because of that law?
I have no clue if this is true or not. Can someone with more military knowledge fill me in?
Nursing is not sexual in the least and should not be likened to posing for Playboy-- that's an absurd comparison. Nursing is also not the same as chewing gum. Nursing promotes the health and welfare of children. Gum freshens breath. These are different stakes.
I'm not in the military but I do understand that these protocols are important for morale, etc. However, in the end they are purely symbolic, and should not be valued over the health and well-being of a child.
Nursing mothers have to breastfeed every two hours, and it would be impractical to completely remove the uniform (especially given the care that dressing in it seems to entail) every time the baby is hungry, especially when a young baby's appetite can often come without warning. Prohibiting moms from BFing in uniform would create harm in two major ways: it would discourage breastfeeding, which would harm infants by depriving them of the best nutrition available, and it would harm women, by enacting a standard that exclusively negatively impacts them, creating an additional barrier for moms in the military. It also implicitly sends the message that there is something dirty or improper about breastfeeding, or that it is "un-military-like," perhaps because it is inherently female and women in the military are expected to conform to male standards.