catholic church and Obama care question

beachgirl1977

I have a question about the controversy between the church and Obama care. I understand the Catholic church is upset because churches and hospitals must provide BC and abortion services. My questions are

Do Catholic churches not perform abortions? or hand out bc to patients?

Do these institutions not cover BC now?

I am catholic and not planning on voting democratic next election but am having trouble picking a side in this debate. No one is making you take the pill but it also stinks to have this required by Law 

summerbrideDC

No, Catholic churches do not perform abortions.  Obama is not requiring churches to perform abortions.  Whoever told you that churches were going to be required to perform abortions is crazy misinformed. 

As for the birth control, there are a TON of organizations that are exempt from the law, I believe that includes religious organizations.   

ppants

I work at a catholic hospital. I am not catholic. Our insurance would pay for the pill, but no other forms of contraceptives. I had to pay for my IUDs 100% out of pocket. They will not pay for sterilizations or perform them at the facility.

beachgirl1977

I meant cover them for employees as part of their benefits - not perform them I thought I heard on the radio they must be covered but I could be wrong.

AggieCouple

What?  Why would the Catholic Church perform abortions??  Catholic hospitals do not perform abortions.  Is that what you mean?

Regardless of how I feel about public access to BC (I support it), I do think it's a violation of religious freedom to force religious institutions to act against their doctrines if it does not harm others.  I know one of the things certain parties want to do is force all doctors to perform non-essential abortions, which I think is... evil.

penguingrrl

The controversy is that there is a new regulation going into effect that any business providing health insurance must now provide contraceptive coverage, which until now has not been required of businesses. There is a loophole that allows religious organizations employing members of their religion to be exempt if the use of contraception goes against their religious mission.

Where the issues with the Catholic church come in are Catholic hospitals, schools, charities and other businesses, which employee large numbers of people and have no requirement that they be practicing Catholics in order to be eligible to work for them. In those cases the organization they work for (school, university, hospital, charity, etc) would be required to provide a health insurance plan that pays for contraception if they offer group coverage at all. Religious leaders and trying to get all Catholic businesses exempt from this.

It would not require Catholic hospitals to perform abortions (which they do not, sometimes not even when the life of the mother is in question). It would not require Catholic hospitals to counsel patients on the use of contraception nor would it require that they offer it. It would just require that any health insurance coverage offered to their employees include contraceptive options.

The church has two options to avoid this. They can either make being an actively participating Catholic a term of employment (therefore not employing anyone not of the faith and exempt from this rule) or they can not offer healthcare to anyone (which is not required). 

Marce921

beachgirl1977:

I have a question about the controversy between the church and Obama care. I understand the Catholic church is upset because churches and hospitals must provide BC and abortion services. My questions are

Do Catholic churches not perform abortions? or hand out bc to patients?

Do these institutions not cover BC now?

I am catholic and not planning on voting democratic next election but am having trouble picking a side in this debate. No one is making you take the pill but it also stinks to have this required by Law 

I work at a Catholic hospital. We are not allowed to give out BC to our patients. The doctors are not employed by the hospital and can, though. An abortion is not allowed and the only time it is allowed to induce an "abortion" is if mom's life is at stake or if the baby has already passed. Even then, it has to be approved by an ethics board. We do not do tubal ligation either unless another pregnancy would jeopordize mom's life and again, it has to be approved by the ethics board.

 

My insurance does not cover birth control unless it's for a medical reason, either.

praline

The issue is the health insurance Catholic organizations would have to offer to employees would have to cover birth control.  They object to that because they object to birth control.  There is an exemption for religious organizations, but there is also an exception to that exemption when a religious organization employees lots of people and services lots of people.  So, even though the church is a religious organization the health care bill requiring health insurance coverage for birth control does cover Catholic hospitals.  There is a state...Arizona maybe...or maybe Hawaii that lets religiously affiliated organizations refrain from covering birth control, but then the state gives people employed by those employers a voucher.  Seems like a compromise.  

