Delaying/Selective Vaccination

kristin720

Hi, Not sure where else to post this but figured the women on this board might have the most knowledge as to this topic. I am thinking that I will delay most of the usual vaccinations for my baby but have been doing research trying to find out which vaccines are the most critical and that we should do. Some things I have been asking myself are:

How common is the disease that the vaccination would protect against? Are there active cases here in the US?

 

How is the disease spread? If it is through sexual activity or drug use, etc, it wouldn't make much sense for a baby to get the vaccine...(even though I know "experts" try and tell you it is the best time for them to build immunity)

 

How serious would it be if my child actually contracted the disease? Are there treatments available once contracted? What is the mortality rate of the disease in young children?

 

What is the risk of the actual vaccine? What toxins are present in this vaccine and are there alternate formulas available with as little toxins as possible? (I know that the manufacturers of DTaP vary widely in the amount of aluminum present in the vaccine)

 

I was just wondering if other moms had already done this research and what conclusions they came to...

caralck

As a doctor answering this question, I would say, yes, there are cases of measles, pertussis, chicken pox, hemophilus influenza (HIB), pneumonia, tetanus, rotovirus, Hep B, and Hep A in the US.  If I were to selectively choose which ones to absolutely get right away, it would be pertussis, HIB, and pneumonia (prevnar) because those are a real threat to a newborn that could kill them or cause significant disability (HIB meningitis can cause deafness).  I'm not that sold on rotovirus as a necessity.  It's really a good one for kids in 3rd world countries where access to medical care is limited.  I will be doing all the shots (except rotovirus) primarily because I work in primary care and god knows what I'll be bringing home to baby and baby will actually be with me at work most days from 3-6 mo.  I'm waiting until 2 mo to do her Hep B.  One interesting comment I hear from parents who choose to delay vaccines is that they don't like exposing babies to too much at once.  Our immune systems are sophisticated and encounter at least 100,000 new antigens on a daily basis so it's really a drop in the bucket to be exposed to the 7 vaccines (it's really more than 7 diseases since the prevnar has a few different strains the baby gets protected against).  I no longer get into the debate with parents who choose to delay or do an alternative schedule.  I know I won't change their minds and they won't change mine and in the end, I just want to give the baby the best medical care I can.  If it means working with an non-immunized child, then so be it.  So far the herd immunity has seemed to protect most of those kids.

TrendyTina

Have you read Dr. Sears' book about vaccinations? It's structured just like your questions. I think you would like it. There is also a documentary called The Greater Good that discusses many of the issues. You might want to watch that as well. We will be delaying certain vaccines and primarily follow Dr. Sears' schedule instead of the CDC schedule.

https://www.amazon.com/The-Vaccine-Book-Decision-Parenting/dp/0316180521/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1332170505&sr=8-1

https://www.greatergoodmovie.org/home

aylafsu88

I am a FTM who is planing to do natural childbirth.  As a research scientist in immunology I have read a lot about what interventions are needed and not needed during the birthing process.   I think science is important and does play critical role in the developed world, however there are some things that are not necessarily needed and have come about for the convenience of doctors. 

With that being said, please vaccinate your child.  The big scare several years ago about the autism-MMR vaccine  by the UK Dr. Andrew Wakefield turned out to be a hoax.  He had fabricated data and it lied about results.  Since then people seem to be very scared about vaccines and think that they may not be a good thing, which is totally unfounded.

 The questions that you are asking do not really apply to childhood vaccines.  If you look at the list of vaccines- DTaP, hep B, Hib, PCV, polio, and rotavirus, NONE of these diseases are transmitted by sexual activity.   Also, there is a reason these diseases are not prevalent in the US, that is because we vaccinate against them.  These diseases WERE prevalent in the US in the 50's (i.e. polio) but have since dropped off because we now vaccinate against them.  If your child actually contracts these diseases it can be very serious.  Yes in developed countries like the US many people don't die from rotavirus which causes dysentery.  But in developing countries dysentery is a leading cause of infant and even adult death.  Take a look at some of the old video footage of children in iron lungs who were affected with polio, it is not a pretty picture. 

