Nap/sleep hell (super longish)

megahof

Gang, I've got a multi-part problem, and I really hope someone can give me some suggestions or insight or reassuring words or maybe send me a stiff drink. This has to do with naps, bedtime and swaddling. So, let's go in that order.

Naps are awful. Obviously, if she gets too tired, it's way more difficult to get her to go to sleep. So, I try to keep an eye out for sleepy cues -- rubbing eyes, the first yawn, etc. -- and the minute I see them, I try to get her to go down for a nap. We follow the schedule that she has set, which is pretty consistent day to day, where she'll start to get tired after being awake for about 1.5-2 hours. She will nap for anywhere from 20 minutes to 3 hours, and I never know how long it will be. When she gets tired, I'll pick her up, rock her, sing to her, change her, close the curtains in her room, give her either a bottle or a boob, and everything is hunky dory until she realizes that she's almost asleep. No kidding, her eyes will be 99% closed, and probably 30 seconds away from actual sleep, and she will suddenly be wide awake, eyes completely open, and totally unhappy. I have to wonder what the point was of all the steps I just took, because she's just as hysterical as if I had done nothing and let her get overtired. It usually takes at least 45 minutes (and a small miracle) to get her to nap. This happens EVERY TIME, and at 3+ times a day for 3 months, it's getting draining.

Bedtime is worse. We have a pretty straightforward routine. Sometime between 8:30-9:30 each night (whenever she gives the first sleepy cue), we begin with a bath, which she loves. (Seriously, I think my babe would stay in the water all day if we let her -- she smiles, coos, and kicks and splashes up a storm as if she was just meant for bathtime and nothing else.) We wrap her up in a towel, doing a little waltz into her bedroom -- she's still smiling. We place her on the changing table, where she watches the mobile hanging from the ceiling -- still smiling. We grease her up with lotion, put on a fresh diaper and jammies -- still smiling. We sing songs to her -- still smiling and "ooo"ing back at us. We start to swaddle her -- all hell breaks loose. It doesn't matter when we swaddle, she screams bloody murder every time, whether it's before or after her last bottle.

Regarding swaddling: When Sophie was a newborn, she was a generally unhappy baby. If she was awake, she was screaming. (As Hubster just pointed out as I'm reading this aloud to him, that's putting it mildly, because she was pretty miserable.) As time has gone by, she's mellowed out about most things, only relatively softly crying during the day when she's hungry, or working herself up during the aforementioned nap times. Now it seems that the only thing that consistently pisses her off and gets her screaming is when we try to swaddle her. Truly, my baby gets MAD when we wrap her up tightly. I'm so conflicted about swaddling these days. Swaddling her makes the difference between 1 hour of sleep and 4+ hours of sleep, so it's no question that a swaddled Sophie sleeps better. In fact, except for the past couple days (which I posted about earlier), she's been sleeping through the night (~10pm-~7am), and I'm convinced that the swaddling contributes to that long stretch of sleep. But she is so miserable whenever we swaddle her. She screams so much that her face turns beet red, and she uses all her energy trying to break out of it. (We changed from a simple swaddling blanket to one of those SwaddleMe sacks with the velcro. She still often breaks out of it, but at least it's not in the first 5 minutes.) I don't know if it's worth making her so upset just for a few hours of sleep, if she associates being swaddled with the time to scream her head off.

And that's exactly what's happening right now. Hubster took her from me just now because I was about to lose it after we finished her bath and she started wailing. I know that I need to be calm and soothing because she will pick up on my emotions and react accordingly, but I worry that lately I'm doing more harm than good, since every noise out of her makes me tense up with a horrendous angst that a mother shouldn't feel towards her daughter. So, he's trying to calm her down, while I'm out here in the living room crying myself.

It's as if bedtime is the most horrible experience in the world for her, and nothing we do can convince her otherwise. Every night she pretty much screams until she passes out, with or without a bottle in her mouth. Surely it can't be healthy for her to go to bed so upset every night. I hate that everything we do to make bedtime a relaxing part of the day always turns into a fight. I so desperately want my baby to respond positively when I put on her jammies and start to rock her to sleep when she's so obviously tired. Meanwhile, my confidence as a mother has plummeted, since more and more frequently as the day gets later and bedtime approaches she shrieks when I get near her.

