Another HR question (long)

prncsstp

So my sister lives in CT, and I know laws are different everywhere, but Im hoping the HR ladies (and anyone else) has some input or advice:

 My sis works for a water company. She has been working there for over 4 years. She started in customer service, and about 6 months ago was given an outside sales job. The outside sales job paid significantly more (about $10,000 per year).

 Her boss always told her she was doing a great job, and she did have months where she was the best salesperson on the team. But they just hired someone else who vastly outperformed my sister last month. Without warning, my sis was pulled into the office today, and was told that she was receiving a demotion back to the customer service dept, because she was underperforming. They said they werent outright firing her because they value her, and want to see her in a dept where she shined, other BS, etc.

She was too stunned to ask questions, but is assuming that her pay rate is decreasing back to the old level. She has two kids, and really needs that extra $$. So, she wants to look for a new job (esp now that she has outside sales experience). However, when she gets put back into the office, there is NO WAY for her to leave work during office hours to interview anywhere.

She feels like she would have been almost better off if they outright fired her, becasue then she could have at least collected unemployment and started looking for something better.

 Now for my question - I told her that she should go back to the powers that be, and tell them she needs more money, even if she is working at customer service. And if (when) they say no, she should flat out tell them that she would have preferred being fired, in hopes that they do fire her. Because she is worried if she doesnt accept the demotion, then essentially she would be quitting, and therefore wouldnt qualify for unemployment (esp because she thinks the company would challenge her unemployment claim).

So what say you HR folk???? Any advice for my sister? 

Sunidaze

Now for my question - I told her that she should go back to the powers that be, and tell them she needs more money, even if she is working at customer service. And if (when) they say no, she should flat out tell them that she would have preferred being fired, in hopes that they do fire her. Because she is worried if she doesnt accept the demotion, then essentially she would be quitting, and therefore wouldnt qualify for unemployment (esp because she thinks the company would challenge her unemployment claim).

The part bolded up there, that would just be outright stupid.  Now granted, I have actually walked off a job before and told them what they could do with it.  She needs to talk to them, plead her case and hear them out...but don't just essentially give them an ultimatum.  If possible, if she wants to, look for other opportunities for growth within the company, let management know that is what she wants to do.  But to say 'do this or fire me' well...that's burning a bridge right there...she better be darn sure that's a bridge she wants to burn, does she want a good reference from this employer?

prncsstp

Sunidaze:

Now for my question - I told her that she should go back to the powers that be, and tell them she needs more money, even if she is working at customer service. And if (when) they say no, she should flat out tell them that she would have preferred being fired, in hopes that they do fire her. Because she is worried if she doesnt accept the demotion, then essentially she would be quitting, and therefore wouldnt qualify for unemployment (esp because she thinks the company would challenge her unemployment claim).

The part bolded up there, that would just be outright stupid.  Now granted, I have actually walked off a job before and told them what they could do with it.  She needs to talk to them, plead her case and hear them out...but don't just essentially give them an ultimatum.  If possible, if she wants to, look for other opportunities for growth within the company, let management know that is what she wants to do.  But to say 'do this or fire me' well...that's burning a bridge right there...she better be darn sure that's a bridge she wants to burn, does she want a good reference from this employer?

 So in her current upset state, she doesnt want to go back to plead her case - even though Ive told her that she needs to.

My thought is that they arent going to fire her right now - they do like her, but apparently didnt like her enough as an outside sales person - thats why they didnt fire her to begin with. But - she really doesnt want to take a $10,000 pay decrease either.

And if she quits, she cant collect unemployment, shes stuck between a rock and a hard place... which is why i suggested that maybe she say that she would have rather been fired.

Alas, I know thats not the best answer - so Im hoping for some better advice!

vigurl

Yes what happened is leagal/yes then can do that to her.

No I would not go back and ask for more $ if I were her.  That will most likely get her fired and if she is fired no one is going to hire her for an outside sales job with only 6 months of outsides sales experince.  She really needs to have at least 1 year.

Yes it sucks but if I were her I would also if there is a more jr. sales role that she can transition to so she can strengthen her sales exp (and also getmore $).