 The key reason that vaccines work is because of herd immunity.  If a majority of the population in the US vaccinate, the chances of contracting and spreading a disease are very limited becuase the herd (i.e population) is vaccinated.  If large majorities of people stop vaccinating that shifts the whole dynamic and these disease will become prevalent again in the US.  

The only suggestion I should make is to check for the preservatives that are found in the vaccine your pediatrician uses.  The preservative thimerosal which can be metabolized into heavy metals like mercury.  From the information I got most dr offices dont use the vaccines with this preservative in them but you can always double check by asking them and request that they use a preservative free vaccine. 

I plan to vaccinate my child but will do so using preservative free vaccines.  I know that that is what is best for my child based on the current data we have.

kristin720

aylafsu88:

 The questions that you are asking do not really apply to childhood vaccines.  If you look at the list of vaccines- DTaP, hep B, Hib, PCV, polio, and rotavirus, NONE of these diseases are transmitted by sexual activity.  

 

Actually Hepatitis B is commonly transmitted by sexual activity and sharing needles for drug use...

kristin720

aylafsu88:

With that being said, please vaccinate your child.  The big scare several years ago about the autism-MMR vaccine  by the UK Dr. Andrew Wakefield turned out to be a hoax.  He had fabricated data and it lied about results.  Since then people seem to be very scared about vaccines and think that they may not be a good thing, which is totally unfounded.

The only suggestion I should make is to check for the preservatives that are found in the vaccine your pediatrician uses.  The preservative thimerosal which can be metabolized into heavy metals like mercury.  From the information I got most dr offices dont use the vaccines with this preservative in them but you can always double check by asking them and request that they use a preservative free vaccine. 

 You are right, most of the childhood vaccines no longer contain mercury/thimerosal, however almost all contain high levels of aluminum as well as formaldehyde and other neurotoxins such as phenol

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_vaccine_ingredients- Ingredient information taken from the CDC

 These are things I wouldn't want to needlessly inject into my baby and are why I am trying to do thorough research as to which vaccines are critical to my baby's health and which ones I might be able to skip/delay.

kaeti_su

kristin--

I'm not sure what you consider to be a high level of aluminum, but this fact sheet linked by the CDC explains the amount and use of aluminum in vaccines: https://www.chop.edu/export/download/pdfs/articles/vaccine-education-center/aluminum.pdf      It is a pro-vaccine link, so do with that what you will. 

The CDC also links to this 2003 Pediatrics article about additives in vaccines: https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/112/6/1394.full  I haven't had time to read it, but it looks like it's worth checking out. 

pixieprincss

I agree that starting with the Dr. Sears Vaccine Book is one place to start. The book is pro-vaccine, but pro spacing them. I think that the CDC website is also a great source for gathering information. 

We are comfortable delaying Hep B in childhood as long as DS won't be a situation where he has an elevated risk of swapping blood with another kid (daycare, sports team, etc.) We also are comfortable delaying varicella in childhood. We will give both before adolescence.  I am ambivalent about the flu shot.  All the rest, we get at almost the CDC schedule. We do space out aluminum-containing shots and spread those if they are supposed to be stacked in a visit--we just go back for an extra visit one month later. We avoid aluminum in other ways, so the CDCs sheet on how we encounter it regularly so we shouldn't be concerned is a bit lame to me.

Pertussis was one that I felt strongly about getting as soon as DS was old enough, albeit we did order Tripedia brand over what the office normally gives. We also felt strongly about Rotovirus since we took DS on a cruise at 10 months. That said, he ended up getting Norovirus the last day, which gave us a taste of what Roto could look like. No fun!

caralck

Guess I'm not too worried about the preservatives since there really isn't much in there compared to the environmental exposures.  My FIL died recently from side effects of the treatment he received in childhood for polio.  He was the only child in that county and the surrounding counties who got polio that summer so there was no known person who gave it to him.  So while the odds of our child getting polio are slim, FIL's case shows that you don't need to be living somewhere with other cases of polio to be affected.  Honestly, that is the benefit of the combined shots over splitting them up.  Each of those individual shots has some sort of preservative vs getting one shot with 4-5 diseases covered with one dose of the preservative.  I found out my FP's office doesn't have the combo shot that our office uses but are thinking of getting it soon.  I sure hope so or I'll just have her get her shots at my office to cut down on how many stabs she has to get at once.  3 jabs over the 5 she'll get there.  No question what I'll choose!

tokenhoser

We chose to follow the usual schedule and I'm entirely comfortable with that. I will say that in Canada, Hep B is given in elementary school, not as a newborn.

