Does this seem weird to you?

may2806

Sorry to be a PW, but I wanted to put this in a separate post. During my meeting with the reproductive immunologist, I got quite frustrated when the subject of frozen embryos came up (see my other post). I said that it wasn't guaranteed that I would have frosties since my clinic only says that only 30 percent of couples using DE get frosties. He thought this was really weird and kept saying, "I don't understand that, how could that be?" and then "Are you locked into this clinic?"

Now, I know that it's weird. Anecdotally just about everyone I know on the board who has used DE has frosties. When I've asked my clinic about it, they say that they only freeze embies they are confident would survive the thaw, and that other clinics freeze embryos that aren't going to make it. And it's not like this is particular to me, like we might have an embie quality problem. This goes for everyone. 

I don't want to switch clinics. They have a very high success rate for fresh cycles. I don't want to change to a clinic with lower success rates just so I can have a FET - that seems to be backwards thinking. Plus I really like them there, they know me, etc. But at the same time I still don't get it - I don't want to think that they're throwing away perfectly good embies just so couples would have to do another fresh cycle (so they'd get more money). Maybe they do somehow have a higher freezing standard?

This made me quite upset with the RI because I got the feeling like he thought my clinic was crap. I don't know what to think. I have an appt with my RE at the end of the month and I'm going to ask her if I can renew my consent form and just have them freeze everything. My donor nurse says they have done that for religious reasons, etc. When I told the RI this he said, "Well that's no good, no point in freezing bad embies." But if they won't/can't differentiate from bad embies and embies that *may* make it, I'd just rather them freeze it all. 

I'm very frustrated about this! Thoughts?

vanessagorc

Well i think it's 2 fold.

With a good donor, i think everyone hopes for frosties...and it seems the norm on the boards.  But it may not be reflected in the stats, and they prob want to keep ur expectations down.

I know my clinic has VERY HIGH freezing standards and quotes 20% frosties for regular patients.  I hope DE is higher bc the average age at Corn.ell is NOT young.

I also do see the RI's point.  For that money, ud hope for some frosties.  But I don't really see the point in freezing crap embies, and paying to store them. 

What are the freeze standards?  At my clinic its grade 1 and 2 expanded blasts.

theworms

It is frustrating.

I would say that a majority of ladies using DE, especially not split cycles, do have frosties but obviously there are others who don't get frosties.  There are lots of reasons why you wouldn't get frosties. 

Do you have MFI at all?  That could impact embryo quality and lack of frosties.

What is your clinics freezing policy?  Do they use vitrification or old school freezing?  

my clinic only freezes highest grade expanded blasts on day 5 or 6. 

i wouldn't want frosties if they weren't good quality and wouldn't survive thaw, i feel like it is a false sense of security and that you have more tries when you actually may not. 

Dr. B can be special and at times frustrating but i am so glad i cycled with him.  He has tendency to think ahead to future cycles and that would always annoy me.  I finally told him we didn't have unlimited money and we needed to treat the cycle as possibly are last shot and what would he do.  

may2806

theworms:

Do you have MFI at all?  That could impact embryo quality and lack of frosties.

What is your clinics freezing policy?  Do they use vitrification or old school freezing?  

my clinic only freezes highest grade expanded blasts on day 5 or 6. 

i wouldn't want frosties if they weren't good quality and wouldn't survive thaw, i feel like it is a false sense of security and that you have more tries when you actually may not. 

I don't know exactly the actual grades, but I'm sure it's also highest grade expanded on day 6. Not sure, but I don't think they use vitrification. We don't have MFI and the blasts we transfer are always good - so it does seem strange that there wouldn't be more than just 2. Like I said, this isn't just for me; they always told me their freeze rate is low. But if they are not freezing embies that they could, I'd rather just tell them to freeze everything since this will be my last fresh cycle ever.

theworms

may2806:

theworms:

Do you have MFI at all?  That could impact embryo quality and lack of frosties.

What is your clinics freezing policy?  Do they use vitrification or old school freezing?  

my clinic only freezes highest grade expanded blasts on day 5 or 6. 

i wouldn't want frosties if they weren't good quality and wouldn't survive thaw, i feel like it is a false sense of security and that you have more tries when you actually may not. 

I don't know exactly the actual grades, but I'm sure it's also highest grade expanded on day 6. Not sure, but I don't think they use vitrification. We don't have MFI and the blasts we transfer are always good - so it does seem strange that there wouldn't be more than just 2. Like I said, this isn't just for me; they always told me their freeze rate is low. But if they are not freezing embies that they could, I'd rather just tell them to freeze everything since this will be my last fresh cycle ever.

it seems like with DE and no MFI you would get a frostie or two.  if you are cool with them freezing everything then i guess let them.  GL cutie.

may2806

theworms:

may2806:

theworms:

Do you have MFI at all?  That could impact embryo quality and lack of frosties.