Please, someone tell me that I'm doing something horribly wrong so that I can change my tactics and make my baby enjoy the evening. I don't know if I can handle the prospect of dealing with this every night until she's 14 if it turns out that she's just a terribly fussy baby who hates going to sleep. If that is in fact the case, then please, someone tell me how you stay calm, because I'm walking a very fine line. I'd hate to think that it's my fault that she hates going to sleep so much, but I would rather that be the case, because then at least I would have a chance at fixing it.

BoilerUp1

megahof:

Gang, I've got a multi-part problem, and I really hope someone can give me some suggestions or insight or reassuring words or maybe send me a stiff drink. This has to do with naps, bedtime and swaddling. So, let's go in that order.

Naps are awful. Obviously, if she gets too tired, it's way more difficult to get her to go to sleep. So, I try to keep an eye out for sleepy cues -- rubbing eyes, the first yawn, etc. -- and the minute I see them, I try to get her to go down for a nap. We follow the schedule that she has set, which is pretty consistent day to day, where she'll start to get tired after being awake for about 1.5-2 hours. She will nap for anywhere from 20 minutes to 3 hours, and I never know how long it will be. When she gets tired, I'll pick her up, rock her, sing to her, change her, close the curtains in her room, give her either a bottle or a boob, and everything is hunky dory until she realizes that she's almost asleep. No kidding, her eyes will be 99% closed, and probably 30 seconds away from actual sleep, and she will suddenly be wide awake, eyes completely open, and totally unhappy. I have to wonder what the point was of all the steps I just took, because she's just as hysterical as if I had done nothing and let her get overtired. It usually takes at least 45 minutes (and a small miracle) to get her to nap. This happens EVERY TIME, and at 3+ times a day for 3 months, it's getting draining.

Bedtime is worse. We have a pretty straightforward routine. Sometime between 8:30-9:30 each night (whenever she gives the first sleepy cue), we begin with a bath, which she loves. (Seriously, I think my babe would stay in the water all day if we let her -- she smiles, coos, and kicks and splashes up a storm as if she was just meant for bathtime and nothing else.) We wrap her up in a towel, doing a little waltz into her bedroom -- she's still smiling. We place her on the changing table, where she watches the mobile hanging from the ceiling -- still smiling. We grease her up with lotion, put on a fresh diaper and jammies -- still smiling. We sing songs to her -- still smiling and "ooo"ing back at us. We start to swaddle her -- all hell breaks loose. It doesn't matter when we swaddle, she screams bloody murder every time, whether it's before or after her last bottle.

Regarding swaddling: When Sophie was a newborn, she was a generally unhappy baby. If she was awake, she was screaming. (As Hubster just pointed out as I'm reading this aloud to him, that's putting it mildly, because she was pretty miserable.) As time has gone by, she's mellowed out about most things, only relatively softly crying during the day when she's hungry, or working herself up during the aforementioned nap times. Now it seems that the only thing that consistently pisses her off and gets her screaming is when we try to swaddle her. Truly, my baby gets MAD when we wrap her up tightly. I'm so conflicted about swaddling these days. Swaddling her makes the difference between 1 hour of sleep and 4+ hours of sleep, so it's no question that a swaddled Sophie sleeps better. In fact, except for the past couple days (which I posted about earlier), she's been sleeping through the night (~10pm-~7am), and I'm convinced that the swaddling contributes to that long stretch of sleep. But she is so miserable whenever we swaddle her. She screams so much that her face turns beet red, and she uses all her energy trying to break out of it. (We changed from a simple swaddling blanket to one of those SwaddleMe sacks with the velcro. She still often breaks out of it, but at least it's not in the first 5 minutes.) I don't know if it's worth making her so upset just for a few hours of sleep, if she associates being swaddled with the time to scream her head off.

