not really WM-related - but about leave

KathrynMD

I know some of you work in benefits or maybe just know about this - but how is it to a company's advantage to give sick leave and personal leave?  Especially when employees are allowed to carry-over sick leave year to year and build up big banks?

My mom never took sick leave from her job (in 20 years) and she got paid out like a full year or more of sick leave when she retired.  Every job I've had, I've had a set amount of personal leave every year and can normally carry-over a small amount 1-2 weeks max. 

madhatter2003

It's to their advantage so people don't come into work sick and get everyone else sick  ;-)

But yeah, I think places are doing away with the unlimited caps for cases like your mom since they'd have to pay out at a much higher salary rate potentially. I know here we are capped at 2x our leave per year (like I get 5 weeks, the max I can carry over is 10 w)

CrazyToast

Since I am a teacher, I'll answer from this perspective.

They give us 10 days a year for leave (most personal where you don't have to give a reason and the rest sick leave).  When you call in sick you have to give one of those "reasons."  If we don't use all the days, they carry over only as sick days.

I would say, as a school district, the district office KNOWS exactly how much leave we can possibly take in a given year.  If we go past our #, we have to pay to have a sub come in, not the district.  I think it works to their benefit.

mae0111

The ability to carry over sick leave without a cap never made sense to me, either.

I really like the way my company does it.  We don't have a limit to our sick time per se - if you're sick, just call in sick.  But if you start to abuse it, steps are taken... 5 days out in a row requires a doctor's note, and at that point you shift to STD.  More than 5 days in a 6 month period results in a verbal warning, then it progresses to written, then termination.

No one that I know of abuses the sick time in my company.  I haven't taken a true sick day in years.  If I'm under the weather, I stay home and work as much as I can.  Everyone in my department handles sick time the same way.

duchess0727

It's not - which is why most for profit companies have switched to PTO and you can use it for sick, vacation or personal time.  The only places I know of that still have sick leave are government agencies and school districts.

MBandBud

Most companies I have worked for or colleagues I have talked to have a max vacation time; sick time does not max out, but is typically not paid out upon departure.  Sure, someone could take advantage and use all their sick time, but many times continuous abusers of using sick time are 'known' and their work suffers so hopefully they are held accountable.  It is nice to have extensive sick time should you need it - I used all mine for maternity leave to supplement STD up to the 8 weeks (c-section).  Also, some organizations require a doctors note if you are out 'sick' for 3+ consecutive days.

The Federal Gov't credits employees who don't use their sick in another way:

November 2, 2009 - Last week, President Obama signed the 2010 National Defense Authorization Act.  While a full repeal of the National Security Personnel System (NSPS) dominated headlines, one largely underreported aspect of the bill - and arguably one of the most important for federal employees throughout the civil service - was a provision extending credit for accrued sick leave to federal workers enrolled in the Federal Employee Retirement System (FERS).  Under the new law, FERS employees will receive a boost to their retirement annuity based on the amount of sick leave they have saved over the course of their federal careers. Like their counterparts in the Civil Service Retirement System, covered employees will have their accrued leave factored in their annuity calculation upon retirement. Here's how it works. Once an employee becomes eligible to retire, their accrued sick leave will be credited toward his/her years and months of service. For example, before the benefit was signed into law, if a federal employee worked for the federal government for 30 years, earning a "high three" of $70,000 and garnering 6 months of sick leave, his/her retirement annuity would be 1.0% x 30 x 70,000, or $21,000 per year.  With this new benefit included, the same employee would have their annuity calculated 1.0% x 30.5 x 70,000 or $21,350 per year. That's an extra $29.17 cents in his/her pocket every month upon retirement. There is a catch, however, but only in the short term. Though the sick leave benefit will go into effect immediately, it will not do so in its fullest capacity. There will be a four-year phase in period during which retiring FERS employees will receive only half credit for their unused sick leave. Federal employees can expect to retire with the full benefit on or after January 1, 2014. "We are very pleased that FERS employees will finally be given credit for their unused sick time," said IAM-NFFE Legislative Director Randy Erwin.  "Establishing this good government benefit has been a top priority for us.  Now our retirees are going to have a little more money in their pocket because they were dutiful in their service and rarely used sick time.  They earned that benefit, and now they will get something for it."

OrangeSmoke

I think the idea of unlimited sick time carryover is going away...

Some professions are also union driven, and this could be a part of their negotiated benefits.

Another situation I can think of is in some companies, there is no such thing as paid maternity leave and you are expected to use your accrued sick time for leave (after STD, etc).  That way, the employees who've been there longer get more leave...

 

jnealet

My company was bought out and we oddly went backwards in the world of PTO.  We went back to sick/vacation time but its all used the same way here.

We did get a cap on our carry over though and it makes sense to me.  They "spun" it as us needing to take time off and making sure that we didn't come into work sick just so that we would have more of a payout if we left.

The old company paid out millions to the employees just to pay down their sicktime.  It was the right thing to do but I'm sure it hurt.

shannm

At my company, the sick time and PTO depends on the position.  I have a higher level position and am allowed 22 sick days a year.  It is not a huge issue here because they don't carry over, we are not paid out for unused ones, and people in my position are not really the type to want to take advantage of the system.  It just hurts our job performance too much.  I don't think I have taken more than 4 in the last two years including sick days for DS, so in that sense, it seems excessive to me.  BUT, I can imagine it would be a nice benefit if heaven forbid, I or someone in my family became very sick or needed minor surgery, etc..  For example, I don't get any official maternity leave so will be using all of my sick days and I am very thankful for them now! 

KathrynMD

CurlingRocks:

It is to their advantage because they keep their employees happy without providing more expensive benefits.  (I know it seems expensive to get paid for a bunch of days you haven't worked, but it is a LOT cheaper than some other benefits.)  It also cuts down on health insurance overall because people can take a day to get better early in an illness or after a surgery and don't make the problem worse or get others sick. 

Maybe I'm misreading your posting intention, but you come across as jealous of your mom's benefit package.  If you don't like yours, look for a job that has the benefits you prefer...

No, I'm not jealous - I've just never understood the logic (from a business perspective) of how that work's to a business's advantage.  Its not even particularly about my mom, I was just her as an example.

zarapipe

I work for the state of NC and we can carry over unlimited sick leave and put that towards service years and reitre early. My goal is to retire after 28.5 years of service.

itsmevkb

mae0111:

The ability to carry over sick leave without a cap never made sense to me, either.

I really like the way my company does it.  We don't have a limit to our sick time per se - if you're sick, just call in sick.  But if you start to abuse it, steps are taken... 5 days out in a row requires a doctor's note, and at that point you shift to STD.  More than 5 days in a 6 month period results in a verbal warning, then it progresses to written, then termination.

Ahhh, but see, you have short term disability.  I don't have that so the only protection I have if I get seriously sick and need time off or if I would like a maternity leave is my accumulated sick leave.

Additionally, giving an employee some kind of credit for unused sick leave encourages them to not use it just because they are going to lose it.  It's funny, where I work, the old timers who will receive credit for their unused sick leave NEVER call in sick but the younger (and presumably more healthy) employees who are on a different system which doesn't give any credit for unused sick leave use all 13 days they get each and every year.

shouldbworkin

duchess0727:

It's not - which is why most for profit companies have switched to PTO and you can use it for sick, vacation or personal time.  The only places I know of that still have sick leave are government agencies and school districts.

ditto.  pretty sure it could be recorded as a liability on their books, too.  but, in places like schools and hospitals, there is an incentive to get sick people to stay home.