What is your clinics freezing policy?  Do they use vitrification or old school freezing?  

my clinic only freezes highest grade expanded blasts on day 5 or 6. 

i wouldn't want frosties if they weren't good quality and wouldn't survive thaw, i feel like it is a false sense of security and that you have more tries when you actually may not. 

I don't know exactly the actual grades, but I'm sure it's also highest grade expanded on day 6. Not sure, but I don't think they use vitrification. We don't have MFI and the blasts we transfer are always good - so it does seem strange that there wouldn't be more than just 2. Like I said, this isn't just for me; they always told me their freeze rate is low. But if they are not freezing embies that they could, I'd rather just tell them to freeze everything since this will be my last fresh cycle ever.

it seems like with DE and no MFI you would get a frostie or two.  if you are cool with them freezing everything then i guess let them.  GL cutie.

I mean I'd prefer to just freeze the best ones, but they don't seem to ever think anything is good enough. That's where my frustration is coming in. 

theworms

may2806:

theworms:

may2806:

theworms:

Do you have MFI at all?  That could impact embryo quality and lack of frosties.

What is your clinics freezing policy?  Do they use vitrification or old school freezing?  

my clinic only freezes highest grade expanded blasts on day 5 or 6. 

i wouldn't want frosties if they weren't good quality and wouldn't survive thaw, i feel like it is a false sense of security and that you have more tries when you actually may not. 

I don't know exactly the actual grades, but I'm sure it's also highest grade expanded on day 6. Not sure, but I don't think they use vitrification. We don't have MFI and the blasts we transfer are always good - so it does seem strange that there wouldn't be more than just 2. Like I said, this isn't just for me; they always told me their freeze rate is low. But if they are not freezing embies that they could, I'd rather just tell them to freeze everything since this will be my last fresh cycle ever.

it seems like with DE and no MFI you would get a frostie or two.  if you are cool with them freezing everything then i guess let them.  GL cutie.

I mean I'd prefer to just freeze the best ones, but they don't seem to ever think anything is good enough. That's where my frustration is coming in. 

what clinic are you at?  if you don't feel comfortable posting, pm me the name please.

mtlaurel

may2806,

I'm doing DE @ i.v.f.nj, too. I was initially very put off by their freezing standards, too. It does seem like a way for them to make couples have to repeat fresh cycles, and since we're doing a shared cycle, it seems like a guarantee that we'd have to repeat.

On the other hand, I think the fact that they only freeze on day 6 is partially responsible for their very good fresh DE success rates. As far as I know, they do not vitrify (which kind of surprises me), and their DE FET rates are not that great. I'm sure I'm just rationalizing for myself, but I see the tough freeze policy as a trade-off for high fresh success rates. Also, I was a little comforted when I got a donor profile this week and multiple frozen embryos had resulted from both of her previous cycles.

So, if you really want to freeze them all, then ask, and after all you've been through, I would hope they would do it for you. But, if you haven't already picked a donor, can you add a requirement that it be someone who has had frozen embryos result in previous cycles so that you stand a better chance of getting some?

Good luck.

may2806

theworms:

may2806:

theworms:

may2806:

theworms:

Do you have MFI at all?  That could impact embryo quality and lack of frosties.

What is your clinics freezing policy?  Do they use vitrification or old school freezing?  

my clinic only freezes highest grade expanded blasts on day 5 or 6. 

i wouldn't want frosties if they weren't good quality and wouldn't survive thaw, i feel like it is a false sense of security and that you have more tries when you actually may not. 

I don't know exactly the actual grades, but I'm sure it's also highest grade expanded on day 6. Not sure, but I don't think they use vitrification. We don't have MFI and the blasts we transfer are always good - so it does seem strange that there wouldn't be more than just 2. Like I said, this isn't just for me; they always told me their freeze rate is low. But if they are not freezing embies that they could, I'd rather just tell them to freeze everything since this will be my last fresh cycle ever.

it seems like with DE and no MFI you would get a frostie or two.  if you are cool with them freezing everything then i guess let them.  GL cutie.

I mean I'd prefer to just freeze the best ones, but they don't seem to ever think anything is good enough. That's where my frustration is coming in. 

what clinic are you at?  if you don't feel comfortable posting, pm me the name please.

It's ok, I don't mind talking about it since it might help other posters. I'm at IVF NJ. I just looked up their SART rates and compared them with Cornell (just wanted another random well known clinic): For DE frozen cycles IVFNJ had a 50 percent live birth rate (36 cycles); for Cornell 26.2 (84 cycles). So maybe there is something to their method? Idk.

vanessagorc

Just an FYI on corn.ell. U have to take their sart w a grain of salt.  They take the hardest patients for all over the world, patients other clinics have up on.  