And that's exactly what's happening right now. Hubster took her from me just now because I was about to lose it after we finished her bath and she started wailing. I know that I need to be calm and soothing because she will pick up on my emotions and react accordingly, but I worry that lately I'm doing more harm than good, since every noise out of her makes me tense up with a horrendous angst that a mother shouldn't feel towards her daughter. So, he's trying to calm her down, while I'm out here in the living room crying myself.

It's as if bedtime is the most horrible experience in the world for her, and nothing we do can convince her otherwise. Every night she pretty much screams until she passes out, with or without a bottle in her mouth. Surely it can't be healthy for her to go to bed so upset every night. I hate that everything we do to make bedtime a relaxing part of the day always turns into a fight. I so desperately want my baby to respond positively when I put on her jammies and start to rock her to sleep when she's so obviously tired. Meanwhile, my confidence as a mother has plummeted, since more and more frequently as the day gets later and bedtime approaches she shrieks when I get near her.

Please, someone tell me that I'm doing something horribly wrong so that I can change my tactics and make my baby enjoy the evening. I don't know if I can handle the prospect of dealing with this every night until she's 14 if it turns out that she's just a terribly fussy baby who hates going to sleep. If that is in fact the case, then please, someone tell me how you stay calm, because I'm walking a very fine line. I'd hate to think that it's my fault that she hates going to sleep so much, but I would rather that be the case, because then at least I would have a chance at fixing it.

 

OMG I could have written this post.  Every detail is my son to the "t".  Although, we stopped swaddling him this week.  He's sleeping like crap anyways and hates it so we thought it was time to get him out of it.  It hasn't helped or hurt his sleep.  It's all still the same.  Wish I could help but I will be stalking this thread to see what advice you get.  I need it too!  Here's hoping we both get some help, momma!  I hear you on the exhaustion! 

88eve88

What you've described is what our day was like today and I'm completely drained. I can't imagine going through it every single day ... {{{BIG HUGS}}} to you!

My DS isn't liking the swaddle much anymore, but will tolerate it if he's sleepy.  He breaks out almost every night now.  I'm afraid to remove the swaddle because I'm sure all sleep hell will break loose, so I ordered a magic sleepsuit to bridge the gap between swaddle and no swaddle.  I'm seriously praying (more like pleading/begging) that it will work!! 

Naps are hit and miss for us now too.  Usually, I can get him down for at least one good nap, but I have to be completely on my game.  Ever since DS hit 3 months, his naps have gone out the window and are no longer predictable.  Like your LO, he'll look like he's about to fall into a deep sleep, but then he'll stir and his eyes will pop open and all my efforts go out the window.  I get super frustrated (and somewhat tense) every single time!  I'm trying really hard to let it go though ...

Tonight, my DS cried and screamed more than he has in a long time because he only napped maybe 45 mins all day.  I know he was seriously overtired, so we moved up our bedtime routine, but probably not early enough.  He screamed no matter what we tried, but in the end, his tank ran empty and we were able to bounce him to sleep.  He was so worked up though that he woke up only after 5 mins and had to be bounced again.  Poor little guy.

My only suggestion is perhaps 8:30/9:30 is too late for bedtime, especially if LO is overtired.  Is she a happy camper in the evenings?  DS is ready for sleep around 7-7:30pm usually and lets us know with all his fussing.  IF she hates the swaddle so much, maybe it's time to get rid of it.  It's causing too much stress!  Do you swaddle for naps too?

Maybe also change up your bedtime routine a bit ... after bath/jammies, do quiet reading in your lap and cuddles, or eat and then gently rock/bounce her.  

Don't feel badly ... you're a great mom!  Sophie just needs to figure things out, hopefully sooner rather than later.  It won't always be like this.  Hang in there!

megahof

88eve88:

What you've described is what our day was like today and I'm completely drained.

I hate that it's happening to you, too, but it's so reassuring to know I'm not the only one! 

88eve88:

I ordered a magic sleepsuit to bridge the gap between swaddle and no swaddle.  I'm seriously praying (more like pleading/begging) that it will work!! 

I'd be very curious to know how that works. 