Sunidaze

So I have a question - this $10,000 increase only occurred 6 months ago.  Has she already gotten used to this that it would be a huge hardship to go back?  Or was she living well above her means previously?  Yes...it sucks...this we know.  It would hugely suck to take a paycut.  I've had to do it (see above when I said that I have walked off a job).  Yes, this is a sucky situation, but she needs to find a way to make it positive.  Ask what other opportunities there may be for her within the company and what the company is willing to do to help her achieve these.  If she wants to start looking for a job, does she not have PTO time she could use to do this?  If she really wasn't good at outside sales, I'm going to imagine she wasn't exactly happy doing it, only doing it for the money which isn't going to work in the long run

MrsSparklesMcGee

I think she needs to set up a meeting with her supervisor and say the following things:

1. She would like to hear the reasoning for the decision to move her back to the customer service dept.  She should explain that - to her - it felt sudden especially given the prior feedback she received.  She should come prepared with the facts of her sales success.

2. Armed with those facts, she should ask what steps she could have taken to have remained in that position.  This is where she should try to work with them on a plan to get back in sales.

3. If they tell her an eventual move back to sales is outright impossible, I would recommend that she says to them something along the lines of "given my reduced salary, I will need to begin looking for jobs elsewhere.  I will work with you as much as possible on coverage for any time I need to be away from the office, but this is a step that I must take."

I really think that's her only option if she wants to keep her relationships intact.

CarlaAndJames

Why can't she look for another job while keeping her current one? Use email as a way to contact people, step outside or into a conference room to take phone calls if she doesn't have an office. Take a sick day/personal day/vacation day whatever she has for interviews. I'm sure they wouldn't blame her or even be surprised she's looking elsewhere after the demotion.

prncsstp

Sunidaze:

So I have a question - this $10,000 increase only occurred 6 months ago.  Has she already gotten used to this that it would be a huge hardship to go back?  Or was she living well above her means previously?  Yes, this is a sucky situation, but she needs to find a way to make it positive.  Ask what other opportunities there may be for her within the company and what the company is willing to do to help her achieve these.  If she wants to start looking for a job, does she not have PTO time she could use to do this?  If she really wasn't good at outside sales, I'm going to imagine she wasn't exactly happy doing it, only doing it for the money which isn't going to work in the long run

I think she needs to set up a meeting with her supervisor and say the following things:

1. She would like to hear the reasoning for the decision to move her back to the customer service dept.  She should explain that - to her - it felt sudden especially given the prior feedback she received.  She should come prepared with the facts of her sales success.

2. Armed with those facts, she should ask what steps she could have taken to have remained in that position.  This is where she should try to work with them on a plan to get back in sales.

3. If they tell her an eventual move back to sales is outright impossible, I would recommend that she says to them something along the lines of "given my reduced salary, I will need to begin looking for jobs elsewhere.  I will work with you as much as possible on coverage for any time I need to be away from the office, but this is a step that I must take."

I really think that's her only option if she wants to keep her relationships intact.

Well, shes poor. Always has been poor, and she has NO CONCEPT of a budget. She lives paycheck to paycheck despite getting the raise. Also, her circumstances have changed somewhat... she was living with her BF but their relationship was no good, so after she got the bump in pay, she realized she could afford to pay her rent without him, so they broke up. So the drop in pay does effect her bill pay - although she doesnt have anything that she went ahead and bought because of her pay raise (ie no new car, she actually got rid of cable).

So I think she can definitely live off of the customer service salary, but I think its having the taste of more $$, then losing it. I mean she would be down to taking home $400 per week after taxes... having two kids, and a $900/month rent - that money wont go far.

I think she does have PTO, but usually saves that for things like school breaks/sick kids/etc. when she doesnt hav childcare, but yes, I think she would have to use what PTO she had for interviews...

She was good at sales though... Her boss always told her she was doing great - and she was the top performer at least once in the 6 month period (possibly twice - I dont recall exactly). So this has come as somewhat of a shock. She never received warning that she wasnt performing up to snuff. She did enjoy working in sales, and is a very personable person, so she has the right temperment... but yes, I agree that only 6 months of experience isnt ideal for looking for a new sales job. She also only has a HS diploma, so some sales jobs might be difficult to get due to lack of a degree.

I do like all of the numbered suggestions above...I think she really doesnt want to go back to HR and her supervisors for another meeting, but I do think that is her only option besides quitting - which doesnt do her any good in terms of income.