 

Some of their de patients are literally already om menopause.  It's an interesting clinic, that can't be judged on sart alone.  They are also a non profit, so have no reason to turn patient away bc they will neg skew sart (like my previous) clinic did.   

theworms

babystinkbreath used to be at IVFNJ

if you're interested in hearing her experience page her

GL cutie

may2806

vanessagorc:

Just an FYI on corn.ell. U have to take their seat w a grain of salt.  They take the hardest patients for all over the world, patients other clinics have up on.  

 

Some of their de patients are literally already om menopause.  It's an interesting clinic, that can't be judged on sart alone.  They are also a non profit, so have no reason to turn patient away bc they will neg skew sart (like my previous) clinic did.   

I used to be a Cornell patient, so I know the deal there... I am literally in menopause too (although I'm only 36) - many/most women doing DE are in or close to menopause. It's really not a factor when doing DE because they just build up your lining - your ovaries don't really factor in. 

I know Cornell is great but with DE I think they are on a more even playing field with other clinics.  

may2806

mtlaurel:

may2806,

I'm doing DE @ i.v.f.nj, too. I was initially very put off by their freezing standards, too. It does seem like a way for them to make couples have to repeat fresh cycles, and since we're doing a shared cycle, it seems like a guarantee that we'd have to repeat.

On the other hand, I think the fact that they only freeze on day 6 is partially responsible for their very good fresh DE success rates. As far as I know, they do not vitrify (which kind of surprises me), and their DE FET rates are not that great. I'm sure I'm just rationalizing for myself, but I see the tough freeze policy as a trade-off for high fresh success rates. Also, I was a little comforted when I got a donor profile this week and multiple frozen embryos had resulted from both of her previous cycles.

So, if you really want to freeze them all, then ask, and after all you've been through, I would hope they would do it for you. But, if you haven't already picked a donor, can you add a requirement that it be someone who has had frozen embryos result in previous cycles so that you stand a better chance of getting some?

Good luck.

I actually picked the donor I used on my first cycle (the ectopic). She went on to be one of their best donors according to my donor nurse - one of her cycles had 4 frosties, but none of the others did.

I actually think a 50% FET success rate is pretty good? 

If I have any other IVF NJ issues can I PM you? It's nice to talk to someone at the same clinic. 

vanessagorc

I was referring to the patients in their 50's when I said menopause,  I know That's the case of a lot de patients.  But I meant women in their 50's. 

 

 

vanessagorc

vanessagorc:

I was referring to the patients in their 50's when I said menopause,  I know That's the case of a lot de patients.  But I meant women in their 50's. 

 

 

I'm also not a patient w corn.ell blinders on, and they aren't famous for de.  I'm just saying I always take their sart w a grain of salt.  

may2806

vanessagorc:

vanessagorc:

I was referring to the patients in their 50's when I said menopause,  I know That's the case of a lot de patients.  But I meant women in their 50's. 

 

 

I'm also not a patient w corn.ell blinders on, and they aren't famous for de.  I'm just saying I always take their sart w a grain of salt.  

Yes, I know. When I was using my OE I couldn't even look at SART rates because the clinics that would take hard cases like mine had horrible stats compared to others who would only take "easy" cases.

I was more just looking to see how IVF NJ's DE FET rates compared to other clinics in general to see if there was anything to their freezing method. 

vanessagorc

may2806:

vanessagorc:

vanessagorc:

I was referring to the patients in their 50's when I said menopause,  I know That's the case of a lot de patients.  But I meant women in their 50's. 

 

 

I'm also not a patient w corn.ell blinders on, and they aren't famous for de.  I'm just saying I always take their sart w a grain of salt.  

Yes, I know. When I was using my OE I couldn't even look at SART rates because the clinics that would take hard cases like mine had horrible stats compared to others who would only take "easy" cases.

I was more just looking to see how IVF NJ's DE FET rates compared to other clinics in general to see if there was anything to their freezing method. 

Yeah do hey vitrify?  Bc corn.ell doesn't.  So heir thaw rates are only in the 80's vs 99.  Hencey my fear of doing a sfet.  So that could play a part.  Maybe compare w a clinic that vitrifies if Ivf mj does.  I know sirm vitrifies. That might give a better comparison?  

Gregermis

I think it wouldn't hurt to ask them to freeze them all.  Having worked in a cell lab (not fertility clinic) and getting to chat with my embryologist, see my own embies, etc... I don't think there is any way they wouldn't be able to pick out the "good ones".  There are going to be obvious "bad ones" that stopped growing etc... as well (and yes there will likely be a few iffy ones).

I'm surprised to here the 30% number.  That's around the number my clinic quoted me for non-DE cycles (being that it includes patients with DOR).  My RE told me the chance for me having frosties was much higher (but not a garuntee obviously).  Seems like they'd be picking people to be egg donors who would have a higher chance at getting frosties.

hmmmmmmmmmmm...