My parents grew up before vaccines, so I guess they imparted on me how terrible it was to grow up in a place with polio and mumps and measles. I'm so happy and blessed to be part of an era where I don't have to wonder if my baby is going to get whooping cough and die. I can't imagine opting out over overhyped hypothetical dangers when the actual diseases are so horrific.

gimmietimmies

tokenhoser:

We chose to follow the usual schedule and I'm entirely comfortable with that. I will say that in Canada, Hep B is given in elementary school, not as a newborn.

My parents grew up before vaccines, so I guess they imparted on me how terrible it was to grow up in a place with polio and mumps and measles. I'm so happy and blessed to be part of an era where I don't have to wonder if my baby is going to get whooping cough and die. I can't imagine opting out over overhyped hypothetical dangers when the actual diseases are so horrific.

Agreed. And I'll be one for voting to get the varicella (chicken pox) vaccine. DS has been hospitalized several times because he has no immunity to it. Twice people sent unvaxed kids to school after a pox party (this was actually confirmed to me by one of the moms - I no longer speak to her for obvious reasons). DS was infected with shingles, and sent to reverse isolation in the hospital. One of the risks of chicken pox is the blisters can be suseptible to necrotizing fasciitis. I won't go off on the details, but those hospitalizations were brutal. And there were other kids that were there (in the infectious disease ward) with all sorts, most didn't have prior health complications like ds.

carlinlp

Overhyped hypothetical risks?  I have a severely vaccine injured child, those risks became very real for us. Vaccines almost killed my child.  It's not rare, the risks are real. I would recommend checking out the nvic.com. I like their ask 8 campaign.  If you do vaccinate, doing one at a time will help if your child has a reaction, you'll know what he or she is reacting to. I don't know when it became common place and normal to inject neuro toxins in to our children, it baffles me. I will also say its not just the metals. Phenols heavily damaged my child for the long term. He can't eat so much as an apple without phenol breaking enzymes or it will cause demyelination (brain damage to the myelin sheeth). The preservatives are a big concern. Please do your research, it's a tough decision either way. I usually get flamed for posting but oh well. We are used to making people uncomfortable, we are a real reminder that vaccines carry real risks. 

BelleIsa

carlinlp:

Overhyped hypothetical risks?  I have a severely vaccine injured child, those risks became very real for us. Vaccines almost killed my child.  It's not rare, the risks are real. I would recommend checking out the nvic.com. I like their ask 8 campaign.  If you do vaccinate, doing one at a time will help if your child has a reaction, you'll know what he or she is reacting to. I don't know when it became common place and normal to inject neuro toxins in to our children, it baffles me. I will also say its not just the metals. Phenols heavily damaged my child for the long term. He can't eat so much as an apple without phenol breaking enzymes or it will cause demyelination (brain damage to the myelin sheeth). The preservatives are a big concern. Please do your research, it's a tough decision either way. I usually get flamed for posting but oh well. We are used to making people uncomfortable, we are a real reminder that vaccines carry real risks. 

I'm sorry your LO had a reaction to his vaccines, but the bolded part above not really true.  Reactions to vaccines are rare.  Yes, the risk is there - but it is a RARE occurance for someone to react to a vaccine.

In any case, I'm quite happy to live in a world where children don't get Polio and die from other horrific childhood diseases, so I will be vaccinating DD on schedule, just like her big sister. To the PP, your child (who has a reaction to vaccines) is protected from these horrible illnesses by the herd immunity. ie - people like me who vaccinate their children. 

I work in a field that regularly has me travelling to 3rd world countries were I can SEE how important vaccines are. 

