Oh embryos, not again! (embryo decline issue)

Ruthie04

We got the cryo report today...none to freeze. Just like last time, our embryos got stuck in the cavitating phase and couldn't pull out. Over 2 IVF cycles, we've had 25 embryos, 19 of which were the highest grades on day 3. We've only produced 2 embryos that became gradable blasts. Even my nurse said this is a clear indication of a problem. Her guess is egg quality. She mentioned that some people transfer on day 3 of their next cycle, but that it is risky because you just don't know. Even she has no hope for this current cycle, as she told me I could come in whenever I wanted for my beta. DH emailed the RE, but I'm not holding my breath for a real answer. I don't understand! Why is this happening!!?!?!?

I just don't know what to do! I don't think I want to cycle again with my current clinic (even though I love them). I don't even think I want to do IVF anymore. If this keeps on happening, what is the point? I hate that we were naive enough to get our hopes up again. I knew it was unlikely that we would get any frosties after transfer, but the call today was really rough. I totally broke down and had to leave work. And, by broke down, I mean sobbing hysterically with my coworker and my boss trying to cheer me up with stickers and recommendations for adoption agencies (since we work in adoption, they were trying to give me tips). I hate IF so much. My heart hurts. 

 

marieinmonaco

I'm very sorry to hear you are going through this again and about the no frosties part. If I read this correctly, you still have the 2 transferred in you that you are awaiting your beta right?  If so, I hope there is still a little bit of hope. Big hugs!

Ruthie04

marieinmonaco:

I'm very sorry to hear you are going through this again and about the no frosties part. If I read this correctly, you still have the 2 transferred in you that you are awaiting your beta right?  Big hugs!

Thanks Marie. Yes, we do still have a chance with our two little guys. But, it just sucks when your nurse doesn't even have hope .  

marieinmonaco

Ruthie04:

marieinmonaco:

I'm very sorry to hear you are going through this again and about the no frosties part. If I read this correctly, you still have the 2 transferred in you that you are awaiting your beta right?  Big hugs!

Thanks Marie. Yes, we do still have a chance with our two little guys. But, it just sucks when your nurse doesn't even have hope .  

Ruthie, I hope the 2 you have implanted are snuggling in tight! I'm sorry your nurse didn't give you hope. I'd be crushed if my nurse didn't give me hope before my beta results even came back to prove anything. It's hard to remain positive during this whole process as it is! I would still try to remain a bit hopeful, atleast until your beta test come back. I have everything crossed for you!

farmerlynda

I'm so sorry.  This is exactly what happened to me last cycle.  I am so very sorry that you got your hopes up and it happened all over again.  But -- I still have hope for the two little embies inside you!

(((hugs)))

Ruthie04

farmerlynda:

I'm so sorry.  This is exactly what happened to me last cycle.  I am so very sorry that you got your hopes up and it happened all over again.  But -- I still have hope for the two little embies inside you!

(((hugs)))

Thanks Lynda! I was actually considering paging you. I was trying to find your post about the your new clinic and the RE's theory about decline at this stage. Would you mind to share the RE's thoughts or maybe link me to your post? I just feel like I need to see some answers! 

farmerlynda

Ruthie04:

farmerlynda:

I'm so sorry.  This is exactly what happened to me last cycle.  I am so very sorry that you got your hopes up and it happened all over again.  But -- I still have hope for the two little embies inside you!

(((hugs)))

Thanks Lynda! I was actually considering paging you. I was trying to find your post about the your new clinic and the RE's theory about decline at this stage. Would you mind to share the RE's thoughts or maybe link me to your post? I just feel like I need to see some answers! 

Absolutely!  My new RE first of all has a "less is more" theory.  I'm going to be on a lower dose of stims (and like you were, I'm on Long Lupron, because obviously antagonist did not work for me.)  I will also be triggering earlier -- this RE believes that the time and dose of trigger is extremely important.  Since my eggs had vacuoles, that can be a sign of hypermaturity... rather than triggering when the lead follies are around 21, I'll be triggering with a lead follie of 17.  (Which I admit scares me a little... it would suck to go to ER and have them all be immature, but I'm trusting the RE on this one, and lord knows the last way didn't work.)

Also, this RE is a fragmentation expert.  Apparently fragmentation is inversely correlated with good cholesterols in the follicular fluid.  (More good cholesterol = less fragmentation.)  So if your embies are fragmenting, his research would suggest (note: not proven, he is in the midst of doing this research) that raising your good cholesterol levels might help.  To that end, I'm trying to increase my Niacin intake, since Niacin enhances good cholesterols in the body.  And I'm eating free range eggs, yummy cheese, and avocados, all of which I love anyway.

Hope that helps.  I'm really rooting for your LOs... they put the best ones in after all, so the fact that the others didn't make it to blast doesn't mean that these won't -- and besides, your body is the best incubator!

j-bell

I'm so sorry Ruthie.  Fingers crossed that the nurse is wrong.  I can't imagine how discouraged and frustrated you must feel.  HUGS. 

Sarah226

I'm so sorry--that is really disappointing.  Forget about that nurse, you have to hold on to hope for your two embies.  I really, truly hope you get a really great surprise on beta day.  Sending lots of sticky vibes your way.  (((((HUGS)))))

annalisel

Gosh I'm sorry. The nurse needs to learn her job better because, frankly, they don't know everything. Remember, you transferred the best two. I hope they're snuggling in good and happy.

jillychris

I am so sorry to hear about your embies, but I have high hopes that the two you transfered are snuggling on in!!! ((HUGS))

XV11Star

What a terrible deja vu situation!!    I don't have any words of wisdom, just wanted to wish you the very best with the 2 embies you have already... may they be all that you need!

