your 4 year old - sleeping and napping

Meg&Jesse

DS used to go to bed around 7:30/8:00 and up at 6:30, and take a 1-2 hour nap during the day.  We have been struggling with bedtime for about a month now, so we decided to drop naps.  DS now has quiet time instead of naps.  We thought this would help with bedtime; however it isn't helping as much as I thought.  DS still struggles to go to bed and is up earlier than ever (sometimes 5:45 am).  Yesterday we were super busy all day and he was so tired, yet he struggled to go to bed. 

So...is this just being 4 and adjusting to no nap?  Is he getting too little/too much sleep?  Usually I can go with the flow with the sleep and nap struggles, but I am a bit nervous with the baby coming and having to work through this. 

AgrippaRidesAgain

Both of my kids have been having trouble with going to sleep for about a month now, which I'm pretty sure exactly coincides with the extra light due to the time change.  Both have a history (particularly DS) of following the light patterns.  Fighting bedtime until it's dark and waking with the sun, despite blackout curtains.

But, if you don't think it's that, perhaps he's getting overtired now that he's napless and you actually need to move bedtime up?  When DS is overtired he goes into hyperdrive and has much more difficulty falling asleep.

jallascalla

My son did exactly the same thing around 3 1/2. We had six months of him going to bed around 7.45/8pm and getting up at 5am with no nap. I was worried he wasn't getting enough sleep until right around his 4th birthday it shifted again. Now he is in bed by 7.45 and up between 6.30 and 7am. I think it is just one of those phases they have to work through. I hope it is a shorter phase for you!

Meg&Jesse

AgrippaRidesAgain:

Both of my kids have been having trouble with going to sleep for about a month now, which I'm pretty sure exactly coincides with the extra light due to the time change.  Both have a history (particularly DS) of following the light patterns.  Fighting bedtime until it's dark and waking with the sun, despite blackout curtains.

But, if you don't think it's that, perhaps he's getting overtired now that he's napless and you actually need to move bedtime up?  When DS is overtired he goes into hyperdrive and has much more difficulty falling asleep.

I have thought about the daylight savings time and longer days with sunlight.  We have black sheets to go over the windows in the nursery, but DS just switched rooms and he just has regular blinds.  I am willing to bet this is a piece of it and he is just up when the birds start singing and the sun comes up.  Perhaps I can try the sheets over the windows in his room too. 

I also thought of moving bedtime up.  Yes, overtired is the worse! 

Meg&Jesse

jallascalla:

My son did exactly the same thing around 3 1/2. We had six months of him going to bed around 7.45/8pm and getting up at 5am with no nap. I was worried he wasn't getting enough sleep until right around his 4th birthday it shifted again. Now he is in bed by 7.45 and up between 6.30 and 7am. I think it is just one of those phases they have to work through. I hope it is a shorter phase for you!

Ahh...yes everything with sleep is a "phase" and normally I am okay just adjusting as we need too, even if it is for a few months.  Obviously with another LO on the way I am in slight panic mode.  Although, in some ways, I am so glad we are going through this now and starting this a few months before the baby comes.  Hopefully we can get through the worse part...or at least be at the tail end of the adjustment, before the baby comes.

And it does help just to have a reminder that this is a phase and he will adjust..thanks!

jsugrin

When you dropped the napped did you move his bed time up to compensate or leave it alone?  If you left it the same I'd bet he's overtired.  A couple things happen, 1. your body runs in cycles for example personally I run in three hours cycles so if I miss my bodies natural slowing and wanting to go to sleep (push myself through, keep reading my book, too busy around the house ect) then about 30-60min after I feel sleepy I start to get energized again (adrenaline kicking in) and will not be able to go to sleep until about 3 hours after my original tired time and 2. when any of us push through being tired our bodies start to produce adrenaline and often cortisol and then it's much, much harder to unwind, relax and go to sleep.  The 2nd is why you see some overtired kids that wind up and start bouncing off the walls instead of falling asleep as they stand.