88eve88:

My only suggestion is perhaps 8:30/9:30 is too late for bedtime, especially if LO is overtired.  Is she a happy camper in the evenings

We tried moving bedtime up to 8pm tonight, since she hadn't been napping well and she seemed tired. Unfortunately, it was still a screamfest. Normally, she's up and pretty happy at that time, so I'd never worried about keeping her up too late. I'm also afraid that if I put her to bed sooner, then that would mean she'd wake up sooner. Is there any validity to that thought?

88eve88:

Do you swaddle for naps too? 

 

Only rarely, when she gets herself worked into hysterics after crossing that line into overtired -- it's the only thing that will calm her down. She usually doesn't need it during the day. Our problem is that during naps she falls asleep on our laps, and then stirs when we try to put her down. The past couple days we've been letting her nap on our laps just because she's needed the sleep so badly. 

88eve88

megahof:

 I'm also afraid that if I put her to bed sooner, then that would mean she'd wake up sooner. Is there any validity to that thought?

I'm reading "Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child" right now, and according to the author, the opposite happens.  The earlier they go to sleep, the longer they will sleep.  He says it's not logical, but that's what happens.  I have yet to see it for myself, but I think he might be referring to well-rested children.

My DS doesn't seem to nap well EXCEPT in his crib, swaddled.  I've tried the stroller and carseat and he only takes 10-15 mins catnaps.  If your LO can fall asleep in your lap, I say go with it!  When she's able to organize her naps, it'll be easier to set her down. 

kristin172429

Okay, you are going to think I am a little nuts, but....what happens if you don't do any nap ritual?  If she starts getting sleepy and she is in a place where she could sleep safely and comfortably, have you thought about just leaving her where she is and just seeing if she dozes off.  I am not a "get them in the crib" kind of person.  I know we'll work on that at some point and Ben will nap in his crib occasionally, but so often, he just naps wherever he got tired.  He dozed off and slept for two and a half hours on the couch today (don't worry - he is totally safe the way he sleeps there).

And this might bite me in the butt later, but we don't do a bedtime ritual either.  I just put him in his PJs after 7 p.m. (whenever his diaper change happens).  He falls asleep wherever he is and then I just bring him into the bedroom when we go to bed.  He normally sleeps from about 10-3, is up for about 15 minutes to eat, and then back to sleep until around 7.  If we don't have anything going on, I'll hang out with him in the bed (he's in our room), and he'll fall asleep for his morning nap from about 7:30 - 8:30/9 and I get a little more sleep, too!

As for the swaddling, since she freaks out when you do it, what are the chances you could let her get into a deep sleep and swaddle her then? Just trying to come up with ideas!!  So sorry you are having such a hard time.

katea81

I am so sorry you are going through this-- if it helps we have been having a hard time lately with naps and bedtime. I just said to my hubby last night, "where did our good baby go? I want him back!"

I read somewhere (and can't remember where) that once they are yawning, etc then they are already tired. I've been working on trying to get Mikey in his crib before he hits the wall....because once this happens its next to impossible to get him to sleep.  Right now I go by his cues still, but I try to put him in his crib about an hour and 15 min after he last woke up. I just pick him up, rock him in my arms while walking around and then place him in the crib with the sound machine on.  Most of the time he still cries, but then at least he gives his sleep cues in his crib. We are trying to get him to go to bed earlier at night too.    I know it's not a huge piece of advice, but it is at least something tangible you could try. 

 

megahof

kristin172429:

Okay, you are going to think I am a little nuts, but....what happens if you don't do any nap ritual?  If she starts getting sleepy and she is in a place where she could sleep safely and comfortably, have you thought about just leaving her where she is and just seeing if she dozes off.  I am not a "get them in the crib" kind of person.  I know we'll work on that at some point and Ben will nap in his crib occasionally, but so often, he just naps wherever he got tired.  He dozed off and slept for two and a half hours on the couch today (don't worry - he is totally safe the way he sleeps there).

...