Although on a personal level I object to the church's position and think they use strong arm tactics to keep from having to prescribe birth control or cover gay spouses.  In DC they were going to withdraw funding from all DC government affiliated programs they contributed to funding through their charities because the district government legalized gay marriage and this may have resulted in the church needing to provide the spouse's of gay people with health insurance.  

 

DevonPow

Ditto PP - this is just about having businesses (including catholic ones) that provide group health insurance to be required to have health insurance that covers birth control. This in no way forces Catholics (or anyone else who doesn't believe in BC) to actualy USE birth control or be a proponent of it in any way (counseling for birth control, etc). Purely insurance coverage that would allow someone who works for a Catholic organization (hospital, school, whatever) that is not personally Catholic (or, is, but believes in BC) to have their BC covered. That is it. I am actually really surprised by the uproar over this in large part because I have seen statistics that a very arge percentage of Catholics DO use birth control..... Regardless, if you employee people of different faiths you can't mandate your beliefs on them.

Emiliana7

DevonPow:

Ditto PP - this is just about having businesses (including catholic ones) that provide group health insurance to be required to have health insurance that covers birth control. This in no way forces Catholics (or anyone else who doesn't believe in BC) to actualy USE birth control or be a proponent of it in any way (counseling for birth control, etc). Purely insurance coverage that would allow someone who works for a Catholic organization (hospital, school, whatever) that is not personally Catholic (or, is, but believes in BC) to have their BC covered. That is it. I am actually really surprised by the uproar over this in large part because I have seen statistics that a very arge percentage of Catholics DO use birth control..... Regardless, if you employee people of different faiths you can't mandate your beliefs on them.

The problem with this is that the group healthcare plans are usually paid for in part by the employer- thus if BCP, abortions, sterilizations, etc, are covered than means the Catholic org is paying for a part of it.

Someone has to end up paying for the coverage- its not just free to be covered.

Someone on another board spouted off a statistic that 98% of catholics use birth control. That is total BS. Sure there is some percent of people who call themselves Catholic that use BC, however in the eyes of Catholic doctrine- they are sinning. Its up to the person to choose to sin (free will). The Catholic Church shouldn't be forced to help pay for what they view as a sin. Just because a person says they are Catholic doesn't mean they are a perfect Catholic (no one is).

penguingrrl

Emiliana7:

DevonPow:

Ditto PP - this is just about having businesses (including catholic ones) that provide group health insurance to be required to have health insurance that covers birth control. This in no way forces Catholics (or anyone else who doesn't believe in BC) to actualy USE birth control or be a proponent of it in any way (counseling for birth control, etc). Purely insurance coverage that would allow someone who works for a Catholic organization (hospital, school, whatever) that is not personally Catholic (or, is, but believes in BC) to have their BC covered. That is it. I am actually really surprised by the uproar over this in large part because I have seen statistics that a very arge percentage of Catholics DO use birth control..... Regardless, if you employee people of different faiths you can't mandate your beliefs on them.

The problem with this is that the group healthcare plans are usually paid for in part by the employer- thus if BCP, abortions, sterilizations, etc, are covered than means the Catholic org is paying for a part of it.

Someone has to end up paying for the coverage- its not just free to be covered.

Someone on another board spouted off a statistic that 98% of catholics use birth control. That is total BS. Sure there is some percent of people who call themselves Catholic that use BC, however in the eyes of Catholic doctrine- they are sinning. Its up to the person to choose to sin (free will). The Catholic Church shouldn't be forced to help pay for what they view as a sin. Just because a person says they are Catholic doesn't mean they are a perfect Catholic (no one is).

But, since not everyone they employee is a Catholic, those who are not Catholic should not be mandated to follow Catholic rules regarding health care. If employment in a church run institution were dependent upon being Catholic then they would be welcome not to cover contraception under this new law and in most people's eyes. The problem is that their refusal to cover a comprehensive health plan is subjecting their employees to their religious rules.