I've move up his bedtime about an hour and then slowly start pushing it back to his typical time.  The early wake up is also an indication of being overtired.  He's transitioning between light and deep sleep all night, usually in 3 hour cycles but right after you fall asleep and right before you wake up your body does 1 hour cycles so an overtired child will wake up on that light sleep transition instead of sailing through it because their body is overstimulated and any little thing will bring them up and out of that transition instead of sailing through it.  Starts a rough cycle because then you've got the start of another day with an overtired child.

Meg&Jesse

jsugrin:

When you dropped the napped did you move his bed time up to compensate or leave it alone? 

This makes a lot of sense.  What time do I use though for making bedtime an hour earlier?  Ideally DS seems to do the best if he is in bed around 7:30 and sleeping around 8/8:15ish.  However, he has been falling asleep around 9:00 the past month.  So...do I move it up an hour based on his "ideal" sleep time or the time he was falling asleep before dropping the nap?

Tonight he fell asleep within 20 minutes of laying down...which is huge!  Hoping this makes for a good morning.

shannm

Sounds similar to my DS.  He goes down at around 8-9 and is up between 5-7.  He naps 0-2 hours per day after lunch.  

I don't see it as a problem.  DS just lays in his bed till he falls asleep.  If he gets up earlier than we want, we ask him to read books or play in his room till at least 6am.  And at this point, unless his behavior is horrible, we let him chose whether or not to actually sleep at nap time.

Does your DS get outside often?  Activity and fresh air always make things smoother for us. 

jlw2505

Sounds to me like he might be overtired when you put him to bed.  My 4 year old goes to sleep at around 7pm (sometimes 7:30 or 8 on the weekends) and wakes up at 6:15 during the week and anytime between 7 and 7:30 on the weekends (every so often she will sleep until 8 on the weekends but not often).  She has a 2 hour quiet time at school and they wake her after 30-45 mins and she then reads a book and on the weekends, we let her sleep or have quiet time for around an hour give or take - we judge the time based on her behavior and if she is having a really hard morning, we let her sleep/be quiet in her room longer as we know her behavior stems from being tired.  I would try pushing bedtime back about 30 mins and see if that helps. 

bim38106

Meg&Jesse:

jsugrin:

When you dropped the napped did you move his bed time up to compensate or leave it alone? 

This makes a lot of sense.  What time do I use though for making bedtime an hour earlier?  Ideally DS seems to do the best if he is in bed around 7:30 and sleeping around 8/8:15ish.  However, he has been falling asleep around 9:00 the past month.  So...do I move it up an hour based on his "ideal" sleep time or the time he was falling asleep before dropping the nap?

Tonight he fell asleep within 20 minutes of laying down...which is huge!  Hoping this makes for a good morning.

I agree w/ what pps are saying. We had to move DD1's bedtime up an hour from when her original bedtime was while she napped...even though when she did nap, she wasn't going to sleep at a reasonable time - think 11-midnight even though bedtime was 9pm. So we moved bedtime to 8pm and she would fall asleep quickly. Now we can stretch her more because it's been about 5 months of no naps, but before, if we put her down too late, it would take her forever to fall asleep and she would wake up even earlier in the morning.

FWIW, before, she would sleep 9pm-9am and take a 1-2 hour nap. Now, with no nap, she sleeps 8:30-8. But, if we have a late night, she'll wake up at 7:30 instead..

lmdbww

DD is almost 4 and dropped her regular nap before Christmas!  It's gotten better lately, but for months there we had the same issue, we know she was overtired but she fought bedtime, or she would fall asleep in the car on the way home (5 pm) and wake up between dinner and bedtime and be a complete mess!

It's gotten alot better though, and depending on how hard she plays during the day, about half of the time she'll wake up fine (and go to bed around her usual bedtime), and the other half i'm able to put her to bed when we get home and she wakes up usual time the next morning.

I tried moving her bedtime and it didn't really help. For us it was just a phase that we had to wait to pass until her body got adjusted to less sleep.