As for the swaddling, since she freaks out when you do it, what are the chances you could let her get into a deep sleep and swaddle her then? Just trying to come up with ideas!!  So sorry you are having such a hard time.

I don't think you're nuts at all. In fact, the nap ritual is fairly new -- I probably should have mentioned that. I've been trying the nap ritual for the past week or two because she no longer seems to doze off wherever she is. Like I said, she'll be almost asleep, but then wake herself up at the last minute, finding something interesting in the room that's more exciting than sleep. That's why I wanted to do naptime in her room, because I can make the room darker, and there are less things to stimulate her. Case in point: right now she's in her swing, and I'm watching her rub her eyes and yawn like crazy. But she is determined to keep her eyes open, if it kills her (or me). (I don't know what she thinks is going to happen while she's asleep -- I don't plan on playing with her toys or watching her mobile without her.) Unfortunately, neither leaving her be nor doing a nap ritual seems to work with her, and both end up with her wide awake and fussy.

Apparently Hubster tried your swaddling idea last night when he put her down, and it kind of backfired. She was still freaking out when he took her off the changing table (maybe she was expecting the swaddle?), so that didn't go away. She was sound asleep when he put her in the crib and swaddled her there, but she worked herself out of the swaddle within a half hour, and she started crying again. Le sigh. I'll try it again tonight, though, to see if there's a difference.

Thank you so much for the ideas -- if you have any more, throw them my way!! 

megahof

katea81:

I read somewhere (and can't remember where) that once they are yawning, etc then they are already tired. I've been working on trying to get Mikey in his crib before he hits the wall....because once this happens its next to impossible to get him to sleep.  Right now I go by his cues still, but I try to put him in his crib about an hour and 15 min after he last woke up. I just pick him up, rock him in my arms while walking around and then place him in the crib with the sound machine on.  Most of the time he still cries, but then at least he gives his sleep cues in his crib. We are trying to get him to go to bed earlier at night too.    I know it's not a huge piece of advice, but it is at least something tangible you could try.  

Sophie normally starts getting tired an hour and a half after waking up. Maybe I should try to get her in nap mode after an hour 15 -- stop the stimulating games, give her some food, start rocking her... It's certainly worth a shot, to try to head off the sleepiness before it even makes an appearance. I do appreciate the advice!!

megahof

88eve88:

megahof:

 I'm also afraid that if I put her to bed sooner, then that would mean she'd wake up sooner. Is there any validity to that thought?

I'm reading "Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child" right now, and according to the author, the opposite happens.  The earlier they go to sleep, the longer they will sleep.  He says it's not logical, but that's what happens.  I have yet to see it for myself, but I think he might be referring to well-rested children.

I wouldn't have believed you if I didn't see it for myself, but Sophie actually slept mostly through the night last night. We started our bedtime ritual at around 8 (about an hour earlier than usual) and she was asleep by 9:30. She woke up around 7. Maybe an earlier bedtime would help her sleep longer after all! 

88eve88

megahof:

88eve88:

megahof:

 I'm also afraid that if I put her to bed sooner, then that would mean she'd wake up sooner. Is there any validity to that thought?

I'm reading "Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child" right now, and according to the author, the opposite happens.  The earlier they go to sleep, the longer they will sleep.  He says it's not logical, but that's what happens.  I have yet to see it for myself, but I think he might be referring to well-rested children.

I wouldn't have believed you if I didn't see it for myself, but Sophie actually slept mostly through the night last night. We started our bedtime ritual at around 8 (about an hour earlier than usual) and she was asleep by 9:30. She woke up around 7. Maybe an earlier bedtime would help her sleep longer after all! 

Excellent!!  I'm glad it was a great night for you ... here's hoping you have many, many more! 

StangJK13

Maybe try the "woombie" swaddle? With this swaddle their arms do not have to be completely by their sides and I can normally get DD in this one the quickest with the least struggle. I think you are doing all the right things. Just hang in there. My other sleep trick for my LO is a white noise machine. Maybe play a relaxing sound on one of those while you do your bedtime routine. We play ours whenever we put LO down for a nap or bed and I think she now associates that sound with sleep. Good luck!