Space them out if you must - but please vaccinate. 

carlinlp

BelleIsa:

carlinlp:

Overhyped hypothetical risks?  I have a severely vaccine injured child, those risks became very real for us. Vaccines almost killed my child.  It's not rare, the risks are real. I would recommend checking out the nvic.com. I like their ask 8 campaign.  If you do vaccinate, doing one at a time will help if your child has a reaction, you'll know what he or she is reacting to. I don't know when it became common place and normal to inject neuro toxins in to our children, it baffles me. I will also say its not just the metals. Phenols heavily damaged my child for the long term. He can't eat so much as an apple without phenol breaking enzymes or it will cause demyelination (brain damage to the myelin sheeth). The preservatives are a big concern. Please do your research, it's a tough decision either way. I usually get flamed for posting but oh well. We are used to making people uncomfortable, we are a real reminder that vaccines carry real risks. 

I'm sorry your LO had a reaction to his vaccines, but the bolded part above not really true.  Reactions to vaccines are rare.  Yes, the risk is there - but it is a RARE occurance for someone to react to a vaccine.

In any case, I'm quite happy to live in a world where children don't get Polio and die from other horrific childhood diseases, so I will be vaccinating DD on schedule, just like her big sister. To the PP, your child (who has a reaction to vaccines) is protected from these horrible illnesses by the herd immunity. ie - people like me who vaccinate their children. 

I work in a field that regularly has me travelling to 3rd world countries were I can SEE how important vaccines are. 

Space them out if you must - but please vaccinate. 

VAERS reflects otherwise. Especially when you consider only around 10% of reactions are actually reported. "Rare" is only comforting if it doesn't come live at your house. I used to be VERY pro vaccine. Watching my son scream in pain 10 hours a day and suffer brain damage, stop walking and no longer speak, changed my views a bit. The vaccine decision is a tough one, no doubt, but there ARE risks on BOTH sides.  

caralck

Sounds like a horrific experience you went and go through now with your son.  Just curious which vaccine or vaccine component the neurologists attributed to this and i hope they ruled out other potential causes for it.  I would say that if one or both parents had a reaction to a shot, it would be worthwhile to tread carefully when giving the shot to a child.  I've only had a handful of kids who we did separate out the shots from the combo because of a parental reaction to a vaccine.

tokenhoser

carlinlp, do you really think all parents should refuse all vaccines for all their children?

I know you've been through hell, but I just can't fathom holding such an opinion. I guess the iron lung in our local museum still scares the crap out of me. If my kids couldn't be vaccinated, I would thank God most kids can and will be.

3003girl

I suggest searching the internet for the package inserts for each vaccine you plan to give your child. https://www.immunize.org/packageinserts/  is a good place to find them.

I find it shocking that the Dr. doesn't provide these to each patient/parent before giving a vaccine. I read them for every other "prescription" medication I take and/or give my child, why not vaccinations?

Anyway, I chose to vax my kid on schedule, and she had an "adverse" reaction. Basically her brain swelled. She presented with inconsolable crying and high pitched screaming for over 3 hours. It occurs in 1.9 % of DTaP vaccines. 

I am glad that I did the research before I gave her the vax because I knew what was happening, even though my Dr. brushed it off. I honestly believe that vaccines are safe for 95% of the population. But that means they are not safe for the other 5% - whether their bodies can't process the stuff or what.

Looking back on it, I wish I wouldn't have given her the vax. DH has to get vax on a regular basis because he is military, and he has reactions almost every time. He is lethargic for days and has headaches off and on for weeks. LO was/is also dairy intolerant.

Pedi said that reactions like that were "not uncommon" and that if the kiddo has a reaction to the first round, the reaction to the second round is usually more severe. He was fine with us not continuing vax if we felt uncomfortable. We haven't vaxed her since. He was very helpful it talking to us about what was important/going around in our area, but wasn't concerned. 

And yes, I am thankful that most people vax, and I don't encourage not vaccinating for everyone. But I do think you need to look at your family history and be aware of the side effects of the vax. Because, like anything you inject into your body, there are side effects. They might be rare, but they do happen, and I think for some people there could be indicators. 

I also think it's sad that there is not more research being done to make vax safer for everyone.