 

illinigal

Hugs.

glueck

I am so sorry this is happening. Hopelessness is about the worst feeling a person can have. Be sad. be angry. Just try not lose hope. We are all here rooting for your embies to do their magic. Hugs.

lovekatespade

I'm so sorry Ruthie.  IF sucks so bad. 

Crispity

***ticker warning***

Popping over from PAIF again to say don't give up hope! Your embryos sound similar to mine (15 embryos from 2 IVF cycles, 2 blasts total, no frosties). My embryos also looked good on Day 3 and then tanked. My embryo quality this cycle was not as good as yours (I could tell they weren't great as soon as I saw the picture, and my RE gave my blast a C+ and my morula a C-). I really didn't think this cycle would work, but I'm currently 15 weeks pregnant.

I really think you still have a good chance - the nurse had no business acting like you didn't. Good luck to you! 

Reilly626

I'm sorry Ruthie! Don't let that nurse get you down. You have faith- mind over matter! Best of luck! Im not an expert but I agree with the quality over quantity- my clinic said 6-12 is the average or norm on retrieval.

Ruthie04

farmerlynda:

Ruthie04:

farmerlynda:

I'm so sorry.  This is exactly what happened to me last cycle.  I am so very sorry that you got your hopes up and it happened all over again.  But -- I still have hope for the two little embies inside you!

(((hugs)))

Thanks Lynda! I was actually considering paging you. I was trying to find your post about the your new clinic and the RE's theory about decline at this stage. Would you mind to share the RE's thoughts or maybe link me to your post? I just feel like I need to see some answers! 

Absolutely!  My new RE first of all has a "less is more" theory.  I'm going to be on a lower dose of stims (and like you were, I'm on Long Lupron, because obviously antagonist did not work for me.)  I will also be triggering earlier -- this RE believes that the time and dose of trigger is extremely important.  Since my eggs had vacuoles, that can be a sign of hypermaturity... rather than triggering when the lead follies are around 21, I'll be triggering with a lead follie of 17.  (Which I admit scares me a little... it would suck to go to ER and have them all be immature, but I'm trusting the RE on this one, and lord knows the last way didn't work.)

Also, this RE is a fragmentation expert.  Apparently fragmentation is inversely correlated with good cholesterols in the follicular fluid.  (More good cholesterol = less fragmentation.)  So if your embies are fragmenting, his research would suggest (note: not proven, he is in the midst of doing this research) that raising your good cholesterol levels might help.  To that end, I'm trying to increase my Niacin intake, since Niacin enhances good cholesterols in the body.  And I'm eating free range eggs, yummy cheese, and avocados, all of which I love anyway.

Hope that helps.  I'm really rooting for your LOs... they put the best ones in after all, so the fact that the others didn't make it to blast doesn't mean that these won't -- and besides, your body is the best incubator!

Thank you so much! If we have to do a wtf, I'm going to bring up this info with my RE. The thing that really interests me is the cholesterol research. My cholesterol has been elevated since my late teens, despite a normal BMI, exercise, and healthy eating. All of the women in my family struggle with it, but I haven't been able to take meds because of ttc. I just feel like there has to be a piece of this puzzle that is missing! 

Ruthie04

Crispity:

***ticker warning***

Popping over from PAIF again to say don't give up hope! Your embryos sound similar to mine (15 embryos from 2 IVF cycles, 2 blasts total, no frosties). My embryos also looked good on Day 3 and then tanked. My embryo quality this cycle was not as good as yours (I could tell they weren't great as soon as I saw the picture, and my RE gave my blast a C+ and my morula a C-). I really didn't think this cycle would work, but I'm currently 15 weeks pregnant.

I really think you still have a good chance - the nurse had no business acting like you didn't. Good luck to you! 

I'm so glad you replied. Your post the other day gave us so much hope. And, to hear you were in a similar situation with the remaining embryos is very helpful. Did your RE ever give you an idea of why it happened? Crispity, thank you so much for this information. Reading your post gave me a little burst of hope for my little guys and I REALLY needed it! 

Ruthie04

Thank you so much for the encouragement! I don't know what I would do without each and everyone of you cheering me on. You are the best!

Crispity

Ruthie04:

Crispity:

***ticker warning***

Popping over from PAIF again to say don't give up hope! Your embryos sound similar to mine (15 embryos from 2 IVF cycles, 2 blasts total, no frosties). My embryos also looked good on Day 3 and then tanked. My embryo quality this cycle was not as good as yours (I could tell they weren't great as soon as I saw the picture, and my RE gave my blast a C+ and my morula a C-). I really didn't think this cycle would work, but I'm currently 15 weeks pregnant.

I really think you still have a good chance - the nurse had no business acting like you didn't. Good luck to you! 

I'm so glad you replied. Your post the other day gave us so much hope. And, to hear you were in a similar situation with the remaining embryos is very helpful. Did your RE ever give you an idea of why it happened? Crispity, thank you so much for this information. Reading your post gave me a little burst of hope for my little guys and I REALLY needed it! 

You're welcome! At the time of the transfer, my RE didn't say much beyond that he was surprised that they hadn't done better. However, he still thought we had a good chance with what we had, and he told us he'd seen a lot of healthy babies born from embryos that didn't look ideal at transfer. Also, I'm sure you already know this, but MOST women don't end up having frosties, so not having any to freeze doesn't mean it won't work!

joules12

Oh, Ruthie -- so sorry that you're dealing with this and a doubting nurse!  I'm sending those two embies of your many, many sticky vibes and lots of (((hugs))) your way!  FX for great news at your beta!!!