I heard a wonderful comparison recently. If the Scientologists were a large employer of non Scientologists and were providing health care, but it did  not cover chemo therapy because that goes against Scientology beliefs, people would be up in arms. But because this has to do  with birth control and we're in a country that still sees this as "voluntary" to use it can be a fight.

Zenya

penguingrrl:

But, since not everyone they employee is a Catholic, those who are not Catholic should not be mandated to follow Catholic rules regarding health care. If employment in a church run institution were dependent upon being Catholic then they would be welcome not to cover contraception under this new law and in most people's eyes. The problem is that their refusal to cover a comprehensive health plan is subjecting their employees to their religious rules.

I heard a wonderful comparison recently. If the Scientologists were a large employer of non Scientologists and were providing health care, but it did  not cover chemo therapy because that goes against Scientology beliefs, people would be up in arms. But because this has to do  with birth control and we're in a country that still sees this as "voluntary" to use it can be a fight.

I have a good amount of contempt for the catholic church.  like really I think they are a disgusting corrupt group of criminals.  Protecting child molesters.   I'm beyond happy that Ireland told them to gtf out.  

But I am not sure what I feel about this.  I kind of feel like if you want to work for a catholic organization.. you have to respect their rules.  

I mean I would never work for scientologists.  (although I'd work for them before I would the catholics!!) 

penguingrrl

Zenya:

penguingrrl:

But, since not everyone they employee is a Catholic, those who are not Catholic should not be mandated to follow Catholic rules regarding health care. If employment in a church run institution were dependent upon being Catholic then they would be welcome not to cover contraception under this new law and in most people's eyes. The problem is that their refusal to cover a comprehensive health plan is subjecting their employees to their religious rules.

I heard a wonderful comparison recently. If the Scientologists were a large employer of non Scientologists and were providing health care, but it did  not cover chemo therapy because that goes against Scientology beliefs, people would be up in arms. But because this has to do  with birth control and we're in a country that still sees this as "voluntary" to use it can be a fight.

I have a good amount of contempt for the catholic church.  like really I think they are a disgusting corrupt group of criminals.  Protecting child molesters.   I'm beyond happy that Ireland told them to gtf out.  

But I am not sure what I feel about this.  I kind of feel like if you want to work for a catholic organization.. you have to respect their rules.  

I mean I would never work for scientologists.  (although I'd work for them before I would the catholics!!) 

I see what you're saying, but in the current economy many people can't be picky about what job they get. If it were work for a Catholic/Scientology institution or be unemployed that's hardly a choice.

Zenya

penguingrrl:

I see what you're saying, but in the current economy many people can't be picky about what job they get. If it were work for a Catholic/Scientology institution or be unemployed that's hardly a choice.

True.  

Still though, idk.  I can't talk about the CC without getting angry and irrational. 

shouldbworkin

DevonPow:

Ditto PP - this is just about having businesses (including catholic ones) that provide group health insurance to be required to have health insurance that covers birth control. This in no way forces Catholics (or anyone else who doesn't believe in BC) to actualy USE birth control or be a proponent of it in any way (counseling for birth control, etc). Purely insurance coverage that would allow someone who works for a Catholic organization (hospital, school, whatever) that is not personally Catholic (or, is, but believes in BC) to have their BC covered. That is it. I am actually really surprised by the uproar over this in large part because I have seen statistics that a very arge percentage of Catholics DO use birth control..... Regardless, if you employee people of different faiths you can't mandate your beliefs on them.

All of this.  Besides there are a few ways around it, including offering private insurance where employees can add on something like BC. 

KellyD01

In our case DH is not catholic, but does teach at a catholic school. I am catholic. His insurance will not provide for bc options beyond the pill, any types of sterilization and only covers drug therapy (clomid) and the testing regarding fertility treatments, once a diagnosis of infertility is given they no longer cover anything. DH has to sign a contract every year, and in that contract he agrees to abide by the teachings of the catholic church whether he's catholic or not.